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Are IV-D Obligations a Mandatory Court Order or Voluntary Agreement ?

Discussion in 'Child Support' started by T-FourDee, Feb 26, 2021.

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  1. T-FourDee

    T-FourDee Law Topic Starter New Member

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    Jurisdiction:
    Oklahoma
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    Last edited: Feb 26, 2021
  2. Zigner

    Zigner Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I'm sure they are.
     
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  3. T-FourDee

    T-FourDee Law Topic Starter New Member

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    Which one, voluntary or mandatory ?
     
  4. T-FourDee

    T-FourDee Law Topic Starter New Member

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    Just to be clear, not the Enforcement Order that a comes from falling behind on payments (past due), but the initial Obligation after paternity is established...

    Is it voluntary or mandatory ?
     
  5. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

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    Whether a person voluntarily agreed to the order or a judge decreed same, the obligation exists, notwithstanding the way it was created.

    Think of it this way.

    Joe and Ted commit a crime.

    Joe pleads guilty to the crime in open court after being admonished by the judge.
    Joe, nevertheless pleads guilty and subsequently sentenced to five years in a state penitentiary.

    Ted pleads not guilty, has a trial, whereupon a jury convicts Ted of the crime.
    Ted is sentenced to a state penitentiary for four years.

    One voluntarily plead guilty, one was adjudicated guilty after a trial.

    Same result, some form of incarceration, different paths to the same result.
     
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  6. adjusterjack

    adjusterjack Super Moderator

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    Mandatory. The Child Support Department has the statutory authority to make such rulings when the custodial parent is receiving state aid.

    There are unpleasant consequences for any non-custodial parent who disobeys the order.

    What does that federal statute (taken out of context) have to do with the part of the order you posted?
     
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  7. Zigner

    Zigner Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure it depends on the reason for asking.
     
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  8. T-FourDee

    T-FourDee Law Topic Starter New Member

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    Child Support is a civil matter... Operates by operation of law, civil procedure. Your example was a criminal scenario...that is like comparing apples to oranges.

    The Obligation is a voluntary agreement to commit to payments (refer to the citation pictured).

    It is only enforceable when the Obligor falls behind on payments, and the CSA files a lawsuit to collect the past due amount.

    There are civil procedures that must be met before an Enforcement Order may be granted...

    Particularly serving the Obligor proper Notice and Notice of the Child Support Lien to gain Personal Jurisdiction over the Obligor, and attaching (filing) the lien to the Enforcement Order and with the County Court Clerk, and a non jury trial for the Obligor to state his defense.

    Once these procedures are met, the judge now has authority to grant the Enforcement Order for collection...

    Once the Order is granted, the CSA now has the authority to income withholdings, bank levies, federal and state tax refund interceptions, Contempt citations, and incarceration.

    These remedies have no authority without the lien attached to the Enforcement Order and the Enforcement Order is granted by a Judge...

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    Last edited: Feb 26, 2021
  9. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

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    You are free to do anything you wish to do.

    You are free to believe anything you wish to believe.

    You are free to disbelieve anything you wish not to believe.

    If you think you need not pay child support for a child that genetic testing and science has pegged you as the baby's male progenitor, I suggest you prepare for a reckoning.

    Good luck.
     
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  10. T-FourDee

    T-FourDee Law Topic Starter New Member

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    Screenshot_20210226-153045_Adobe Acrobat.jpg
    That is law, I can provide legal statute if you want validation.

    Please don't jump to conclusions, my debt and payments aren't owed to my child, it's to the State...

    I have a serious inquiry here and really need help...please be professional and hear me out...
     
  11. justblue

    justblue Well-Known Member

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  12. Zigner

    Zigner Well-Known Member

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  13. justblue

    justblue Well-Known Member

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    That's one way to put it...I saw his convo with Eek, down the street and, I have a different descriptive word I would use. ;)
     
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  14. adjusterjack

    adjusterjack Super Moderator

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    That's right. Now that we have the back story from the other site I can tell you that you will always owe the debt to the state and you can either figure out how to pay it or grow old and die owing it. The state's not going to care what you say about process service. Even if they did believe you weren't served all they have to do is serve you and you'd still owe the money.

    We are being as professional as possible. Your inability to believe/accept what you are being told is your problem.
     
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  15. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

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    The State of Oklahoma (uses her taxpayers' money to support kids in financial need) if the male and female progenitors can't or won't honor the obligation to support their progeny.

    The state simply collects the money and transfers MOST of it to the custodial progenitor after extracting a fee to ensure that the noncustodial progenitor pay her/his fair share in raising the progeny.

    The state spends far more on the offspring than what is collected from the noncustodial progenitor.

    The custodial progenitor gets much less than what it costs to support the child and care for her/him 24/7/365!!!

    I rarely get involved in family law cases because I don't enjoy the emotional outbursts often displayed.

