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I want a "postnuptial", but the content of the postnuptial, can I still get it?

Discussion in 'Divorce Mediation' started by Shanghai1930s, May 29, 2017.

  1. Shanghai1930s

    Shanghai1930s Law Topic Starter New Member

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    Jurisdiction:
    California
    I'm sorry I'm Chinese and English is my third language, so please forgive me for my not perfect grammars.
    Question about postnuptial in my situation: Both me and my husband are U.S citizenship, live in California, and married. No children.

    Backgorund: As short as I can sum it tup, I grow up in my whole childhood seeing my parents unhappy marriage. Seeing my father never love my mother, he even admit it himself that the reason why he stay married to my mother is because he doesn't want HALF of his financial/bank accounts, assets, retirement/pension go to my mom if divorce.

    I grow up sworn that I will never put myself I will never put myself in this situation where the man I married to stay married to me solely because he doesn't want Half of his everything "financially" will go to if divorce.
    I know this fear is stem from my childhood, it a "Me" problem.

    But in order for me to be 100% fully happy and have the peace of mind in my marriage that my husband stay married to me is because he truely still loves me, and not because he afraid he will lost half his bank accounts, assets, retirement to me if we divorce. I want and need a "postnuptial".

    I want to sign a postnuptial state that if our marriage end in divorce, I'm willingly to walk out EMTPY HANDED. I will NOT take half of my husband 500K in his Cash liquid savings, or his six-figures in his Retirement savings, or his assets, or his pension whatever. He does make decent income, he make six-figures.

    From what I understand is the law can't force me, if me the--the "wife" willingly and chose to walk out EMTPY HANDED, I refuse to drag my husband to court to fight for what me--the wife entitle to if we divorce. There no laws that say I have to drag him to court to fight for half his money/assets righ? I can just sign the divorce papers and be done with. Correct?
    But I still want to get a postnuptial on this, to have it in paper that this is what I will do if divorce.

    From what I know a postnuptial is an agreement a couple agree to what happen if the marriage ends in divorce right? I just not sure if I can get a posnuptial with the content like this. Yes, I know it silly. I'm sorry for it not making much sense. But it something that I need in order for me to feel secure. I know it stem from my childhood, it a "Me" problem. But I need this in order for me to feel secure and 100% happy in my marriage.

    Thank you Mr./Mrs. for your help answer my question.
     
  2. hrforme

    hrforme Active Member

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    I'd get some therapy prior to making this agreement. You seem to know why you are insecure, but now you need behavior modification to change your insecurity. This agreement will not make you feel secure or 100% happy in your marriage. If anything, at some point, it will probably end up making you very discontent. Instead work on your marriage rather than planning/guessing for a time where it will not be good.

    It is not smart no matter how much you love him no and think that you would be willing to leave with nothing so that he won't stay in an unhappy marriage. What if you have kids? Would you not want them to be protected and you to have some assets to furnish a safe place to live? Do you not deserve some of the family income (even if you didn't directly earn it, you will have made it easier for him to do so by dealing with family needs such as the house, kids, etc)

    Don't sell yourself short.
     
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  3. Shanghai1930s

    Shanghai1930s Law Topic Starter New Member

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    I'm sory, I dind't come here for therapy advice or relationship advice. How I deal wih my marriage money/assets is between me and my husband. Just like how you deal with your marriage is between you and your husband.
    I don't need anyone to tell me what I can do or not do in my marriage if it end in divorce. Just like I don't go lecture you on how you should deal with your marriage if it end in divorce.
    And I don't need lecture tell me what I want to do is smart or not. It is MY life. Again, it is MY rights to walk out EMPTY HANDED if I chose to do so. I'm his wife, and it my marriage.
    I come here for a Law question. Hoping to see Mr/Mrs Mod or Admin can help answer my "Law" question. Thank you.
     
  4. mightymoose

    mightymoose Moderator

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    You are correct. Although you may be entitled to a certain portion of assets, there is nothing that requires you to claim them. If there were to be a divorce you could simply part ways uncontested. It would take an active effort on your part to obtain those assets.
    Yes, you could make a postnuptial agreement, but even bringing up the issue could be very delicate.
     
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  5. Shanghai1930s

    Shanghai1930s Law Topic Starter New Member

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    Thank you, please please help me with few more questions.

