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Vacation

Discussion in 'Child Custody & Visitation' started by JayhawkRT, Sep 4, 2020.

  1. JayhawkRT

    JayhawkRT Law Topic Starter New Member

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    Jurisdiction:
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    My ex and I have what I thought was a pretty black and white parenting plan. But this week he decided to throw me for a loop. He told me on Monday that he was planning on taking our child out of state for Labor Day weekend (this weekend). I started by telling him i didn’t want him to giving the pandemic and the CDC recommendations for avoiding travel. He told me that he gets to make the decision because it’s his weekend, which it is his weekend. I then told him that per our agreement that he was supposed to give me 30 days notice, and he instead was giving me 4. He claims this doesn’t count because it is not a “vacation” it is a “trip.” Mind you the “trip” is a 12 hour drive and 4 states away. Our agreement also says he gets a max of 14 days per year for vacation time and they exceeded it earlier this year by taking a 17 day vacation, that he also considers a “trip” because it was to see family, so it shouldn’t count. After I disagreed with him, he refused to talk with me any more about it. He emailed me a few minutes ago telling me he would be picking our child up after school today and taking him on the trip regardless of what I say.

    My question is, am I in the wrong about this? And if not, what action should I take? My lawyer is already off for the weekend, so I can’t contact him.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Zigner

    Zigner Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you. Based only on what you have said, dad doesn't appear to be entitled to take the child for a "trip" at this time.
     
  3. JayhawkRT

    JayhawkRT Law Topic Starter New Member

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    Any advice on what to do at this point?
     
  4. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

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    Based upon your recitations of past and present, NO, you appear to be correct.
    He appears to be misguided.

    You sated the case to say NO, in this comment:



    If the custody and/or visitation order(s) support your recitation, IGNORE what he says and abide by the order.

    If you ABIDE by the written letter of the order, his only recourse is to take the matter to court.

    Being that this is FRIDAY before a THREE day federal holiday, a court hearing wil never be heard TODAY.

    You need to OBEY the order and stop allowing him to DISOBEY the order!



    Your reasoning seems to be on point and coincides with the existing order.

    Who cares what he does, you shouldn't.

    If I were you, I wouldn't answer my door when he arrives.
    I might decide to NOT be home when he arrives.
    You have choices, if you wish to exercise them.
    He is NOT the boss of you, and I'm sure you had good, sound reasons when you divorced the BULLY!

    Smile, you and the child win, he loses!
     
    leslie82 and Zigner like this.
  5. JayhawkRT

    JayhawkRT Law Topic Starter New Member

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    He won’t be arriving at my house though. He is picking him up from school. And if I pick him up instead, then I am also disobeying the order since it is his year to have him for Labor Day weekend. Couldn’t I get into trouble for that?
     
  6. PayrollHRGuy

    PayrollHRGuy Well-Known Member

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    I'm going to disagree with the others here. The wording of your attachment would seem to be talking about vacations that include time in excess of the parent's normal or holiday time. I don't think that is the case here.

    If this is his holiday and the "trip" doesn't extend into your time I don't think you have a say in the matter.
     
  7. Zigner

    Zigner Well-Known Member

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    I agree with PayrollHRGuy
     
  8. Zigner

    Zigner Well-Known Member

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    You're right. For some reason, I believed that dad was going to be taking a long trip. If dad's trip gets the child back at the appropriate time, then dad is right. Mom doesn't get a say and the notification requirements don't apply either.
     
  9. Zigner

    Zigner Well-Known Member

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    Send your child with dad. It's his weekend. You can't control what he does on his weekend.
     
  10. JayhawkRT

    JayhawkRT Law Topic Starter New Member

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    Thank you for your response. So in looking at it that way, since in the summer, we alternate weeks, does that mean I can take him on a 1 month vacation? Since I’d only be taking 14 of dad’s days? Just curious for future reference.
     
  11. PayrollHRGuy

    PayrollHRGuy Well-Known Member

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    I believe, according to your attachment, yes. Just as he can. Both require 30 days notice.

    I would strongly suggest you read the document you attached to your first post.
     
  12. JayhawkRT

    JayhawkRT Law Topic Starter New Member

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    Trust me, I’ve read it many, many times. I’ve just never looked at it like that before. Especially with the verbiage about not being able to tack on a weekend, and saying the vacation must include the vacationing parents weekend.
     
  13. Zigner

    Zigner Well-Known Member

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    I disagree with you on this one. Per the attached document, a vacation may only be taken for a maximum of 14 days.
     
  14. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

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    Yes, you might create an issue for yoruself.

    So, this is what I'd do.

    Document the date and time he picks up the kid from school.
    You could do that surreptitiously or openly by taking a photo or video of the "pick up".
    When the child isn't returned by the time allowed in the order, document that with a video or photo, and document with a video or photo when he DOES return the child.

    When the child is safely in your control and care, contact your lawyer and report your findings.

    The lawyer will advise you appropriately.

    Say NOTHING to the VIOLATOR, communicate ONLY with your attorney.

    The judge will sort it out eventually, if applicable.

    In the meantime, remain calm, smile, and silent!
     
  15. Zigner

    Zigner Well-Known Member

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    You (plural) are not allowed to take a vacation that is greater than 14 days. It's pretty clear.
     
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  16. zddoodah

    zddoodah Well-Known Member

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    The purpose of the provision you provided, as it concerns the father, is to allow him to have time in addition to his scheduled visitation. That provision has no relevance to the current situation if, as appears to be the case, the contemplated trip will be completed entirely during his visitation time. Absent something to the contrary, he can do as he pleases and go where he pleases during his visitation time. Divorce decrees and custody/visitation orders often contain provisions prohibiting either parent from removing the minor child from the state without a further court order or written permission from the other parent. Does yours have anything like that?

    Practically speaking, you posted at 1:30ish on Friday afternoon. The time to act was on Tuesday, the day after he notified you what he was doing. At this point, it's too late to do anything (unless you want to commit a willful violation of the decree/order).

    No. "With 30 days' advance notice and consultation with the other parent, each parent may arrange to take a vacation with the child for a period of time not exceeding 14 days, or two seven days periods."
     
  17. PayrollHRGuy

    PayrollHRGuy Well-Known Member

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    Think about it. Assuming that no parent has the child for 14 days in a row normally how else would both parents get a 14-day vacation with the child if they didn't get to eat into the other parent's time.

    I don't know how long you have been divorced but it is arguing about this sort of stuff that makes the co-parenting harder than it needs to be and it isn't good for the kid.
     
  18. PayrollHRGuy

    PayrollHRGuy Well-Known Member

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    I may have misread the question and I don't know how their actual "normal" timeshare works out but the 14 days are allowed and as long as the additional 16 days in no way infringes on dad's time I don't see why there can't be a 30-day vacation possible.
     
  19. Zigner

    Zigner Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I suppose that's possible. Week 1, Dad's time, Week 2, Mom's time (superseded by "vacation time"), Week 3, Dad's time, Week 4, Mom's time (superseded by "vacation time"). Dad would be able to have 4 weeks.
     
  20. mightymoose

    mightymoose Moderator

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    What does your existing order say about where pickup should be on dad's weekend?
    Do you normally pick up from school?

    Is your "parenting plan" a court order, or just an agreement between the two of you?
    Does this plan stipulate that each parent must consent to the child leaving the state?
     

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