What day would parenting time begin?

N

N121212

New Member
Jurisdiction
Michigan
Our order states:

" In odd numbered years Defendant shall have parenting time from 6pm on the date the school district in which the children reside recesses for winter break until 9:00pm December 24th"

The children have a full day of school on December 21st, and then they do not have school on December 22nd as that is the first day of winter break. Which day would parenting time start? The 21st after school at 6pm, or on the 22nd at 6pm? Thank you!
 
This old dummy reads it as your time starts at 6:00 PM on the 21st.

Discuss it with the other party, see if the two of you can agree.

The last thing you want to do is argue especially at Christmas which means so much to most kids.
 
I completely agree. I would never make it an argument, I am just genuinely curious. A lot of our order is poorly worded so I just like to try to understand what I'm reading before even having the conversation. Thank you!
 
I agree. As soon as school ends on the 21st it is in recess for the duration of the break. Visitation should begin 6pm on the 21st.
 
N121212 said:
Our order states:

" In odd numbered years Defendant shall have parenting time from 6pm on the date the school district in which the children reside recesses for winter break until 9:00pm December 24th"

The children have a full day of school on December 21st, and then they do not have school on December 22nd as that is the first day of winter break. Which day would parenting time start? The 21st after school at 6pm, or on the 22nd at 6pm? Thank you!
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The parenting time starts on 6 pm on 21 Dec. It says on the date they are recessed for winter break. They are recessed for winter break on 21 Dec.
 
N121212 said:
Which day would parenting time start? The 21st after school at 6pm, or on the 22nd at 6pm?
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The order says that the defendant's parenting time begins "on the date the school district . . . recesses for winter break." The key word in this sentence is "recesses." According to dictionary.com, "recess" (as a verb) means "to suspend or defer for a recess" (as in "to recess the Senate"). Dictionary.com defines "recess" (as a noun) to mean (among other things) a "temporary withdrawal or cessation from the usual work or activity." In this case, the "usual work or activity" is the operation of the schools in the district. I think most people would say that occurs on the last day of school, rather than on the next day. However, I think an equally principled argument could be made that the district has normal operations through and including the 21st and that the district does not "recess[] for winter break" until the 22nd.

Especially at this late date, this is something the parents will need to work out between themselves and, if it's a big issue, they should seek to amend and clarify the divorce decree or custody order for future years. If you want a personal opinion, I think it would be phenomenally sh**ty for the parent who gets the child on Christmas day to quibble over this. Query which parent you are?

N121212 said:
A lot of our order is poorly worded
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Was your order based on an agreement you signed off on or was it something the court simply imposed on you? If the former, why would you sign off on something that is "poorly written"?
 
zddoodah said:
The order says that the defendant's parenting time begins "on the date the school district . . . recesses for winter break." The key word in this sentence is "recesses." According to dictionary.com, "recess" (as a verb) means "to suspend or defer for a recess" (as in "to recess the Senate"). Dictionary.com defines "recess" (as a noun) to mean (among other things) a "temporary withdrawal or cessation from the usual work or activity." In this case, the "usual work or activity" is the operation of the schools in the district. I think most people would say that occurs on the last day of school, rather than on the next day. However, I think an equally principled argument could be made that the district has normal operations through and including the 21st and that the district does not "recess[] for winter break" until the 22nd.

Especially at this late date, this is something the parents will need to work out between themselves and, if it's a big issue, they should seek to amend and clarify the divorce decree or custody order for future years. If you want a personal opinion, I think it would be phenomenally sh**ty for the parent who gets the child on Christmas day to quibble over this. Query which parent you are?



Was your order based on an agreement you signed off on or was it something the court simply imposed on you? If the former, why would you sign off on something that is "poorly written"?
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Actually, I am the custodial parent and will have them for Christmas and was more so curious as this wording is used for several holidays so I wanted to know as we go forward. There is no argument. I told him he could pick them up on the 21st at 6pm and he stated that he doesn't have to pick them up until the 22nd when break starts. I have no issue with that at all.

The order was written by my attorney. I didn't have a problem with it nor did I think there would be an issue until he started not picking everything.
 
N121212 said:
Actually, I am the custodial parent and will have them for Christmas and was more so curious as this wording is used for several holidays so I wanted to know as we go forward. . . .

The order was written by my attorney.
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In my opinion, the quoted language is poorly written because it's potentially ambiguous. If you're interpreting it in the way that is most favorable to the other parent and you adhere to that interpretation, then there shouldn't ever be an issue, but ambiguities like this can give rise to battles that probably shouldn't ever happen, resulting in needless legal fees and costs.
 
zddoodah said:
In my opinion, the quoted language is poorly written because it's potentially ambiguous. If you're interpreting it in the way that is most favorable to the other parent and you adhere to that interpretation, then there shouldn't ever be an issue, but ambiguities like this can give rise to battles that probably shouldn't ever happen, resulting in needless legal fees and costs.
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I agree, and would absolutely never argue over something so petty. There are some other visitation breaks that could pose issues as far as vacations and such, so I just wanted opinions on how to take it so I could plan accordingly. There are many wording issues that do cause confusion and I'm wondering if having it clarified in court would help prevent upset in the future.
 
N121212 said:
I'm wondering if having it clarified in court would help prevent upset in the future.
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The best thing to do is say to the other parent, "hey...you think this means X, and I think it means Y. Let's just agree on one or the other going forward so we don't have to get into this every time the issue comes up over the next __ years." If that doesn't work and you aren't simply willing to give in, then going to court for clarification is the way to go.
 
zddoodah said:
The best thing to do is say to the other parent, "hey...you think this means X, and I think it means Y. Let's just agree on one or the other going forward so we don't have to get into this every time the issue comes up over the next __ years." If that doesn't work and you aren't simply willing to give in, then going to court for clarification is the way to go.
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That's the main issue, is we do this constantly. We agree on something but the next year he wants to interpret it differently, which can make planning things challenging. Maybe trying to get something in writing that we can both sign and can reference could help prevent that. Thanks so much for your helpful advice!
 

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