threats/badmouthing to children

[freedom fred]

Jurisdiction

Illinois

My children have a grandparent that has always been a problem for my family.
Grandma has been insisting on repeated courtrooms since the children where
young.

I was taken to family court 6 months ago.
I was awarded residency of my daughters (12 and 13 year old).
I am a single dad.

grandmother is obviously unhappy with the outcome of this.
and is asking that I break the parenting schedule to provide her a week with the kids.

mother is not present during any of her overnights, and forfits most her parenting time to grandma.

During the last drop off, grandma threatened me and the children with more courtrooms in the car.
My 12 year old child informed me that grandma had long consersation with her last weekend how
terrible I am and how the courts will be prosecuting us.

later mother had a conversation with our daughter explaining she does not approve
of grandmothers words or actions either.

What can or should I do to ensure my children don't experience future verbal threats
From relitives?
and document the incident for future reference?

 

[justblue]

Please clarify what you mean by: "Grandma has been insisting on repeated courtrooms since the children where young."

 

[Zigner]

What can or should I do to ensure my children don't experience future verbal threats
From relitives?
and document the incident for future reference?

Why are you dropping them off with grandma?

 

[army judge]

whatever you do. respect the judge. if there is anything you don't follow that is in writing. The judge will hate you for it. If you beleive mom is not following there obligation. don't act untill you get an emergency petition. You don't a judge to think you don't follow there orders.

You might wish to start by reading and heeding your own admonishment to others!!!!

is asking that I break the parenting schedule to provide her a week with the kids.

If a person asks you to do something that you don't wish to do, all you need say is NO.

Frankly, you are under NO legal obligation to answer questions posed to you by another person.

Furthermore, you can eliminate a particular person asking you questions by LOCKING that person out of your life.

Again, no person has a legal duty to answer questions or accede to the demands of any other person.

mother is not present during any of her overnights, and forfits most her parenting time to grandma.

You are better served by NOT concerning what others choose to do.

Mind YOUR business, don't be concerned with what others do.

During the last drop off, grandma threatened me and the children with more courtrooms in the car.

Stop listening, in fact, to avoid any unpleasantness arrange to pick up and drop off the children at a local police or sheriff's office.

That is what many savvy parents do.

My 12 year old child informed me that grandma had long consersation with her last weekend how
terrible I am and how the courts will be prosecuting us.

You should instruct the children NOT to discuss you with anyone, even relatives!!!!

later mother had a conversation with our daughter explaining she does not approve
of grandmothers words or actions either.

Most adults are SMART enough to know that listening to GOSSIP causes issues.

Stop listening to gossip and rumors.

What can or should I do to ensure my children don't experience future verbal threats
From relitives?

There is nothing you can do to prevent what is occurring, EXCEPT ask your children NOT to engage in gossip.

You can teach your children to say the following: "Sorry, grandmother, if you want to know anything about daddy, ask him. All I can say about Daddy, is I love him."

document the incident for future reference?

Why bother?

You need to stop being so thinned skin.

As long as YOU execute your parental duties in an appropriate manner, keep doing the best you can to raise your children.

 

[zddoodah]

My children have a grandparent that has always been a problem for my family.

I assume this is your children's maternal grandmother. Correct?

Grandma has been insisting on repeated courtrooms since the children where
young.

Huh? What does "insisting on repeated courtrooms" mean?

I was taken to family court 6 months ago.

Taken by whom and for what?

grandmother is obviously unhappy with the outcome of this.
and is asking that I break the parenting schedule to provide her a week with the kids.

mother is not present during any of her overnights, and forfits most her parenting time to grandma.

What exactly does the visitation order say? Does it provide for visitation with grandma?

courtrooms in the car

??

My 12 year old child informed me that grandma had long consersation with her last weekend how
terrible I am and how the courts will be prosecuting us.

Who are "us"? You and who else?

What can or should I do to ensure my children don't experience future verbal threats
From relitives?

