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Blah blah blah..... If you can't see the clear picture of employee harassment then am not gonna be able to help you see it. I been harassed for the past 10 years by certain people in high places, its not a secret to other employees or my union. The word conspiracy has been used by my union at other meetings regarding what they been doing to me. I ain't sitting here pretending its me who is wrong. I know who is wrong and there isn't a person in there right mind who would hear the facts and side with my company. So blah blah and blah. I will win and thats because its only right that i do!!!!
 
And harassment has a very specific meaning in the context of employment law. In everyday life, the terms gets used for any behavior which annoys us but that is not the same definition used in employment law. To have a legal claim for harassment, that harassment must be based on a legally protected characteristic. It is not at all clear that is the reason your employer dislikes you. The law does not require that they like you, treat you fairly, or not pester/annoy you, just that they not discriminate against you for specific reasons prohibited by law. Nothing you have shared in your many posts points to any of those legally protected reasons as being the reason for the way they are treating you.

Unfair does not equal illegal.
 
Ok just got done with my meeting with my manager and director of human resources and my union rep and am still suspended pending termination . There's a shocker. There claiming that i was told right away that i wasn't being suspended, therefore i had no right to refuse sitting down at the meeting. I didn't tell them today at the meeting because i wasn't aware of it until i called my sister and told her what was happening, that's when she told me she had a voice message on her phone and it recorded the whole conversation of what i said happened as opposed to the company's version of lies they made up. They claim i didn't have enough of a reason to enforce my Weingarten Rights. But my question i ask is me being uncomfortable being in a office with the person who told me 7 yrs ago while he was my manager that i'd be better off putting a bullet in my head. Shouldn't that alone be enough of a reason to enforce my Weingarten Rights at the beginning of the meeting? I even captured my union rep lieing to me on the recording saying he overheard them tell me i wasn't being suspended. That is pretty sad. When i was leaving i told my union rep i was going to the union hall his reply was don't because this time they may throw you out! How's that for my union defending me?
 
ozmets said:
Ok just got done with my meeting with my manager and director of human resources and my union rep and am still suspended pending termination . There's a shocker. There claiming that i was told right away that i wasn't being suspended, therefore i had no right to refuse sitting down at the meeting. I didn't tell them today at the meeting because i wasn't aware of it until i called my sister and told her what was happening, that's when she told me she had a voice message on her phone and it recorded the whole conversation of what i said happened as opposed to the company's version of lies they made up. They claim i didn't have enough of a reason to enforce my Weingarten Rights. But my question i ask is me being uncomfortable being in a office with the person who told me 7 yrs ago while he was my manager that i'd be better off putting a bullet in my head. Shouldn't that alone be enough of a reason to enforce my Weingarten Rights at the beginning of the meeting? I even captured my union rep lieing to me on the recording saying he overheard them tell me i wasn't being suspended. That is pretty sad. When i was leaving i told my union rep i was going to the union hall his reply was don't because this time they may throw you out! How's that for my union defending me?
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Its time to reengage your fine attorney.

Then YOU sit back and allow the professional to do his or her work.

If you play with fire, you can get burned.

When any animal is cornered, it tends to strike back.

Be very careful, my friend, very careful.

These critters have shown, and continue to show you their TRUE colors.
 
None of that is reason to grant you Weingarten rights. WR are very narrow in scope and not something to which you are entitled just because you are uncomfortable, dislike the guy you are meeting with, think/feel/know someone in the room has lied in the past, or because they intended to hand down a suspension. If it is a done deal, you aren't entitled to have anyone present. If you start screaming about your rights the second you walk in the door, especially when you are wrong, no one is going to be inclined to help you.

Once again, your employer is not a court and doesn't have to prove you did XYZ to fire you. Even with a union, the legal standard does not change. This is not criminal court. You are only entitled to due process as set out by your CBA, but in the course of that process, the employer may still determine they don't want you working there and they may still not have proven a case against you the way a court of law would have to do. Honestly, the more you drag this out and cause a fuss, the more convinced the company and union are going to be that their initial decision is for the best. No one wants a disgruntled, difficult to work with, demanding even when flat out wrong, employee. You said pages ago you don't even want to work there any longer. At this point, you are your own worst enemy. Let it go. Move on. Rebuild your work credentials as I doubt you are going to get a positive reference from these folks. Is it really worth the fight for a job you don't want?
 
