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Is this an international child support enforcement case

Discussion in 'Child Support' started by beltawell, Nov 21, 2019.

  1. Red Kayak

    Red Kayak Active Member

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    I'm curious.

    Mom has established residency in Michigan.

    Why would she start in the ex-husband's state? Why can't she close the Chinese order and start fresh, petitioning for child support in Michigan, where she and the child (a US citizen) have residency, and have Dad served wherever he is?

    If the jurisdiction is established as being where the father is, that's also going to be where custody/visitation end up as well. (What? Dad's been paying a pittance in child support. He might suddenly develop an interest in his "investment" if he has to pay more.) This could be very inconvenient for Mom.
     
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  2. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

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    Seems logical to me, unless the child's and mother's citizenship is an issue.

    These days I doubt citizenship matters, unless state residency laws have such a requirement, which I suspect that no longer matters beyond a few days.

    The ChiComm order is useless, so trying a MI ploy might be the easiest approach.
     
  3. justblue

    justblue Well-Known Member

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    It seems to matter to some more than others. ;)
     
  4. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

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    It should matter to everyone, just as it would if a person unknown to you appeared in your living room claiming to be your spouse, mother, brother, sister, (FILL IN THE ALLEGED RELATIONSHIP) and wished to usurp all that a familial relationship provides, simply because the tie (as in lie) was asserted.
     
  5. beltawell

    beltawell Law Topic Starter New Member

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    Sounds like I have to start a fresh child support proceeding. Since family law matters are handled at the state level, my case must be done in the state the father lives to get personal jurisdiction over him. On the other hand, my child and I have lived in Michigan almost one year. I'm in college, and we probably stay here for many many years. We have reported tax as residents last year and established residency here.

    If I have to start a new case in the father's state, that will establish everything (support, custody/visitation) in his state. This sounds unreasonable. Also I'm afraid he might fight for custody and taking my child away as he has a decent job and I have no income at all (although my child has been always living with me ever since birth). That's also why I can't afford to retain an attorney.

    The discussions here show mixed opinions, now I really don't know in which state I should file the case. BTW, my child is US citizen, and I'm not on public assistance of any kind. Does this make any difference? Thanks so much for all those warmhearted people!
     
  6. Red Kayak

    Red Kayak Active Member

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    That is not true. Read about the Uniform Interstate Family Support Act.
    https://courts.michigan.gov/Adminis...cuments/Publications/pamphlets/focb/PSA29.pdf

    Get your court order in Michigan.

    Follow Zig's advice.

    My ex lives in another state. The enforcement bureau in my state has been able to freeze a bank account, intercept a tax refund and finally garnish his wages - even though he lives halfway across the country. They even found him when he moved.
     
  7. Tax Counsel

    Tax Counsel Well-Known Member

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    I don't know what you think you read in that publication that makes you think that the OP may pursue the child support order in Michigan, because I see nothing of the sort in it.

    Under rulings of the U.S. Supreme Court, before a state court may have personal jurisdiction over an out-of-state resident that out-of-state resident must have sufficient minimal contacts with that state such that it would put the out-of-state resident on notice that he/she might be subject to jurisdiction in that state. That is a requirement of the federal Constitution. The Uniform Interstate Family Support Act (UIFSA) does not purport to alter this rule and provide for jurisdiction over an out-of-state resident where there are no minimal contacts present. But even if it did, it should be obvious that state laws cannot override the U.S. Constitution.


    Your case is factually much different, and that matters. I assume that you obtained a child support order from a court that at the time did have personal jurisdiction over him. Once that child support order was entered, that order may be enforced in any other state under federal statutes and the Constitution's full faith and credit provision, which requires a state to give effect to the acts of others states.

    The problem here is that the child support order that the OP has is from the People's Republic of China, and as that nation is not a party to the Hague Convention the child support order is not recognized in the U.S. As a result the OP must start a fresh child support case, and to do that the case must be filed in a court that does have personal jurisdiction over the father.
     
  8. Zigner

    Zigner Well-Known Member

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    Again - in case it gets lost in all this legal factuality - the OP would be wise to reach out to the folks at MiChildSupport (MDHHS - Child Support)
     
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  9. beltawell

    beltawell Law Topic Starter New Member

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    Here is more info about my application. I submitted child support application to MDHHS-Child Support, then they forwarded it to my local prosecuting attorney, and finally it was transferred to the local court, "the Friend of the Court (FOC)". FOC sent my case to register and modify the Chinese support order to the California court, but they dismissed it due to lack of jurisdiction.

    Thereafter, I called MDHHS-Child Support, the prosecuting attorney, and the Friend of the Court many times, but they all said they can't help me on this case anymore as China is not one of the Hague child support convention countries or foreign reciprocating countries. Thanks all here for your valuable opinions!!
     
  10. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

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    As many responders have told you, FORGET the Chinese order, start a new case solely based upon you being in Michigan.

    You ignored what people have suggested, only to reap the bitter fruit of stubbornness.