I need to understand what the visitation order provides before answering this question. However, if your children's mother does not approve of her mother's behavior, then why is she allowing her mother to be around the children?

 

[freedom fred]

Why are you dropping them off with grandma?

there is court ordered visitation to mother every other weekend.
I am obligated to drop off the children.

my lawyer told me there is no way to prove mom's whereabouts at night.
the children are too young to testify in a courtroom.

I was told that a guardian ad litem's investigation would be required for the judge to prove moms absence. this would require around 15,000 and another full lengthy trial.

 

[Zigner]

there is court ordered visitation to mother every other weekend.
I am obligated to drop off the children.

Obligated to drop them off with grandma?

my lawyer told me there is no way to prove mom's whereabouts at night.
the children are too young to testify in a courtroom.

Oh, you have an attorney. Well, you need to be asking your attorney your questions. It's foolish to think that random strangers on the internet would know more about your case than your attorney knows.

I was told that a guardian ad litem's investigation would be required for the judge to prove moms absence. this would require around 15,000 and another full lengthy trial.

If your attorney told you that, then who are we to second-guess your attorney? If your attorney didn't tell you that, then what did your attorney say when you asked the question?

 

[leslie82]

My children have a grandparent that has always been a problem for my family.
Grandma has been insisting on repeated courtrooms since the children where
young.

I was taken to family court 6 months ago.
I was awarded residency of my daughters (12 and 13 year old).
I am a single dad.

grandmother is obviously unhappy with the outcome of this.
and is asking that I break the parenting schedule to provide her a week with the kids.

mother is not present during any of her overnights, and forfits most her parenting time to grandma.

During the last drop off, grandma threatened me and the children with more courtrooms in the car.
My 12 year old child informed me that grandma had long consersation with her last weekend how
terrible I am and how the courts will be prosecuting us.

later mother had a conversation with our daughter explaining she does not approve
of grandmothers words or actions either.

What can or should I do to ensure my children don't experience future verbal threats
From relitives?
and document the incident for future reference?

What does "Grandma has been insisting on repeated courtrooms since the children were young" mean?

Well it seems grandma has no custody and that mom has parenting time and isn't using it. If grandma wants some kind of grandparent visitation, she has to go to court. In Illinois, they grant grandparent visitation under the following:

Grandparents who want court-ordered time with their grandchildren may file a petition (written request) asking for visits once a child turns one. Before a court will grant this request, the grandparent must show that the parents' denial of visitation is unreasonable and that it causes physical or emotional harm to the child. One of the following factors must also be present for a judge to order visitation:

• the child's parent is deceased or has been missing for at least 90 days
• the child's parent is legally incompetent to care for the child
• the child's parent has been in jail for at least 90 days
• the child's parents have divorced or legally separated and at least one parent doesn't object to grandparent visitation, or
• the child's parents are unmarried and not living together.

Grandparents bear the burden of proof in showing that a parent is not acting in a child's best interests by denying visitation. For example, in one Illinois case a paternal grandmother was denied visits because she didn't meet her burden of proof. The child's parents were never married, and the child's father was in prison at the time the child was born. The paternal grandmother had established a strong bond with her grandchild before visitation was cut off. However, the court refused to order visits because the grandmother couldn't demonstrate that her grandchild was emotionally or physically harmed by the lack of visitation.

In cases where grandparents meet their burden of proof, a court still needs to consider several factors to determine whether visitation is appropriate and if so, how much. These factors include:

• the child's preference, if the child is mature enough to state a reasoned opinion
• the grandparent's mental and physical health
• the length and quality of the prior grandparent-grandchild relationship
• the grandparent's reasons for filing the petition
• the parents' reasons for denying visitation
• the amount of visitation requested and any impact on the child
• whether the child lived with the grandparent for at least 6 months—with or without the parent
• whether the grandparent acted as a primary caretaker of the child for at least 6 months
• whether the grandparent previously had regular visitation with the child for at least 12 months, and
• any factor demonstrating that a loss of the grandparent relationship would harm the child's mental, physical or emotional health.