Do you know how hard it is to just walk away from something that i fought to keep for so many years? To just let them win and laugh when all they did was lie to justify there behavior. I have proof that they down right lied today when they said things that weren't true. Such as i was told i wasn't gonna be suspended. This is how it went upon being called into the back office. I opened the door and asked yes you called me and was told to take a seat and i said may i ask what this is about and was told to sit down and you'll find out. I felt i had every right to have someone esle present during this discussion and stated it right away. And by the laws definition of my Weingarten Rights that once i asked to enforce my rights i should have not been asked any more questions until i had union rep with me. I that not what Weingarten Rights are for? or can any company just lie and wiggle around the law?
 
ozmets said:
Can any company just lie and wiggle around the law?
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Sadly, the answer is a resounding YES.
But, it also extends to people, governments, and politicians, too.
Its one of the reasons that DESTROYED any faith I once held in our laws, governments, and most people.

There are very few things one can depend on these days.
 
ozmets said:
I felt i had every right to have someone esle present during this discussion and stated it right away. And by the laws definition of my Weingarten Rights that once i asked to enforce my rights i should have not been asked any more questions until i had union rep with me. I that not what Weingarten Rights are for? or can any company just lie and wiggle around the law?
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Unfortunately that isn't what Weingarten rights are for and whether you think it should be how they are implemented, the law simply does not agree with you. The law does not require that you be allowed a rep just because you ask for one. It only allows one in very specific situations which did not apply here. The law does not require that the company be honest any more than it require that you be honest.
 
Am gonna right down what it says word for word on the cover of my union cba .... 1 You have the right to request the presence of a union representative during any investigatory interview you reasonably believe might result in disciplinary action.

2 you have the right not to be interviewed until your union rep is present

3 your union rep may assist you during the interview to organize and explain your facts..

now doesnt that say i have a right to enforce my Weingarten Rights by the reasons i stated?
 
If the purpose of the meeting isn't to investigate, you don't have any rights. You heard it straight from your union. Multiple times. They flat out told you that. Their rules. They know them. They enforce them. This doesn't meet the criteria. You can't take the rules which apply to a different kind of meeting and use it to stymie the process nor waste the time of the union rep.
 
My union rep wasn't there when they called me into the managers office. I went in and stated i didn't want to be interviewed without my union rep present i was then told to call my union rep which i did and told him i was called into the office and told them i wanted to enforce my Weingarten rights. And i have another employee who i told when i return from lunch that i was gonna be suspended or fired. And his reply was there harassing you and they shouldn't be. What troubles me is my union rep saying he overheard them say to me i wasn't being suspended. That is a total lie and i have on recording the entire conversation from opening the office door to the phone call with my union rep. He says he heard them say your not being suspended. So not only am i being pushed out the door from my company even my union is lying to support there story. Now isn't that illegal? If i can't win the argument with my company i feel as though my union has not presented me fairly or at all!!?
 
ElleMD said:
If the purpose of the meeting isn't to investigate, you don't have any rights. You heard it straight from your union. Multiple times. They flat out told you that. Their rules. They know them. They enforce them. This doesn't meet the criteria. You can't take the rules which apply to a different kind of meeting and use it to stymie the process nor waste the time of the union rep.
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My union flat out lied and actually was arguing that he heard over the phone them say i wasn't being suspended. I was told i was being suspended for not sitting down with the shop steward present and i replied my union rep said the shop steward isn't allowed to argue a grievance matter. That's what i told them when he suggested the shop steward be present.
 
And to make matters worse the director of relations said i was walking around telling everyone that i was gonna get them or get even. That i was gonna order items that we didn't need just to get even with them. Which none of it was true and since he said that i would assume he would have to produce those people he referred to that i told. I shouldn't have even been sent back to the same store and they even wrote down that i would be transferred to another store when i was returned to work. Then after we all signed it the union called me later that day and said i was going back to the store i was fired from. How's that for stirring the pot
 
Well if i remember correctly you said i wasn't gonna win my job back last time i was fired for what they wrongly claimed of me stealing time? I was told when they give a reason for terminating someone they have the burden of proof to prove there accusations. They would be better off just firing me and saying we don't like you, rather then make up lies they can't seem to prove. So once again am gonna have to get a real lawyer to defend me and argue there whole case is based on lies and i have the proof to back up there lies and i didn't record them without them knowing because i wasn't aware that my phone call was recorded on a answering machine. So i believe that evidence will be allowed for the fact i didn't record it behind anyones back. Or is that not allowed into evidence either?
 