    I've heard far too many when I sat as an active Texas District Court Judge.
    I'd rather try a murder, rape, or other felony case over a family law related case.

    I can only repeat what a child psychiatrist once said under oath: "If two parties engage in sexual relations and wish to avoid later back and forth recriminations about paternity, both parties might ensure they apply proper prophylactic devices, medications, etc... BEFORE engaging in said activity."

    You can't unring a bell, OP.

    Going forward you can be more proactive and protective of what you do when it comes to sexual intercourse.

    As far as you beating the burden of child support or taxes, many have tried, none succeed and remain alive or retain their freedom.

    I wish you well, mate, as you struggle to understand that even the mightiest among us can't move mountains or cheat the government from extracting it's pound of flesh.

    Ever ask yourself why any government deserves a percentage of your wages, or a percentage of the purchase price of most any commodity you buy with some of your wages?

    Kings, Emperors, Sultans, Dictators, and their ilk avoided what elected officials have been doing in this country ever since Lincoln initiated his Revenue Act scheme in 1861, decades before the 16th Amendment gifted us all with the "income tax".
     
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  16. T-FourDee

    T-FourDee Law Topic Starter New Member

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    First of all, I was mouthy with Eek up the street because she, just like the rest of you, was jumping to conclusions and giving her personal opinion while degrading me lol she was disrespectful first... If your going to tell the story, tell the whole story...

    Second of all, as I stated before, "Child Support" operates by operation of law, its a civil matter and must follow civil procedures in order to establish a valid Enforcement Order in order to legally use enforcement remedies against a person...One of those procedures is gaining Personal Jurisdiction, which is gained by proper service of process... Being improperly served or not served at all, is not unusual nor uncommon. There is plenty of case law showing civil cases of debt collection closed do to improper service or no service at all, especially after a Default Judgment is granted against a person who was not served... Whether it is "Child Support or not, citizens are protected by due process safeguards under the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment... Non Custodial Parents have this right just as much as anybody else... Child Support is not immune from Civil Procedure and Non Custodial Parents have a right to proper service of process and a right to seek relief from injustice... @army judge you claim to be a Texas District Court Judge, your bond and oath is to protect the rights of citizens, by misleading me and telling me where I have no right, when I actually do, is violating you oath of honor...

    As far as the statement "Your compensating the taxpayers dollar for supporting your child"... Whoa, let's press the brakes for a second... First of all, as a employed citizen of the United States and the State of Oklahoma, am I not a taxpayer myself ? As a "taxpayer supporting someone elses child", would I not be supporting my child and every other fatherless child in Oklahoma off of MY taxpaying dollars ? Or did "Child Support" take away my status as a US Citizen, exempt me from taxes, and take away my civil rights ?... Most importantly, did I ask to be an absent parent and ask the State to step in for me ? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO...

    I came here looking for actual honest and legal advice about a fraudulent matter, but because I'm a non custodial parent and it involves a child support case, I'm a "deadbeat trying to get out of the responsibility of supporting his child", when actually my case is keeping me out of my sons life, and I'm dying to be in it, been dying and trying for 9 years now...something you people know nothing about but are quick to point the finger at me and label me a "Deadbeat" ... Well, No Justice, No Peace...

    Your way in over your heads if you think "Child Support" is that powerful...

    It's government officials like you who cover it up with a cloak of immunity and the average Joe is going to accept it, because we are supposed to trust the government with our lives in its hands. Judicial employees like you are why there is injustice, corruption, and a lack of trust in our government system... It's not about paying Child Support to support the child, its about the grants and incentives states and their employees receive... The more broken families, the more open cases, the more grants and a incentives, more profit... Its not about the best interest of the child, its in the best interest of the states monetary gain...

    Blessings vs. Freestone 520 U.S. 329 (1997) ... It was never created nor intended to benefit nor in the best interests of the child, it was created to benefit states and the Secretary of State...
    Blessing v. Freestone, 520 U.S. 329 (1997)

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  17. T-FourDee

    T-FourDee Law Topic Starter New Member

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    What you guys fail to realize is I am the founder of a Non Profit Organization focusing specifically on this issue...

    I have both a debt collection attorney and a retired Oklahoma District County Court Judge who supports my claims and has verified this study to be true...not only that, but my research, reading, and understanding skills are impeccable...

    So can we put our personal feelings of the subject matter, to the side, and honestly talk about the facts of law here ?
     
  18. T-FourDee

    T-FourDee Law Topic Starter New Member

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    To those who know "Eek up the street" tell her I am able to attach photos and videos here to help her visualize my claims, so she knows these claims are not frivolous or "made up"...
    I document EVERYTHING


    ❤‼
     
  19. T-FourDee

    T-FourDee Law Topic Starter New Member

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    ‼State Administered (IV-D) NCP's‼

    ‼To anybody new, not only to the group but to the study, the very first step to relief is understanding your case, all aspects of it, BEFORE TAKING ANY ADVICE FROM ANYONE... ‼

    Request your case records...