    So a postnuptial is not neccessary in my case right? Due to I chose to refuse to claim what I'm entitle to as his "wife" in the years I married to him.
    For example half his 500K in savings. Half his six-figures in retirement. His six-figures income. Half his assets.
    I believe spousal support is 30% of his income, which will give me decent money due to he make six-figures income.
    ...............
    But if I refuse to take ALL of that above, I can just sign the divorce paper and be done right? There no laws in the U.S. that can force me to take half his bank accounts right? Or force me to get spousal support right?

    I'm sorry, this is first marriage for both. And we both not Americans. I not too sure about the laws in the U.S.

    The thing I ask about "postnuptial" here because there is a section in there that might just not make the postnuptial valid, is this section: "Fair"-- as in it must not be so one-sided favorite a spouse. In my case, it very on-sided you know. I'm protecting my husband financial 100% here, there nothing protect myself. I voluntary give up everything that I'm entitle to in the case of divorce.
    But this is what I WANT and what I WILL do. If the postnuptial won't work, is there any papers "law" wise that I can sign to state that I am willingly to walk out Empty handed when divorce?.

    An one last question, there no laws in the U.S. that will automatically grant me HALF of his everything "financially" when divorce right? I have to get him to court for it right?
    But even if the laws force me and give me my half, I will just hand it All back to him, simple as that.
     
  6. adjusterjack

    adjusterjack Super Moderator

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    Here are the answers to your law question.

    1 - You don't need a postnuptial agreement to be able to walk away from your marriage without taking anything from your husband. You just do it.

    2 - If you want a postnuptial agreement that says that you call a lawyer and pay him to write it up and then you and your husband sign it.
     
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  7. mightymoose

    mightymoose Moderator

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    Really, it does not seem to be an appropriate use of a postnuptial.
    You can simply discuss your intent with your husband and be done with it.
    However, even raising the issue could be an indicator that trouble is ahead. If you still value your marriage be careful how you proceed.
    No, the law does not force you to do anything. If you want nothing you simply take nothing.
     
  8. Transcon

    Transcon New Member

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    Post #3 is not written by author of post #1. Something fishy here. Is that you husband looking to get your wife to sign away her rights?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  9. Shanghai1930s

    Shanghai1930s Law Topic Starter New Member

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    All 3 posts above is me write. We not getting a divorce, my husband love me very very much, as so do I also love him.
    It just that is my personality--I'm WILLING to walk out Empty Handed if divorce. There 7 billions people in this world, and nobody is the same. I really want this "Postnuptial". I need to have this peace of mind, or else I can' tbe 100% happy in my marriage or be a happy wife.

    From what I know a "postnuptial" is an agreement of a couple of what would happen if one spouse die or if end up in divorce.
    The ason why I ask my question in a Law forum because I wasn't sure if the content of my postnuptial would be valid. Due to one of the requirement for a postnuptial is: "Fair"--as in it must not be so one-sided favorite a spouse.
    In my case, it very on-sided you know. I'm protecting my husband financial 100% here (this is the whole point, I WANT to protect my husband), there nothing protect myself. I voluntary give up Everything that I'm entitle to in the case of divorce.

    My husband has me as JOINT on ALL his bank accounts, including his 500K Saving accounts. My name is on there along with his his. I have full access to it because he has me as Joint.
    He also has me as the Primary beneficiary on his 401k, IRA, retirement. Which he has six-figures in each of his 401k and IRA.
    And his Life Insurance, he has me as the Primary beneficiary also.
    He also make six-figures income.

    I told my husband if God forbid something happens to him. I mean by laws his Retirement/pension will go to me because I'm his wife.
    Also his 500K Savings. And any other bank accounts of his will go to me, because he has me as Joint, and also I'm his wife.
    .......
    If God forbid something happen to him. The 500K in his Savings, including any other banks of his. And his Life Insurance including, and his Retirement/pension. Overall, ALL his money/assets. It will go to me because He has me as Joint, primary beneficiary, and I'm his lawful wife. Right?
    So I have the rights to do whatever I want with it.

    [[[ I told him ALL his money, I want to make it into monthly payment each month a certain amount go to his Mom. To pay for all his mom living expenses, from rent to all her utilities, to all her healthcare. And to all her personal expenses and necessaries.
    As a daughter in-law, I have my duty to take care of my mother in-law in her old age. This is a thing in Chinese culture. And it something I want to do for the woman that gave birth to my husband--his mom.