Or can you give me an instance when you can enforce your Weingarten Rights? This way i know what your argument is when you say i didn't have a right according to what i stated here?
 
Employee rights


Under the Supreme Court's Weingarten decision, the following rules apply to investigatory interviews:

The employee can request union representation before or at any time during the interview.
When an employee asks for representation, the employer must choose from among three options:
1. Grant the request and delay questioning until the union representative arrives;
2. Deny the request and end the interview immediately; or
3. Give the employee a choice of:
(a) Having the interview without representation or
(b) Ending the interview.
If the employer denies the request for union representation and continues the meeting,
the employee can refuse to answer questions.
 
ozmets said:
I was told when they give a reason for terminating someone they have the burden of proof to prove there accusations.
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Whomever told you that was mistaken. There is no burden of proof. That only applies to the legal system, not employers.

Even if you have proof they lied, or they flat out admit they lied, that changes nothing legally. The employer is still free to act as they have. Whether they said they were going to do X or not, still changes nothing about your case. You are missing the forest for the trees. You acted in a way that your employer did not approved of. That is literally all that matters. They investigated. They decided on a course of action. You appealed.


Once again, Weingarten rights only apply to investigatory interviews in which discipline might result. They already investigated. You aren't entitled by any law to have someone there to find out your fate or to appeal their decision or at any time that is not part of the investigation. You can disagree all you like but that is the law.
 
Am not arguing the Law. Am arguing right from wrong! Companies certainly wouldn't be to successful if they treated there employees the way you describe the law now would they? You paint every picture black,there's no white in your vision. Am not saying they can't fire me for looking tired in the morning, they certainly can. And it was my union rep who told me its the companies burden of proof not mine. A labor layer also told me the same thing. So maybe you should read up on labor laws before you suggest your answers are all the same. Fire fire fire. I worked 20 yrs at my job and for you to just say they should just let me go for something i have every right to enforce. Did you once think maybe you should say my company should fire the person who told me i'd be better off putting a bullet in my head? Don't you think they'd be better off without him? Am only fighting for myself and i know i don't deserve sitting down with that person in a back office and having him make up lies and make it easier for him to have me fired. I rather take the path i choose and that's argue my Weingarten Rights and the reason i enforced them. If you can't see threw that then please tell me where you work because am applying there if things don't work out here. I did nothing wrong to be terminated and i certainly didn't deserve to be put back into the same store after the things that happened last month. They did it for the reason that happened, to further there case. They don't like bad publicity so maybe i'll go that route next. They wanna make up lies to terminate me then 2 can play that game.
 
ozmets said:
Am not arguing the Law. Am arguing right from wrong! Companies certainly wouldn't be to successful if they treated there employees the way you describe the law now would they? You paint every picture black,there's no white in your vision. Am not saying they can't fire me for looking tired in the morning, they certainly can. And it was my union rep who told me its the companies burden of proof not mine. A labor layer also told me the same thing. So maybe you should read up on labor laws before you suggest your answers are all the same. Fire fire fire. I worked 20 yrs at my job and for you to just say they should just let me go for something i have every right to enforce. Did you once think maybe you should say my company should fire the person who told me i'd be better off putting a bullet in my head? Don't you think they'd be better off without him? Am only fighting for myself and i know i don't deserve sitting down with that person in a back office and having him make up lies and make it easier for him to have me fired. I rather take the path i choose and that's argue my Weingarten Rights and the reason i enforced them. If you can't see threw that then please tell me where you work because am applying there if things don't work out here. I did nothing wrong to be terminated and i certainly didn't deserve to be put back into the same store after the things that happened last month. They did it for the reason that happened, to further there case. They don't like bad publicity so maybe i'll go that route next. They wanna make up lies to terminate me then 2 can play that game.
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I'm simply a guy with no dog in your fight, my friend.
I have grown to feel some of your pain, as I have for many people over the years that have been slighted by the "man".
Frankly, my friend, that's about 99% of this country (or it could be in the time it takes to blink your eyes).

I strongly encourage you to do two things: Reengage your attorney and take the entire situation to the One we BOTH have accepted as our Savior.

Remember, your mother still depends upon you and she's there to do what mothers do so well.

God bless you, brother.
 
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