Suing to cease subrogation efforts

[John Anthony]

Jurisdiction

Texas

I sold my car in payments to my brother and asked him to insure the car under his name (Liab only). The car is still under my name until he pays it off. He was recently involved in accident totaling my car. He wasnt at fault or at least i thought. The insurance of the other party denied liability solely on their customer's "more compelling statement" (their words exactly) and is now subrograting me directly with a bill after fixing their customer's car.


As the owner of the car my brother was driving, can i sue the other driver directly to make his insurance pay and cease their subro process? ; I think i can prove the case in our favor. Can a judgement be placed against me (the owner) if i lose? Im doing this because i dont think its fair for my brother to involve his insurance because i really do believe he is not at fault. No injuries and this is in the state of Texas.

 

[adjusterjack]

As the owner of the car my brother was driving, can i sue the other driver directly to make his insurance pay and cease their subro process?

Yes.

Your car, your damage, other driver hit it. You can sue him. You would have to win the lawsuit to get the other driver's insurance company to pay for the damage to your car. A judgment that the other driver was 100% at fault should cease the subrogation attempt.

Can a judgement be placed against me (the owner)

If you lose there will be a judgment against you for the cost of the other driver's repairs.

Im doing this because i dont think its fair for my brother to involve his insurance because i really do believe he is not at fault.

That's foolish. This has nothing to do with fairness or your belief. The liability insurance on the car is there to defend against allegations of fault. I'm surprised that the other driver's insurance isn't also going after your brother for the money.

 

[John Anthony]

Yes.

Your car, your damage, other driver hit it. You can sue him. You would have to win the lawsuit to get the other driver's insurance company to pay for the damage to your car. A judgment that the other driver was 100% at fault should cease the subrogation attempt.



If you lose there will be a judgment against you for the cost of the other driver's repairs.



That's foolish. This has nothing to do with fairness or your belief. The liability insurance on the car is there to defend against allegations of fault. I'm surprised that the other driver's insurance isn't also going after your brother for the money.

I'm not sure why the subro dept only named me in the bill. The only thing i can think of is because i have assets and my brother doesnt but that would take some digging on their part. Worst case scenario if i lose and a judgment is put against me, can i redirect that judgement to my brother's auto insurer?

 

[Zigner]

Worst case scenario if i lose and a judgment is put against me, can i redirect that judgement to my brother's auto insurer?

No - your brother's auto insurer didn't do anything wrong, so there wouldn't be a judgment against them. If this goes to court, then your brother will (almost definitely) also be named in the lawsuit, at which point his auto insurance should provide legal representation for him. Assuming you actually had the forethought to maintain insurance on the vehicle you own, then your own insurance should be providing legal representation for you.

 

[Zigner]

Has the other party's insurance explained to you why they believe you have any liability in the first place?

 

[adjusterjack]

I'm not sure why the subro dept only named me in the bill. The only thing i can think of is because i have assets and my brother doesnt but that would take some digging on their part.

Not much digging. It's not hard to figure out.

Worst case scenario if i lose and a judgment is put against me, can i redirect that judgement to my brother's auto insurer?

You can. And the company can deny you coverage for not complying with the terms and conditions of the policy which require you to notify the insurance company of the claim.

Read the insurance policy section called something like "Duties after an accident or loss." Looks something like this.



Insurance companies take all of that very seriously.

 

[adjusterjack]

If this goes to court, then your brother will (almost definitely) also be named in the lawsuit, at which point his auto insurance should provide legal representation for him. Assuming you actually had the forethought to maintain insurance on the vehicle you own, then your own insurance should be providing legal representation for you.

The brother's policy would provide representation for both brothers. (Assuming no denial of coverage for non-compliance.)

The liability section of an auto policy defines "insured" as:

 

[Zigner]

The brother's policy would provide representation for both brothers. (Assuming no denial of coverage for non-compliance.)