    If one day my husband mom (my mother in-law) pass away, due to her old age. The remaining money left in his savings/bank accounts, whatever. I will give it monthly to his older sister and her children (which are my husband niece and nephew). ]]]

    This is what I want if God forbid something happens to my husband. He does work a hard and dangerous job. And his job part of why he also bought Life Insurance, despite he already have 500K in his savings, not counting his retirement/pesion.
    I don't know if there is a law/lawyers that can take care of something like this? Like a "will"? Like what will be done to his money if one day he dies.
    I don't know who going to die first, it could be any of us. But just in case if God forbid something happen to him first. The above is what I want to do. I didn't married him for his money. I have his love, he loves me is all I need his lifetime.

    I don't care the money in his bank accounts, or his assets, or his retirement/pension. I will give it all to his mom, divided into monthly money for her, until she pass away. Then the remaining will go monthly to his older sister.

    As for children, I personally don't want children (by choice). There won't be children in the picture.
    And I'm sorry, if we end up in divorce. I'm more than capable of taking care of myself. It call "work". I'm more than capable of work and support myself.
    I don't need spousal support or Half of my husband bank accounts to survive if we divorce.

    And in case of divorce (which we not divorce). But the whole point of a "postnuptial" is in case if this marriage ends in divorce.
    I really want to get this postnuptial. But I not sure if it would consider valid due to it seem to be very one-sided, that I'm willingly to walk out EMPTY HANDED when divorce.
    If I can't get a postnuptial on this, is there any writing by "law" that I can get?
    I know that I don't need postnuptial, I can just walk out empty handed and take nothing. But I need something in writing, a paper by law. Or else I will not have my peace of mind in this marriage.

    I'm Chinese. I'm not American/westerner. My husband is also not American/westerner.
    I'm really not sure about the laws in the U.S. if there is a paper or something in writing, IF in case I can't get a postnuptial to be valid.
    As for what would happen if God forbid something happen to my husband. Is a "will" needed if I want to do the above in the bracket?

    I'm sorry I know it hard to understand me due to my Chinese culture. But I'm not coming here for a lecture on what me--the wife should do if my husband dies or if we divorce. My main concern here if a postnuptial would be valid. And what do I need if I want to do the above in the bracket to my husband money if he dies.

    I can contact a Chinese lawyer, but they probably will charge me before answer my questions. And my personality, I don't want to use a penny of my husband money unless it an absolute necessary. This is why I come here first, hope others who know about the U.S. laws can help answer my questions. Thank you.

    ------------------------------

    ETA: I said above in the third post of mine (post #5 in the thread). This is FIRST marriage for Both. I am his FIRST wife. And he is my First husband.
    And to answer your question.. My husband want to leave his EVERYTHING to me--his wife when he dies. Even if we set up a will/trust right now, it still Me that wants to leave his money to. He said it himself, he said I'm his 'wife', his everything is mine including himself and ALL his money. He said it me that he will leave all the money to if he dies.
    But it me--the wife want to leave it to his mom and his sister.

    That is fine then, if the law won't let me sign the postnuptial. BUT remember this, the damn law can't force me to take HALF my husband money if we divorce. I will walk out empty handed and nothing the damn law can do to me.
    And sorry, I will ignore any comments that comment about my culture, or try to lecture me of what I should or should not do in my marriage, or do to my husband money if he dies. Or comment about my culture. So ignore I will do. Thank you.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2017
  10. hrforme

    hrforme Active Member

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    you sound very brainwashed and I have to doubt a court would uphold something that so favorably sides with the other spouse in every way regardless of your beliefs and culture. Just by signing such, you would seem by most to be mentally incapacitated (especially when doing so AFTER the marriage that protects your rights) . I don't know any lawyer that would counsel you that this plan is a good idea.

    But yes, your husband can leave everything to his mom and his sister. You can sign forms with the 401k/IRA/pension plans that you as spouse are waiving your right to be his beneficiary. If he 100% makes it his mom, and she received 100%, she will be able to decide in her will where her estate goes. He can't generally make that decision after she gets the money. So she could choose not to give it to the sister's family.

    Your husband should look into setting up a will/trusts to make sure what HE wants to happen with his assets at death.

    You are very foolish to totally take your rights out of the picture. You can work now, but what if you become disabled? You never know what tomorrow might bring. You havent' mentioned if you have any assets of your own. If you plan to accomplish this, I would highly suggest building some up for unforeseen personal circumstances.

    To me, this does absolutely nothing to show your love to him. I am curious -- are you his first wife?
     
