Violation of terms of visitation

[Alison Gonzalez]

Jurisdiction

Florida

Hello there,
My husband and I have temporary custody of our 3 1/2 year old grandson whom we've had in our home since he was 2 weeks old but took temporary custody of when he was 12 months old due to his mother's neglect and drug use. She is only allowed supervised visitation with no other children or adults present. Visits can only be supervised by her aunt or my husband who is the baby's grandfather. Recently she had another baby with another man (not our son, they broke up shortly after we took custody) and she and her aunt have been bringing the new baby to visitation which is against court orders. We have asked her to petition the court to allow this and she has not done so. At our final temporary custody hearing it was written that if she violated court order, my husband has the right to terminate the visit. We don't want to discourage a relationship with our grandson and his new baby half-sister but we also can't allow her to break the judge's rules. Our question is, will the judge think we're the bad guys if we terminate a visit when she brings her new baby or will he appreciate the fact that we are following the rules? My husband does not want to allow this during his supervision of visitation because he doesn't want the responsibility of watching her newborn while she interacts with her son but has no issue if her aunt wants to watch the baby when it's her turn to supervise. I should mention that they were ordered to meet in a public place, typically a park, sometimes a restaurant, and it's a 2 hour visit. Thoughts?

 

[Zigner]

Thoughts?

I cannot believe that the order contemplated a prohibition on bringing the child's newborn sibling to visitations. I think refusal, without a valid reason (beyond the obviously out-of-date order), would look bad in court. But, more importantly, it's the child's baby sibling!

...and this is coming from a guy who would only rarely suggest anything beyond following the court order.

EDIT: Why don't YOU (and/or hubby) petition the court for a change, since it's obvious that you (both) have no real reason to be concerned about the new baby being there. This IS about what's best for the child, right?

 

[Alison Gonzalez]

How is the order out of date?
We would assume that no other adults or children present means exactly that.
During our last hearing the judge, who was not our original judge, stated that what was written in our final hearing documents is very clear and should be followed precisely.

 

[zddoodah]

My husband and I have temporary custody of our 3 1/2 year old grandson whom we've had in our home since he was 2 weeks old but took temporary custody of when he was 12 months old due to his mother's neglect and drug use.

Are you the mother's mother or the father's mother?

Visits can only be supervised by her aunt or my husband

Is the aunt your daughter?

We have asked her to petition the court to allow this

Does that mean you don't have a problem with it?

we also can't allow her to break the judge's rules.

Sure you can (and, apparently, you've been doing exactly that).

will the judge think we're the bad guys if we terminate a visit when she brings her new baby or will he appreciate the fact that we are following the rules?

No one here has any possible way of knowing what some unknown judge in Florida will think about a hypothetical situation.

Thoughts?

One would need to read the order to know for sure, but it would be reasonable to assume that you and your husband, as the persons with custody, have discretion to allow or not allow what's been happening.

 

[Alison Gonzalez]

I am the father's mother. They broke up shortly after we took custody of the baby.
The aunt is the baby's mother's aunt.

 

[Alison Gonzalez]

We understand that we have the discretion to end the visit if the new baby is present but that brings me back to my original question, how would a judge look at this? Would we be the bad guys for allowing it or the opposite, would we look bad if we don't allow it?
Also, we are not indigent and therefore would have a $400 filing fee in addition to $125 per person to serve the petition. Why should we incur those expenses? We already completely support this child with no help from his mother. She had another child who she wants to bring to visitation, we feel the responsibility should be on her to amend the original order.

 

[Zigner]

Your disdain for the mother of the child comes through loud and clear. I'm not saying it's unwarranted, but you are allowing your dislike for her to affect your views of what is best for the CHILD whom you have been charged with caring for.

Let me approach this from a different angle...
Let's say you stand firm on this and cause a huge rift with mom. How do you think that's going to affect YOUR visitation down the road when/if mom gets her act together and regains custody of the child?

Bottom Line? Based only on what you've posted here, it sounds as if you're well within your rights to follow the court order and refuse visitation if mom brings the baby brother/sister to the visitation, but it's a pretty morally reprehensible action to take, in my opinion.

 

[Red Kayak]

How is the order out of date?
We would assume that no other adults or children present means exactly that.
During our last hearing the judge, who was not our original judge, stated that what was written in our final hearing documents is very clear and should be followed precisely.

If there has been a change of circumstances, then the order is out of date.

How old is the order? Does the order predate the birth of the child? Why does the order even address the issue of other children being present - are there other half-siblings?

 

[Alison Gonzalez]

Zinger, if you knew the whole story you would understand my feelings towards her. She was arrested for domestic violence against our son here at our home. She hit him constantly. We took her in when the baby was 2 weeks old even though at that time she wasn't even sure that our son was the child's father, this was later confirmed by a paternity test. In addition, she has made 4 unwarranted complaints to Child Protective Services causing them to warn her to stop filing untrue statements or face prosecution. She has provided nothing towards his care and although he has allergies to certain foods, we've asked her not to feed him these foods during her visits, she states that when she and her aunt have him she will feed him whatever she wants. The list goes on and on. So if my disdain for her shows, so be it. Without us, our grandson would have nobody. I didn't mention that she is very young and recently married a man who is young also and not the father of her new baby. We were very,very good to her when she lived with us and don't deserve the false accusations and lies she continues to tell in spite of several background checks which have been done by the judge, CPS and a Guardian ad litem.