If I was you, I'd tell grandma to go pound sand. You should have a discussion with your ex about her mother and how you don't want the kids over there with her mom. If grandma wants to try to take you to court she can, but she may not get too far.

 

[leslie82]

there is court ordered visitation to mother every other weekend.
I am obligated to drop off the children.

my lawyer told me there is no way to prove mom's whereabouts at night.
the children are too young to testify in a courtroom.

I was told that a guardian ad litem's investigation would be required for the judge to prove moms absence. this would require around 15,000 and another full lengthy trial.

Who are you obligated to drop off the children to? Their mother. Okay that's the only person you drop them off too. If she says take them to her mom's say no. You can.

Your lawyer is right - as was already stated don't concern yourself with what your ex does unless you can prove she's being neglectful or abusive to the kids. Otherwise you can't do much about it.

You said the kids are 12 and 13 right? How are they "too young" to testify? Who told you that?

It's this simple: the grandma has NO legal rights to the kids. She has no custody over them. No guardianship. No visitation order. So, don't talk to the grandma anymore. Tell your ex that when her parenting time is over, to meet you somewhere else other than her mother's house with the kids. You should only be talking to your ex about the kids - not her mom.

 

[army judge]

my lawyer told me there is no way to prove mom's whereabouts at night.
the children are too young to testify in a courtroom.

If you trust your lawyer, trust the lawyer's advice.

If your children are too young to testify on your behalf, the other side of that equation reveals those little tykes would be too young to testify against you.

The answers you seek you already possess.

T-H-I-N-K-!!!

 

[freedom fred]

I assume this is your children's maternal grandmother. Correct?



Huh? What does "insisting on repeated courtrooms" mean?



Taken by whom and for what?



What exactly does the visitation order say? Does it provide for visitation with grandma?



??



Who are "us"? You and who else?



I need to understand what the visitation order provides before answering this question. However, if your children's mother does not approve of her mother's behavior, then why is she allowing her mother to be around the children?

yes, grandmother is the mother of my childrens mother.
Mom was diagnosed with manic bipolar disorder a about 3-4 years ago and was doing extended hospitalizations. At the time, me and mom got together and did an agreed order for me to care for the kids. mom voluntarily has not done unsupervised or overnight visits.

Grandmother has been mom's caretaker. including caring for all her finances and decision making. mom has made some progress in her mental health in the last year and has moved out of her grandmothers house where the children reside for her parenting time.

our most recent court dispute carried on for months. OC conducted all communication through grandmothers Email and phone. Several times grandmother forcibly withheld the agreements from mom.

I had to collect text evidence of mom's complaints of this. also, collect proof for the courts that "Mom's" phone calls to OC where not made by mom. 9000 buck in lawyer fees just to get a pen in mom's hand. Grandmother has always been a very expensive and bothersome problem.

Grandmother has no visitation in the parenting agreement. and the judge spoke specifically that she does not disapprove of grandparents time, but the children are to be with a parent for all overnights.

the only problem would be gathering evidence that mom is not present.

grandma's lawyer is very good.
and has found a loop hole approach to strip children from both parents for grandma.

It would good to find myself another firm that can prevent grandma's direction in future court cases.

me and mom have always agreed on what is right for the kids.

 

[Zigner]

... and the judge spoke specifically that she does not disapprove of grandparents time, but the children are to be with a parent for all overnights.

Is that in the ORDER? I highly doubt that the judge actually said that as anything more than in the way of advisory and as his/her own opinion.

 

[freedom fred]

If you trust your lawyer, trust the lawyer's advice.

If your children are too young to testify on your behalf, the other side of that equation reveals those little tykes would be too young to testify against you.

The answers you seek you already possess.

