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Company 'fining' us for not being vaccinated

Discussion in 'Employee Benefits, Pensions' started by flashsplat, Sep 30, 2021.

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  1. flashsplat

    flashsplat Law Topic Starter New Member

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    Jurisdiction:
    Georgia
    Is this legal? In our open enrollment, it now states, "Any associate enrolled in a _company_ medical plan will be charged $50 monthly if they do not provide proof of vaccination and attest to their vaccination during Annual Enrollment."

    Where do we draw the line here? This is all getting WAAAY out of hand.
     
  2. Zigner

    Zigner Well-Known Member

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    I agree! It's ridiculous that companies are put in to the position that they have to take such measures in order to protect their employees, customers and overall business from people whose self-centered decisions put the health and well-being of others at (greater) risk.
     
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  3. justblue

    justblue Well-Known Member

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    43,300,000 Cases
    695,000 men, women and children dead.

    You're right, it is WAAAY out of hand. Get vaccinated. It doesn't hurt. Little or no side effects.
     
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  4. Zigner

    Zigner Well-Known Member

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    ...and those numbers are in the US alone.
     
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  5. justblue

    justblue Well-Known Member

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    Yes...I should have made that clear in my post. Thank you, Zig for pointing that out.

    World wide Cases 234,337,791
    World wide deaths of men, women and children: 4,792,002
     
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  6. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

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    What you describe hasn't been codified as ILLEGAL, yet.

    Therefore, one can presume it is LEGAL.



    You have no way, nor do you even have the possibility of stopping your current employer for penalizing you for choosing NOT to get vaccinated against the Chinese virus.

    You do have the ability to resign, seek new employment more aligned with your beliefs, join the thousands of border invaders and attempt to receive the benevolence bestowed upon them, or pay for your own health insurance, opting not to seek subsidies through your employer!
     
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  7. flashsplat

    flashsplat Law Topic Starter New Member

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    Should have known there was a hoard of libbies here.

    First off, I work from home. Secondly, this has really, very little to do with a vaccine. They have no rights to my body. If they can 'legally' force this on us, what's next? Any demands they want I have to comply or be afraid of not being able to provide for my family?

    You guys don't see the big picture. Never do. And taxes on big corps won't be passed to us right?
     
  8. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

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    Mate, where have you been?

    Those donkeys allegedly elected Puddin' Head (and his running mate, GigglesCacklesNShakes) over "Orange Pumpkin Man" (and his running mate "PenceMeatPie") by a landslide in November of last year!!!

    Me, I'm neither donkey or elephant. I'm a constitutional conservative. Yeah, not many of us left, either.




    From my seat in the peanut gallery, these things running this country can do anything they desire, and in case you haven't noticed; they're doing it!

    Welcome to my world, just sit back and focus on what you can do, then do it.

    No one is forcing anyone to get a jab.

    Those in power are simply PUNISHING anyone that opposes their agenda.

    In the history of mankind there are only two solutions for such an eventuality.

    One, vote them out of power the next time they run.

    Two, armed revolt. That ain't happening these days. Why? The 21st century US citizen is far weaker than her/his progenitors.
     
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  9. justblue

    justblue Well-Known Member

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    Feel free to continue to be part of the problem, rather than the solution. Hopefully your childish, whiney "I don't wanna" attitude doesn't cause your family to sicken and die. Do as the Judge suggested and try and find another job that is more in line with your self-destructive beliefs.
    It is beyond idiotic to choose to risk dying in a horrifying way because you think getting vaccinated will somehow support liberals/democrats/commiepinko's agenda. COVID and the DELTA variant don't give a shit what your political stance is. You are not granted some protection from it because you vote red...it will kill you, your spouse and your children with no regard to the MAGA hats on your heads.
     
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  10. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

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    In the interest of full disclosure, getting the jab is an entirely apolitical choice.

    The vaccines available to anyone who desires one, two, or three are based on accepted science.

    In addition to being an attorney, I'm also a licensed osteopathic physician.

    That said, I've had THREE of the Pfizer jabs.

    If a fourth one were ever to be available, I'd get it, too (err four)!!!
     
  11. Zigner

    Zigner Well-Known Member

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    The OP is more in the "You can't make me...you're not the boss of me!" camp.
     
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  12. Tax Counsel

    Tax Counsel Well-Known Member

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    There is nothing new or surprising with the employer's actions. It has always been the case, with a few notable exceptions, that an employer is free to set the terms of employment it will offer to employees. Employees can either accept those conditions, reject them and potentially lose their employment, or try to negotiate something else that both employer and employee can live with. That's the free market at work, and a free market is something that is very much a conservative supported position, not something supported as much by "libbies", as you put it. So I would not favor any legislation further restricting a company from exercising its rights to offer employment on its terms.