 

[Zigner]

Zinger, if you knew the whole story you would understand my feelings towards her. She was arrested for domestic violence against our son here at our home. She hit him constantly. We took her in when the baby was 2 weeks old even though at that time she wasn't even sure that our son was the child's father, this was later confirmed by a paternity test. In addition, she has made 4 unwarranted complaints to Child Protective Services causing them to warn her to stop filing untrue statements or face prosecution. She has provided nothing towards his care and although he has allergies to certain foods, we've asked her not to feed him these foods during her visits, she states that when she and her aunt have him she will feed him whatever she wants. The list goes on and on. So if my disdain for her shows, so be it. Without us, our grandson would have nobody. I didn't mention that she is very young and recently married a man who is young also and not the father of her new baby. We were very,very good to her when she lived with us and don't deserve the false accusations and lies she continues to tell in spite of several background checks which have been done by the judge, CPS and a Guardian ad litem.

Looks like your son chose a winner to be the mother of his child. By the way...where IS your son? Why isn't HE taking care of his child?

As to her being young and married to someone young (who is not the father of her child[ren]): Kudos to that young man for taking on the role he's taken on!


Bottom line is that you've already indicated that you have no problem with the child being around during the visitations, so it's quite obvious that the only reason it's a concern is out of spite to the mother.

 

[zddoodah]

I am the father's mother.

Why wasn't your son, the child's father, mentioned at all in your original post. As asked by "Zigner," why isn't he taking care of his child?

that brings me back to my original question, how would a judge look at this? Would we be the bad guys for allowing it or the opposite, would we look bad if we don't allow it?

Asked and answered.

If you don't have a problem with having the other kid around and believe that you have discretion under the order to allow it, then I don't see any issue here that warrants further discussion.

 

[leslie82]

We understand that we have the discretion to end the visit if the new baby is present but that brings me back to my original question, how would a judge look at this? Would we be the bad guys for allowing it or the opposite, would we look bad if we don't allow it?
Also, we are not indigent and therefore would have a $400 filing fee in addition to $125 per person to serve the petition. Why should we incur those expenses? We already completely support this child with no help from his mother. She had another child who she wants to bring to visitation, we feel the responsibility should be on her to amend the original order.

No one on here can predict what any judge may rule. It's just not possible.

If you don't want the sibling there, you file to amend. If it doesn't bother you, then stop bringing it up.

Where's the father in this, your son right? Unless I missed where you explained where he is. If so apologies.

 

[stealthy1]

We already completely support this child with no help from his mother.

Have you filed for child support - from Mom AND Dad?

What, exactly, do you think a newborn will do to harm your grandson? Frankly, I would expect a judge to give you the side-eye and allow Mom to bring her newborn for her parenting time.

 

[leslie82]

Zinger, if you knew the whole story you would understand my feelings towards her. She was arrested for domestic violence against our son here at our home. She hit him constantly. We took her in when the baby was 2 weeks old even though at that time she wasn't even sure that our son was the child's father, this was later confirmed by a paternity test. In addition, she has made 4 unwarranted complaints to Child Protective Services causing them to warn her to stop filing untrue statements or face prosecution. She has provided nothing towards his care and although he has allergies to certain foods, we've asked her not to feed him these foods during her visits, she states that when she and her aunt have him she will feed him whatever she wants. The list goes on and on. So if my disdain for her shows, so be it. Without us, our grandson would have nobody. I didn't mention that she is very young and recently married a man who is young also and not the father of her new baby. We were very,very good to her when she lived with us and don't deserve the false accusations and lies she continues to tell in spite of several background checks which have been done by the judge, CPS and a Guardian ad litem.

Where IS your son? Why isn't he taking care of his child?

 

[army judge]

Without us, our grandson would have nobody.

Hmmm, every child has a mother and father.

You say the child's mother is no good.

You say your son is the baby's pappy, proven by paternity testing to boot!!!

Why must you and your husband, the pappy's parents, now raise the child?

I'm curious, much like the others, so I must ask.

Is your son serving our nation in our military?

Perhaps your son, the child's proven pappy, is serving those in need in our Peace Corps?

Is your son, perhaps, serving the underserved via some wonderful religious mission?

As I often hear on The Maury Show, mammy or pappy can't parent because he/she is AWAY!!!

Away being euphemistic speak for in the hoosegow, crossbar Hilton, the slammer, lock down towers, human dog pound, jail, or prison.


Please, do tell, why you and your husband are doing the work the child's (proven by paternity testing, not mere allegation) pappy should be doing?

 

[stealthy1]

You know, @army judge , you might be right on the hoosegow. It is interesting (to me) that OP was here as recently as last night, yet not responding to these salient questions.

 

[justblue]

You know, @army judge , you might be right on the hoosegow. It is interesting (to me) that OP was here as recently as last night, yet not responding to these salient questions.

My thought as well.

 

[Zigner]

Moron spammer already reported.