  11. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

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    Okay, here are some sites where YOU can create a postnup, and I'm sure he will eagerly, happily sign it for you.
    Now, your problems are solved, good luck, live long, be happier.

    Be advised, some courts in CA will reject a postnup.

    Will yours be rejected?

    You won't know until a divorce is in the offing.

    So, pretend it won't, live long and prosper.

    ...
    ...
    Create a California Postnuptial Agreement - A People's Choice
    ...
    ...
    Will A Postnuptial Contract Really Protect You? - Lawyers.com
    ...
    ...
    California Post Nuptial Agreement Requirements
    ...
    ...
     
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  12. Shanghai1930s

    Shanghai1930s Law Topic Starter New Member

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    THANK YOU Sir Moderator for help answer my "Law" question. This is what I come here for. I didn't come here for other women to lecture me or use personal attack against me, calling me brainwashed, and mentally incapacitated. And how my Chinese culture is, that is for me--a Chinese to deal with.

    As for I want to give ALL my husband money/assets and retirement to his Mom after he dies. That is my rights to do so. I'm his lawful wife, and after he dies, ALL the money go to me. So I use it as I see fit, that including give it ALL to his mother if I want.
    I believe there no laws in the U.S. that can interfere with how I deal with the money, especially my husband leave the money to "Me". Correct me if I'm wrong on this.

    And as for I chose to walk out EMPTY handed after we divorce, that is also my rights to do so. Even if my postnuptial wont' be valid. Keep in mind this, the damn law can't force me to take HALF my husband money if we divorce. I will walk out empty handed and nothing the damn law can do to me. Correct me if I'm wrong on this.
    So neither way, I get to have it "My" way.

    Thank you for the links Sir. I feel relief after read this.
    POST NUPTIAL REQUIREMENTS
    The post nuptial agreement must be in writing and signed by both parties. Both parties should be fully informed about the marital property, and should be represented by independent counsel. Other than these general requirements, a married couple is free to negotiate any terms they would like.

    Again, thank you Sir. I will find a Chinese lawyer, due to my English is not my native language.
    Please feel free to Close this thread as I have no other question, except this one last question.
    ......
    There no laws in the U.S. that can FORCE me to take my husband HALF everything "financially" when divorce right? As in there no U.S. laws that state: They will automatic grant me HALF of my husband financial, and force me to keep it. Prohibit me from HAND it all back to him right?
    (Because even if the laws automatic grant it to me. I will hand it all back to my husband).

    I ask this question, because I must know, just in case the postnuptial won't be valid due to I'm WILLING to walk out empty handed. It funny, how this is the freedom country USA, and I'm not even allow to walk out empty handed, lol

    That is all my questions, thank you Sir.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2017
  13. hrforme

    hrforme Active Member

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    realize that there could be US (and possibly state) tax law implications and limits on what can be given tax-free from one person to another person. So if you inherit and want to give it away to another person, seek tax advice.
     
  14. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

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    There are easy ways to accomplish something, there are hard ways to accomplish something.

    Let's say you don't get to create a prenup.

    You end up with your husbands assets.
    You don't want the assets.
    You want his mother to have the assets.
    You simply GIVE (as in GIFT) the assets to his mother.
    However, it would be easier for your husband to create a family trust.
    He and you can discuss this trust with a lawyer who speaks Chinese.
    This NOT about any culture.

    This country is made of many cultures, but ONE set of laws.

    What you're trying to do might work in China, but it must be done differently in the USA.

    What if his mother dies before your husband dies?
    What if you die before either of them?
    No one of us are promised to live 70 years, 80 years, or even 100 years.
    Plus, as we age, our faculties deteriorate.

    A family trust is far better than what you're trying to do your way.

    You can do it, that way, but HALF (maybe more) will be stolen LEGALLY by the state and federal government.

    The right family trust will allow him, you, and his mother (and any others you both wish) to do what you want and LEGALLY keep more money.

    I served this nation in her army for 30 years.
    I fought in her wars.
    This country isn't as free as many think it is.
    Countries that you think aren't free, are far freer than the USA.

    No country is perfect, because no person, race, religion, or nationality is perfect.

    Anything created by a human is flawed.
     
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  15. Shanghai1930s

    Shanghai1930s Law Topic Starter New Member

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    Thank you Sir, right now at this moment as a daughter in-law, I do help my mother in-law. No need to wait till my husband dies, I already help her now. Right now I pay for my MIL Rent and all her utilities. I do this out of my own WILLING, and I been doing it to help out my MIL whom is at the old age (she is at the age 63).
    And I WILL continue to help her even if one day my husband dies, as long as I am still his "wife".