    If it is possible to start FRESH, forget the Chinese order, try to initiate a new case.

    Bizarre thing about this, is what you described above (FAILURE) you already knew what you had done and failed to mention it.

    If you're seeking useful responses, you must be truthful.

    I wish you well.
     
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  11. beltawell

    beltawell Law Topic Starter New Member

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    Thanks for your help. I'm truthful. I mentioned what I have done in my very beginning question, only not mentioning where I applied to child support application or which court I asked for help.

    Based on all suggestions from so many kind people here, I know I should start a whole new case, but seems that we have mixed opinions about where to file the new case. I reviewed all opinions here, I guess I might have to file a new case in California. Thanks all for your advice!! Really appreciated so much!!
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2019
  12. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

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    Step One: Getting the First Child Support Order (Establishment)

    Personal jurisdiction over both parents required: To hear a new child support case, a court must have personal jurisdiction over both parents. (See How does a state court get personal jurisdiction over a parent? for ways a state court can declare personal jurisdiction over a parent in another state.)

    If, at the time the custodial parent first applies for a child support order, both parents and child reside in the same state, the court of that state will enter the order.

    If the whole family previously lived in the home state of the custodial parent and child, that state will continue to have personal jurisdiction over the non-custodial parent, even after he or she moves away.

    If the court of the custodial parent’s home state does not have personal jurisdiction over the non-custodial parent, the custodial parent may voluntarily submit to the jurisdiction of the court in the home state of the non-custodial parent. The custodial parent would then file his or her application for child support in the non-custodial parent’s home state.

    The laws of the state that enters the first child support order are the laws that will determine the following:

    How should the amount of child support be calculated?

    When does a child no longer need child support?

    Should parents contribute to the child’s college education?


    UIFSA Coordinators

    The UIFSA statute requires each state to provide a UIFSA coordinator to help parents who need to file interstate child support orders.

    The UIFSA coordinator knows about UIFSA procedures and will work with a parent who needs to file an interstate child support application.

    This way, a parent seeking support does not have to travel to another state to file an application for child support.


    LSNJLAW - Child Support Issues For Parents Living In Different States


    https://courts.michigan.gov/Adminis...ts/Publications/pamphlets/focb/PSA29-Text.pdf

    WHERE TO GET UIFSA ASSISTANCE IN MICHIGAN

    Contact an Office of Child Support – Support Specialist at (866) 540-0008 = When YOU do not have a support order!!!

    Friend of the Court Bureau/State Court Administrative Office
    Michigan Supreme Court

    State Court Administrative Office

    A directory of local Friend of the Court offices can be found at: http://courts.mi.gov/self-help/directories/pages/trial-court-directory.aspx
     
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  13. beltawell

    beltawell Law Topic Starter New Member

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    Thank you so much "army judge" for your great help. I'll file in the father's state to establish support order. Sorry for one more question. Since I'll ask for a new support order, should I mention the previous foreign order? I guess I have to mention that. If so, will the court treat my application as the request to modify the existing order? Then I guess they will dismiss my application the same way as before stating that they have no jurisdiction as China is not one of the Hague child support convention countries or foreign reciprocating countries.
     
  14. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

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    You can do many things.

    If I were you, I wouldn't mention anything about the invalid (insofar as the USA is concerned, Chinese order), I'd start FRESH.

    If I wanted to get child support, I'd file in Michigan and let Michigan work with California to serve the purported pappy.

    If you wish to start by contacting California authorities, you are free to try.

    Whatever California does, they'll end up coordinating it with Michigan authorities anyway, especially the Friend of the Court Agency which endeavors to collect the money (with assistance from California authorities) and disburse it to you eventually, assuming that the pappy has money which can be levied against to pay child support.

    Good luck.
     
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  15. beltawell

    beltawell Law Topic Starter New Member

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    Thank you so much, army judge. I'll do as you instructed and hopefully will report my progress here later. Much appreciated!!
     
  16. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

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    You're most welcome, and I wish you successful effort.

    I hope you get the money from the runaway father.
     
  17. beltawell

    beltawell Law Topic Starter New Member

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    I'm so appreciative for your great helps and blessing, army judge. Wish you all well!! Keep in touch...
     
  18. beltawell

    beltawell Law Topic Starter New Member

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    army judge, I'd like to report the progress of my case. I applied a fresh case with Michigan. The worker at child support suggested me file in California as the father has nothing related to Michigan state (He never lived here or visited the child here). So I filed a brand new case in California without mentioning Chinese order at all. The case is under investigation.

    I'll report here later. Happy New Year, and thanks a lot!
     
  19. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

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    These bureaucratic things take time, but it appears you're off to great start.

    Happy New year, and I'm wishing that you'll prevail and the state of CA will make the "deadbeat daddy" pay his part towards your child's support.
     
  20. beltawell

    beltawell Law Topic Starter New Member

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    army judge, thank you so much for your blessing. I'll post the results here later.

    Happy New year, and all the best to you and your family!!
     

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