Who owns/inherits the house?

Terry

New Member
Jurisdiction
Pennsylvania
Grandparents originally had joint ownership of the home. Grandfather died and grandmother inherited the home (we think, but I think Grandfather's name is still on the Deed). Grandmother had a will when she died, which specified that one son would be able to live in the house as long as he wanted, but that if he were to sell the house, it should be divided among the remaining siblings.

That son lived there his entire life, no spouse or children. He recently died, and he specified in his will that the house would go to one specific sibling and their spouse.

This is all fine with all parties involved. But my question is, as the executor, can the house be passed to them legally (to sell or do whatever they wish with) without any problems since the son apparently never had legal ownership of the property? And can this be done without probate?
 
can this be done without probate?

No.

For one thing, to be an executor one must be appointed by the probate court and given the power to act for the estate. For starters, whoever was nominated as executor in Grandmother's will is going to have to file the will with the court in order to get appointed.

Beyond that, it's likely to get a bit complicated so whoever the executor is will need to hire a probate attorney to figure out how to convey the property based on the terms and conditions of the will.
 
Grandparents originally had joint ownership of the home. Grandfather died and grandmother inherited the home (we think, but I think Grandfather's name is still on the Deed).

It's worth pointing out that your uncertainty makes it difficult for us to provide accurate information.

How did your grandparents hold the joint title? Tenants by the entireties? Joint tenants? Something else?

When did your grandfather die?

Grandmother had a will when she died

When did she die?

which specified that one son would be able to live in the house as long as he wanted, but that if he were to sell the house, it should be divided among the remaining siblings.

Can you provide a quote of the actual language from the will? Was your grandmother's estate probated? If so, is the probate still open, and who is the executor?

That son lived there his entire life, no spouse or children. He recently died

When did he die?

he specified in his will that the house would go to one specific sibling and their spouse.

That's only effective if he owned the house, and it's not at all clear from your post who owned the house.

But my question is, as the executor, can the house be passed to them legally (to sell or do whatever they wish with) without any problems since the son apparently never had legal ownership of the property?

Can it happen without problems is an incredibly vague question that really isn't answerable. Also, what does "as the executor" mean? Are you saying that the recently deceased son nominated you in his will to serve as executor of his estate? If so, have you actually been appointed by the court to serve as executor? If, as appears to be the case, your answer is no, then you are not actually the executor.

By the way, what is your relationship to all of these folks?

can this be done without probate?

Highly unlikely.

Please answer the several questions I asked, but it appears that this situation is quite messy and will require an attorney's assistance to resolve.
 
No.

For one thing, to be an executor one must be appointed by the probate court and given the power to act for the estate. For starters, whoever was nominated as executor in Grandmother's will is going to have to file the will with the court in order to get appointed.

Beyond that, it's likely to get a bit complicated so whoever the executor is will need to hire a probate attorney to figure out how to convey the property based on the terms and conditions of the will.

So...for my own future reference, is the only way to avoid probate when the transfer of property/land is involved?
It's worth pointing out that your uncertainty makes it difficult for us to provide accurate information.

How did your grandparents hold the joint title? Tenants by the entireties? Joint tenants? Something else?

When did your grandfather die?



When did she die?



Can you provide a quote of the actual language from the will? Was your grandmother's estate probated? If so, is the probate still open, and who is the executor?



When did he die?



That's only effective if he owned the house, and it's not at all clear from your post who owned the house.



Can it happen without problems is an incredibly vague question that really isn't answerable. Also, what does "as the executor" mean? Are you saying that the recently deceased son nominated you in his will to serve as executor of his estate? If so, have you actually been appointed by the court to serve as executor? If, as appears to be the case, your answer is no, then you are not actually the executor.

By the way, what is your relationship to all of these folks?



Highly unlikely.

Please answer the several questions I asked, but it appears that this situation is quite messy and will require an attorney's assistance to resolve.


Well, thank you for asking specific questions so you could try to help! I wasn't looking for a definite answser, just wanted to get an idea how things normally worked! Unfortunately, my post is vague for 2 reasons. First, I am here in these forums as someone who has had absolutely zero experience with any legal issues/estate planning! And, second, the grandparents bought the house before WWII, and died in the 1970s when I was just a child. Their son (my uncle) lived there the rest of his life until he passed away last week. So most of the answers to your questions I just don't know and don't know where to begin to look to figure out, for instance, who legally owns the home. (All I have to go on is the "word of mouth" info about my grandmother's will from years ago and that the county records yesterday said that the Deed to the house is in my grandfather's name....My mother has Alzheimer's and so can't help with info. My uncle's sister (who the house is to go to) has his original will and is trying to sort things out; she really should be the executor as she would be the one who would have any old paper records. We're just trying to settle things as simply as possible (but do things correctly) as the entire estate is not worth much at all!
 