T-H-I-N-K-!!!

if you have never studied law, all judges favor the children being raised by either the mother or father.
the children are 12 and 13. I live with them every day. there is no doubt from me or my lawyer that they wouldn't tell the truth to a GAL? Me and their mom would NEVER instruct them to lie.

even if grandma did instruct them to lie about who they have been with,
Is there any child who wishes to be raised without both mother and father?

if you are questioning weather my children have complains in my household.
I have zero criminal record. zero record of any misconduct to my kids.
now after four court petitions brought against me, not one of them accused
or sought to prove me unfit.

I spend $9,000 last time to instruct the last laywer to keep both me and there mom present for my kids.

If you've never been a single parent, try coming up with $10,000 for a GAL when you are
sitting home zooming with your kids every day with no help and trying to run a business at the same time.

My kids are going back to in person school full time in a few weeks. And I can go back to running my business full time and will have the ability to fund the courts.

my question was not whether my children would lie to a court.
my question is how my children may have either me or their mother
their for them every night.

my case is extremely different and complex. I am looking for legal representation educated enough to handle it.

 

[Zigner]

my case is extremely different and complex. I am looking for legal representation educated enough to handle it.

You have an attorney - listen to your attorney.

 

[freedom fred]

Who are you obligated to drop off the children to? Their mother. Okay that's the only person you drop them off too. If she says take them to her mom's say no. You can.

Your lawyer is right - as was already stated don't concern yourself with what your ex does unless you can prove she's being neglectful or abusive to the kids. Otherwise you can't do much about it.

You said the kids are 12 and 13 right? How are they "too young" to testify? Who told you that?

It's this simple: the grandma has NO legal rights to the kids. She has no custody over them. No guardianship. No visitation order. So, don't talk to the grandma anymore. Tell your ex that when her parenting time is over, to meet you somewhere else other than her mother's house with the kids. You should only be talking to your ex about the kids - not her mom.

NO, my order specifies a time and place to drop off my kids... not a person. My x could argue in a court that this person provides transportation of the kids to her? not having a car is not reason to remove a child from a parent in illinois. Specially if the parent has organized the necessary transportation.

in Illinois my lawyer told me it would require "guardian ad litem". to get the children's testimony for their mother's whereabouts.

thank you for your reply, are you aware of any illinois family firms looking for work in the west burbs?

 

[army judge]

if you have never studied law, all judges favor the children being raised by either the mother or father.
the children are 12 and 13. I live with them every day. there is no doubt from me or my lawyer that they wouldn't tell the truth to a GAL? Me and their mom would NEVER instruct them to lie.

Sigh, reading is fundamental, as is comprehension.

As far as my studies, I earned my JD.
During that time, I earned a DO.
I've also served as an adjunct faculty member at two law schools.
I'm a retired military judge, as well as a state district Court Judge.
I've been a military prosecutor, defense counsel, as well as an Assistant US Attorney.

I'm licensed to practice law in several US states, as well as practice medicine.

I'm also licensed to practice in Australia.

Yeah, I know a little bit about the law.
We'll, enough to be admitted to practice law.

Where did you earn your JD, counsel?

I was a single parent for the major part of my childrens' lives.
My wife, their beloved mother, died of a heart attack when my youngest was only 9 years old.

If a person cares, he or she does whatever is required without boasting.

Don't think your life is harder than anyone else's life, because you only know your story.

You know nothing about what others are enduring.

I wish you all the best.

 

[zddoodah]

Why are you dropping them off with grandma?

there is court ordered visitation to mother every other weekend.
I am obligated to drop off the children.

That doesn't answer the question. The question was why are you dropping them off with grandma.

my lawyer told me there is no way to prove mom's whereabouts at night.
the children are too young to testify in a courtroom.

Your lawyer is wrong or stupid or both. Teens and pre-teens are most certainly not too young to testify, and there are other ways to prove if the mother isn't home at night.

mom . . . has moved out of her grandmothers house where the children reside for her parenting time.