The liability section of an auto policy defines "insured" as:

View attachment 4063

Fair enough, but I suspect that another wrinkle is that the brother insured the car as an "owner". While technically correct, it may cause some problems since they didn't transfer the title, as would normally be done in such a situation.

 

[welkin]

I sold my car in payments to my brother and asked him to insure the car under his name (Liab only). The car is still under my name until he pays it off

You should have transferred title to your brother and placed a lien on the car (would show up on the title) and you would have avoided all the insurance hassle.

 

[John Anthony]

Not much digging. It's not hard to figure out.



You can. And the company can deny you coverage for not complying with the terms and conditions of the policy which require you to notify the insurance company of the claim.

Read the insurance policy section called something like "Duties after an accident or loss." Looks something like this.

View attachment 4062

Insurance companies take all of that very seriously.

My brother did not report to his insurance primarily because he does not have collision coverage only liab coverage and figured he wasnt at fault and therefore filed with the other party's insurance. Thank you all for the valuable advice.

 

[John Anthony]

You should have transferred title to your brother and placed a lien on the car (would show up on the title) and you would have avoided all the insurance hassle.

Thats my concern, i dont want subro coming after my assets when my brother did have valid insurance coverage at the time of the accident.

 

[zddoodah]

I sold my car in payments to my brother and asked him to insure the car under his name (Liab only).

Why on Earth did your brother not provide the other driver with his insurance info such that his insurance would take care of this? He was legally obligated to do so.

The insurance of the other party denied liability solely on their customer's "more compelling statement" (their words exactly) and is now subrograting me directly with a bill after fixing their customer's car.

When you say the other driver's insurer is "subrogating [you] directly with a bill," does that mean anything other than that the insurer sent you a bill and demanded you reimburse it for payments made under the other driver's collision coverage? I'll assume not.

Have you given your brother written notice that, if you have to pay anything as a result of this, you'll look to him for reimbursement? If not, why not?

can i sue the other driver directly to make his insurance pay and cease their subro process?

You can sue the other driver for the damage to your vehicle. If you're successful, his liability insurer should indemnify him and pay the judgment and cease any efforts to obtain reimbursement from you.

I think i can prove the case in our favor.

How? What evidence do you have other than your brother's testimony?

Can a judgement be placed against me (the owner) if i lose?

Based on a very quick and cursory google search, it does not appear to me that you, as the owner, are liable for the damages caused by your brother unless the other party can prove (1) that you negligently allowed your brother to drive despite knowing he wasn't competent to do so or (2) something called the "family purpose doctrine" applies (google "family purpose doctrine texas" for more information about what that is).

Im doing this because i dont think its fair for my brother to involve his insurance because i really do believe he is not at fault.

I'm going to be blunt: This is STUPID. This is exactly why you "asked him to insure the car under his name." I'm going to assume you were not in the car when the accident happened, so you have no reason to believe anything regarding who was or wasn't at fault beyond the fact that you believe what your brother told you. Whether or not you believe him, his insurance should be dealing with this, and the longer you wait to involve the insurer, the more likely it becomes that the insurer will deny coverage.

 

[army judge]

My brother did not report to his insurance primarily because he does not have collision coverage only liab coverage and figured he wasnt at fault and therefore filed with the other party's insurance. Thank you all for the valuable advice.

Thats my concern, i dont want subro coming after my assets when my brother did have valid insurance coverage at the time of the accident.

Those comments make this scenario very clear, thank you.

 

[adjusterjack]

I suspect that another wrinkle is that the brother insured the car as an "owner". While technically correct, it may cause some problems since they didn't transfer the title,

Yes, that could very well be a problem.

My brother did not report to his insurance primarily because he does not have collision coverage only liab coverage and figured he wasnt at fault and therefore filed with the other party's insurance.

How old is your brother? Sounds like he has no clue about his obligations under the insurance contract.

 

[John Anthony]

Yes, that could very well be a problem.