    You aren't forced to get the vaccine if you don't want it. (Though there are a lot of good reasons to get it, and the vaccine is free, so even as a conservative myself I got the vaccine. The science is sound and it just makes sense.) But there are consequences for your choices, just as in all things in life. You have the option to get the vaccine, you can not get it an end up getting dinged the extra $50 if you take company health plan, you can get a different health plan outside your employer, which may or may not be better and/or cheaper than what your employer offers, or you can find other employment elsewhere. So no, you aren't forced to get the vaccine. You have choices. If the choices aren't exactly the ones you want, well that too is part of life. We all encounter situations throughout our lives where the options we have are choices between things that are less than ideal.

    By the way, part of the reason the company is hitting you with that extra fee may well be the extra costs it will have for its unvaccinated employees. Surely it's not unfair to make those employees pay up for the extra burdens the employer has as a result of their choices, right?
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2021
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  13. justblue

    justblue Well-Known Member

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    Yeah...you're right. But either camp will increase his/her chance of death.

    My eldest DD is still getting over DELTA. She is 32, with the exception of chicken pox when she was 5and a mild cold on a few occasions she has never been sick. Perfect health and no underlining illnesses, vaccinated, fit, always masks when she goes out and she works from home...the DELTA put her in bed for two weeks and she still feels off after a month.
     
  14. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

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    I am 100% sure that a measly fifty bucks from unvaccinated employees wouldn't begin to cover cover 10% of the hospitalization (and additional healthcare costs associated with the Chinese virus).

    The average charge per COVID-19 patient requiring a hospital stay is about $73,300. That charge is the estimated cost for a patient with no health insurance. It’s also the cost for a patient seeing an out-of-network provider and whose health plan has no out-of-network benefit.

    The average estimated in-network amount per privately insured patient is lower: $38,221. The in-network amount is the amount that the providers in the plan’s network have agreed to accept as full payment. It includes both the amount the plan pays and the amount the patient pays. The amount the patient pays is based on the cost-sharing provisions of the plan.

    Costs for a Hospital Stay for COVID-19 | FAIR Health
     
  15. zddoodah

    zddoodah Well-Known Member

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    I assume this is an increase in your share of the cost of medical insurance and not an actual "fine."

    If I'm write then this is no different than tobacco users being charged a higher rate than non-tobacco users.

    Don't like it? Then get vaccinated or find a new job.
     
  16. stealthy1

    stealthy1 Active Member

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    They can "fine" you (aka charge a premium) if you smoke, etc., too. You work from home. NEVER have to meet in person with a colleague, client, etc.? EVER? Even apart from that, though, they don't want to have to deal with employees who get seriously ill and can't work. Or wrack up such huge medical costs that their insurance premiums get jacked.

    You do have choices - get the shot(s) or look for a job w/o such expectations.
     
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  17. Tax Counsel

    Tax Counsel Well-Known Member

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    It wouldn't. But the employer doesn't bear that cost; the insurer does. And as I read the OP's situation, it is not the employer's insurer demanding the extra $50, but the employer itself. If it is the insurer charging more, that would indeed be illegal as the Affordable Care Act (ACA), otherwise known as Obamacare, prohibits health insurers from doing that.

    However, while the insurer pays extra costs of the medical care for unvaccinated insureds due to the much higher risk that they have to need treatment for covid (which as you point out can be quite expensive), the employer too ends up with additional costs. For example, if the employer is large enough to be subject to the forthcoming OSHA rules employers will incur additional costs for covid testing unvaccinated employees. Employers will have higher risks of employee absences as a result of days lost due to covid for unvaccinated employees, which is costly to the employer. And the employer may need to take additional steps to protect its other employees and/or customers when it has unvaccinated employees. These were the kinds of costs I had in mind when referring to higher employer costs for unvaccinated employees.
     
  18. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

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    The OSHA fines are bound to be litigated.
    We'll know over the coming months what the courts have to say about such fines.

    It certainly isn't an insurer balking at unvaxxed insureds.

    In fact, the fifty bucks would be a small price to pay to keep my job, if I enjoyed what I was doing.

    The things that get people "wound up" amuse me.
     
  19. PayrollHRGuy

    PayrollHRGuy Well-Known Member

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    @flashsplat You possibly also have another option. Refuse the insurance.
     
  20. Zigner

    Zigner Well-Known Member

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    That has been mentioned as an option more than once in the earlier responses.
     
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