Huh? The children reside with their great-grandmother during their mother's parenting time but their mother doesn't live with her grandmother??

OC conducted all communication

Who or what is "OC"?

It would good to find myself another firm that can prevent grandma's direction in future court cases.

Based on what you've written, I'm inclined to agree. If there is no order granting your children's maternal grandmother any visitation, then she has no standing to do anything (except seek such an order), so it's not at all clear why grandma's attorney is able to do anything here.

there is no doubt from me or my lawyer that they wouldn't tell the truth to a GAL?

I'm not sure if this is what you intended (especially since you ended this declaratory sentence with a question mark), but you wrote that you believe your kids will lie to a GAL.

my question is how my children may have either me or their mother
their for them every night.

It's pretty simple (although I note that this question is very different than the questions you asked in your original post). Either they stay with you or they stay with their mother. If, when you drop them off with their mother for visitation, the mother isn't staying with them, then you need to suspend visitation or make some other appropriate order.

Getting back to your original questions:

What can or should I do to ensure my children don't experience future verbal threats
From relitives?
and document the incident for future reference?

You still haven't clearly described the visitation order or what's happening, but the answer to the first question is that you need to seek a further court order to address what's happening. The answer to the second question depends on what exactly you're documenting.

 

[Zigner]

Generally, the court doesn't like putting the kids in the position of having to testify against a parent. I would suggest that the OP speak to his attorney about requesting that the judge speak to the children in chambers about the matter...

 

[leslie82]

if you have never studied law, all judges favor the children being raised by either the mother or father.
the children are 12 and 13. I live with them every day. there is no doubt from me or my lawyer that they wouldn't tell the truth to a GAL? Me and their mom would NEVER instruct them to lie.

even if grandma did instruct them to lie about who they have been with,
Is there any child who wishes to be raised without both mother and father?

if you are questioning weather my children have complains in my household.
I have zero criminal record. zero record of any misconduct to my kids.
now after four court petitions brought against me, not one of them accused
or sought to prove me unfit.

I spend $9,000 last time to instruct the last laywer to keep both me and there mom present for my kids.

If you've never been a single parent, try coming up with $10,000 for a GAL when you are
sitting home zooming with your kids every day with no help and trying to run a business at the same time.

My kids are going back to in person school full time in a few weeks. And I can go back to running my business full time and will have the ability to fund the courts.

my question was not whether my children would lie to a court.
my question is how my children may have either me or their mother
their for them every night.

my case is extremely different and complex. I am looking for legal representation educated enough to handle it.

if you have never studied law, all judges favor the children being raised by either the mother or father.
the children are 12 and 13. I live with them every day. there is no doubt from me or my lawyer that they wouldn't tell the truth to a GAL? Me and their mom would NEVER instruct them to lie.

Um...Army Judge has an extensive career in the legal system fyi. So...just saying yes he knows what he's talking about when he comments to people.


even if grandma did instruct them to lie about who they have been with,
Is there any child who wishes to be raised without both mother and father?

Yes. Children who have neglectful, abusive, horrible parent(s) do. I had a horrible mother and she was pretty absent and we had all wished she had divorced my dad sooner than they got divorced actually. I'm a single mom and though my daughter misses her dad, it's better for her he's not around.

 

[leslie82]

NO, my order specifies a time and place to drop off my kids... not a person. My x could argue in a court that this person provides transportation of the kids to her? not having a car is not reason to remove a child from a parent in illinois. Specially if the parent has organized the necessary transportation.

in Illinois my lawyer told me it would require "guardian ad litem". to get the children's testimony for their mother's whereabouts.

thank you for your reply, are you aware of any illinois family firms looking for work in the west burbs?

No I don't live in Illinois. Google that. Look up family law attorneys in your area who offer free consultations.

If you're unhappy with your lawyer, fire them. Go get a new one. But if you have a lawyer, follow their advice.