    Child Support is a Civil Matter, it operates by law, and Civil Procedures are to be met, such as:

    1. Being properly served notice under your state rules before being held Default in any Judgment.

    2. Willingly agree to the voluntary Acknowledgement of Paternity (AOP)/DNA and the Obligation to commit to Child Support Services.

    3. Filing a lawsuit for Collection Enforcement against you when you are past due on your payments, and a Lien on your real or personal property and attaching it to (file it with) the Enforcement Order, in order to legally establish/grant a valid and enforceable order for debt collection against you and use enforcement remedies against you.

    4. The Lien must be place on your real or personal property and attached (filed with) the Enforcement Order with the County Court Clerk, in order to use the authority of enforcement remedies against you, such as...

    - Paycheck/Income Garnishments
    - State and Federal Tax Refund Interceptions
    - Driver's License Revocation/Suspension
    - Bank Levies/Account Freeze
    - Contempt of Court
    - Incarceration

    Look for procedure errors and missing steps in the establishment of these events of your case :

    1. Paternity

    2. Obligation

    3. Enforcement

    4. Contempt Citation

    5. Incarceration

    Now ask yourself:

    1. "Do they have Personal Jurisdiction over me ? Was I PROPERLY served notice of the first 4 events ?"

    2. "Was the Obligation offered to me as a voluntary agreement and not a mandatory court order ? Was I verbally threatened with consequences by not signing it ?"

    3. "During signing the Obligation, did the Child Support Agency (CSA) introduce themselves as a private agency and the services being offered to me were private services, single and separate from the state they are operating in ?"

    4. "The Enforcement Order, is it valid ? Is there a Lien against my real or personal property attached to my Enforcement Order and filed with the County Court Clerk where my case is filed BEFORE any enforcement remedies were used against me ?"

    5. "The Contempt Citation, before I was charged contempt, was an evaluation process taken to insure I wasn't able to make the obligated payments, rather than just not make payments when I was able ?"

    6. "Incarceration, was the same evaluation process taken before incarcerating me ? Were other accommodations offered to me before it was decided against me to incarcerate me ?"

    7. "Was I properly served notice of the Enforcement Order and Contempt Citation in order for the enforcement events to be actions taken against me ? More importantly, is the Lien attached to my Enforcement Order to give authority to use these enforcement remedies against me ?"


    YOU WON'T KNOW UNTIL YOU REQUEST YOUR CASE DOCUMENTS !

    Send the child support (IV-D) agency a STATE-LEVEL Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) Request letter by mail or email, requesting all of your case documents, FROM START TO FINISH...
     
  20. T-FourDee

    T-FourDee Law Topic Starter New Member

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    Just as I said, Civil Matter = Civil Procedures

    "Enforcement" doesn't start as soon as you have a child...

    It starts after you voluntary agree to commit to Child Support Enforcement Services and fail to make payments...Well, in a IV-D case, anything over $150 is considered "arrearage"/past due debt...

    Once the "past due debt" is accrued, the Child Support Agency (Not the state) files a lawsuit against the non custodial parent to collect the "past due debt" by filing a Motion to Enforce with the District County Court Clerk...

    Still not enforceable until the Defendant/Non Custodial is properly served notice of the Enforcement Order and Child Support LIEN and appears, or is properly served these notices and fails to appear and is held in Default Judgment...that is how Personal Jurisdiction is obtained...

    Either way a Non Custodial Parent must be served proper notice of pendency action...

    Once Personal Jurisdiction is established and the Motion to Enforce is granted, NOW AND ONLY NOW AND AFTER THIS EVENT and the Enforcement Order with the Child Support Lien attached to it and both are filed with the County Court Clerk where the case is originally filed, does the CSA have the authority to use enforcement remedies...

    - Paycheck/Income Garnishments
    - State and Federal Tax Refund Interceptions
    - Driver's License Revocation/Suspension
    - Bank Levies/Account Freeze
    - Contempt of Court (also requires serving notice)
    - Incarceration

    If the Enforcement Order with the Child Support Lien attached to it is not filed, or the lien is not filed with the Enforcement Order, and if the Non Custodial Parent is not served, failed to appear, and held in Default Judgment the Enforcement Order is invalid and unenforceable...

    The lien gives power to the Enforcement Order... Without it, there is no enforcement or authority to use enforcement remedies against a Non Custodial Parent to collect the arrearage/past due debt... Screenshot_20210226-152307_Adobe Acrobat.jpg

    The Office of Child Support Enforcement (OCSE) Enforcement Remedies Amendments of 1984, says Congress described and coined the Lien as "the most effective and cost efficient remedy" to collect past due Child Support payments...

    Screenshot_20210214-154407_WPS Office.jpg
    Screenshot_20210214-160808_WPS Office.jpg
     

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