How old is your brother? Sounds like he has no clue about his obligations under the insurance contract.

He is 25 and barely trying to gain traction in life but fell back a couple a steps with the now totaled car. I set up the insurance policy for him to monitor that it was getting paid.

 

[John Anthony]

Why on Earth did your brother not provide the other driver with his insurance info such that his insurance would take care of this? He was legally obligated to do so.

Tensions were high at the scene of the accident from what i heard but police took all the info down.



When you say the other driver's insurer is "subrogating [you] directly with a bill," does that mean anything other than that the insurer sent you a bill and demanded you reimburse it for payments made under the other driver's collision coverage? I'll assume not.

The subro bill is asking money spend under their collision coverage, deductible and rental. Wondering why they didnt file directly on my brothers insurance. The insurance info was clearly on the police report, dont know how they missed it

Have you given your brother written notice that, if you have to pay anything as a result of this, you'll look to him for reimbursement? If not, why not?

We've had our talks but he lost his job shortly after the accident due to the lack of transportation but remains in school.

You can sue the other driver for the damage to your vehicle. If you're successful, his liability insurer should indemnify him and pay the judgment and cease any efforts to obtain reimbursement from you.



How? What evidence do you have other than your brother's testimony?

My brother was rear ended, other driver says he was cut off by my brother. Will be presenting photos of the point of impact and my best argument.



Based on a very quick and cursory google search, it does not appear to me that you, as the owner, are liable for the damages caused by your brother unless the other party can prove (1) that you negligently allowed your brother to drive despite knowing he wasn't competent to do so or (2) something called the "family purpose doctrine" applies (google "family purpose doctrine texas" for more information about what that is).

I had seen that doctrine previously in my research. I did sell my brother this car and although was not legally transferred yet, I know he is a licensed competent driver and police did not mention otherwise at the time of the accident.



I'm going to be blunt: This is STUPID. This is exactly why you "asked him to insure the car under his name." I'm going to assume you were not in the car when the accident happened, so you have no reason to believe anything regarding who was or wasn't at fault beyond the fact that you believe what your brother told you. Whether or not you believe him, his insurance should be dealing with this, and the longer you wait to involve the insurer, the more likely it becomes that the insurer will deny coverage.

I wasnt involved in the accident but considering i had paid up front for this car cash...I am not only at a loss financially considering my brother lost his job and he had no collision coverage and since facts of how the accident happened can lean either way...i have no other choice but to fight it even though i might get muddy in the process . I have already reported it to my brothers insurance.

 

[Zigner]

I wasnt involved in the accident but considering i had paid up front for this car cash...I am not only at a loss financially considering my brother lost his job and he had no collision coverage and since facts of how the accident happened can lean either way...i have no other choice but to fight it even though i might get muddy in the process . I have already reported it to my brothers insurance.

Assuming they accept the claim that your brother filed (not you), then the insurance company has a duty to defend.

 

[army judge]

brother did not report to his insurance because he does not have

collision coverage only liab coverage, figured he wasnt at fault filed

with the other party's insurance.

Very little, if any wiggle room, mate.

The other party's insurer only owes a legal duty to their insured.

 

[welkin]

I wasnt involved in the accident but considering i had paid up front for this car cash...I am not only at a loss financially considering my brother lost his job and he had no collision coverage and since facts of how the accident happened can lean either way...i have no other choice but to fight it even though i might get muddy in the process . I have already reported it to my brothers insurance.

Do you know what liability insurance covers? It covers injury and property damage of the car your brother hit.

You're concerned with the other driver's insurance co. coming after you for the repair of the other car. So your brother's liability insurance would have covered the repair. What it would not cover is the repair of your car.

There is no logic in saying that your brother didn't have collision insurance to address your concern..

 

[zddoodah]

I have already reported it to my brothers insurance.

Then that should be the end of it. Stay in contact with your brother's insurer to make sure it does what it's supposed to do.