In the case of joint ownership (with survivorship), it's a paperwork issue to remove the deceased from the chain of title and vest full ownership in the surviving tenant.

A will transfers NOTHING itself. It's just guidance the probate court follows when settling the estate. Note as you've worded it, the will is not implementable in probate. If the estate has been through probate, some disposition has already occurred. If it hasn't, you should have probate started. An attorney will review the will and the assets and debts of the estate and help you determine what needs to be done.
 
But my question is, as the executor, can the house be passed to them legally (to sell or do whatever they wish with) without any problems since the son apparently never had legal ownership of the property? And can this be done without probate?


Pennsylvania offers a simplified probate process for small estates, which state law defines as estates that contain no more than $50,000 in assets.

The court may permit the executor to distribute the deceased person's assets without going through all the parts of regular probate.

Estates in Pennsylvania that exceed the small estate's threshold, and for which there is either no Will, or a Will (but not a Living Trust), probate will be required before an estate can be transferred to the decedent's heirs or beneficiaries.

Pennsylvania has an inheritance tax that is due within nine months from the date the decedent dies, with a 5% discount if paid within three months.

Pennsylvania does allow anyone to create a living trust in order to avoid probating real estate, vehicles, bank accounts, and other possessions.

How Probate Works in Pennsylvania
 
The starting point is to figure out who owns the home because you can't sell it without the owner signing off on it. In your case, that starts with searching through your uncle's personal effects (e.g., desk, file cabinet, etc.). It's possible (and maybe likely) that you will need to pay a title company or attorney to search the title records.
 
Grandparents originally had joint ownership of the home. Grandfather died and grandmother inherited the home (we think, but I think Grandfather's name is still on the Deed). Grandmother had a will when she died, which specified that one son would be able to live in the house as long as he wanted, but that if he were to sell the house, it should be divided among the remaining siblings.

Your grandmother inherited the house when your grandfather died. That could be because the deed was originally recorded as joint tenants with a right of survivorship or in the entirety as a married couple .

Your grandmother's will either created a life estate (where the son would be able to live in the house without owning it) or her will gave the house to the son outright in which there is not life estate. If the son owns it, he can sell it. But if he only has a life estate, he can sell his life estate but he cannot sell the property. It would be owned by the remainder man (likely you and the other siblings).

If you don't understand what your grandmother's will says, have a lawyer explain it to you.
 
Your grandmother inherited the house when your grandfather died. That could be because the deed was originally recorded as joint tenants with a right of survivorship or in the entirety as a married couple .

Your grandmother's will either created a life estate (where the son would be able to live in the house without owning it) or her will gave the house to the son outright in which there is not life estate. If the son owns it, he can sell it. But if he only has a life estate, he can sell his life estate but he cannot sell the property. It would be owned by the remainder man (likely you and the other siblings).

These are awfully presumptuous statements given that you've never read any relevant document.
 
These are awfully presumptuous statements given that you've never read any relevant document.
I don't think so. From what OP posted, the will gave one son the right to live in the house as long as he wanted to. It didn't say that she gave him the house . That is a life estate.

But if he should want to sell it, then the other siblings should get their fair share. That could mean that she did give the house to one son. In which case, that son could do whatever he wanted to do with the house once it was out of probate.

I was just pointing out the two possibilities based on OP's post.

And as far as grandmother inheriting the house, the post says that grandparents owned the house jointly and when grandfather died, grandmother inherited the house. Even if the deed is still in the grandfather's name, it means that grandma was a joint tenant with a right to survivorship or as a married entity. There is no assumption there. The post says that.
 
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The thing that messes up the life estate idea is the "if he were to sell the house, he divides..." that's a bit oddly worded for a life estate. It could however mean that he has a life estate and he and the other siblings are remaindermen and all would be willing to sell if the son was.
 
The thing that messes up the life estate idea is the "if he were to sell the house, he divides..." that's a bit oddly worded for a life estate. It could however mean that he has a life estate and he and the other siblings are remaindermen and all would be willing to sell if the son was.
That is a possibility.
 
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