    Thank you, I will look into a "family trust". My husband said it so many times, if he dies, All his money and everything he has. He wants it ALL will go to me.. He said he give it all to me, because he wants me to continue live a comfy life not have to worry about money just like when he alive, (when one day he dies).
    I told him if he dies, the money I will give it to his mother. And then to his older sister. (They are all has left as blood family. His dad deceased).

    So if we create a 'family trust', he still said he will leave all his money to me (I understand him, I'm his wife, I know how he is. He will said he leaves it all to me, as he has said so many times).
    So it in the family trust, it need to say that me--the wife willingly and want to use the money for his mom after he dies? My husband give me all the rights to how I will use the money of his after he dies.

    If his mom die, the money I will give to his older sister.

    Regarding divorce. Not saying my husband doesn't love me, but I'm just being upfront here, any marriage can lead to divorce. This is why I want a postnuptial. And I been bottle up about this postnuptial for so long. I been concentrate on being a wife, being a daughter in-law. But I don't want to keep bottle up this postnuptial anymore. I want to get it done, or else I won't have the peace of mind.

    But since the postnuptial might not be valid.
    Ths is why I want to know the answer below:
    There no laws in the U.S. that can Force me to take my husband HALF everything "financially" when divorce right? As in there no U.S. laws that state: They will automatic grant me HALF of my husband financial, and force me to keep it. Prohibit me from HAND it all back to him right?
    (Because even if the laws automatic grant it to me. I will hand it all back to my husband).
    I must know the answer to this question, just in case the postnuptial won't be valid due to I'm WILLING to walk out empty handed.

    My question is if one day we divorce. The laws won't automatic grant me HALF of my husband financial right? Correct? I can just sign the divorce paper and be done with right?
    Even if the laws automatic grant my half (which I don't think automatic is how it work). But the laws CAN'T Force me to keep it right? I can just HAND it all back to my husband right?

    If you can help answer me that question above please Sir. And I will look into more about the trust. The trust need to be done. I will find a Chinese lawyer, due to BOTH me and my husband we not Americans/westerners. And English is also not my husband native language, same with me.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2017
  16. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

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    It'll be much easier when you meet with a good lawyer who reads, writes, and speaks Chinese.
    There are many non-Chinese lawyers that can do that, so be sure you find the rIGHT lawyer that you can trust, and who will do what you wish.

    Please return and let us know how you're getting along.

    I think you'll be just fine.
     
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  17. Shanghai1930s

    Shanghai1930s Law Topic Starter New Member

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    What do the U.S. laws say on this Sir?
    There no laws in the U.S. that can Force me to take my husband HALF everything "financially" when divorce right? As in there no U.S. laws that state: They will automatic grant me HALF of my husband financial, and force me to keep it. Prohibit me from HAND it all back to him right?
    (Because even if the laws automatic grant it to me. I will hand it all back to my husband).
    ......
    The laws CAN'T Force me to keep it right? I can just HAND it all back to my husband right? I'm allow to hand it all back to my husband right?--If I was force to take half of his money/assets if we divorce.

    Thank you Sir, for sure the "family trust" will need to be done. I will go find a Chinese lawyer, since English is NOT me or my husband native language.
    The family trust need to be done for sure, in order for me to have the peace of mind and fully be happy in this marriage. Thank you again Sir.
     
  18. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

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    That is the beautiful part about this.
    NO, the law can't force you to take the $1,000,000,000 your husband has, the 20 mansions, the fleet of Bentleys and Maybachs, his four G5 jets, the railroad he owns, his 12 gold mines, the one diamond mine, and his 500 oil wells.

    You can say, "No thanks, I don't want it."
     
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  19. leslie82

    leslie82 Well-Known Member

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    You come on an Internet forum you're going to get things you may or may not like to hear. That reply was actually very valid. Don't post things in public forums if you don't want to hear the truth (if you're the wife). Yes you can walk out empty handed. Someone told you that you can either just do it or call a lawyer about a postnuptial. Read the disclaimer on this page to see that not everyone on here is lawyers and that you can't get legal advice on this page.
     
  20. leslie82

    leslie82 Well-Known Member

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    What the hell are you talking about? You have some issues. Most lawyers give free consultations in America. Find one that does. You also should look up therapists in your state.
     
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