Question about Durable Power of Attorney

[CindiW]

Jurisdiction

Florida

I am making out a Durable Power of Attorney form and the form says something like I am appointing ________ as my attorney-in-fact. The question is: can I appoint two attorneys-in-fact on the one form, or do I have to change the wording from attorney-in-fact to attorneys-in-fact? Thank you. Or can I make two separate forms for each attorney-in-fact? I want 2 attorneys-in-fact.

 

[Foamback]

Why do you want two? One is not an alternate to the other in case of illness or incapacitation?

 

[Zigner]

I second Foamback's questions. I suspect that having multiple people acting in that role concurrently can lead to conflict over decisions being made. It would seem wiser to have one person as your attorney-in-fact with an alternate person in case the first person cannot/does not retain that capacity at some point.

 

[CindiW]

OK, I thiink I understand but I know there will be no conflict. But my husband can't walk well, he is mentally sound but does not understand the computer well (he's over 75, not an excuse but still that's the way it is) and if I am somehow incapacitated (car accident, etc.) then I want someone to act in my behalf as well. So the question remains -- can there be two PoA's and do they each need a separate form, which might be better anyway. Yes, I know there will be absolutely no conflict.

 

[adjusterjack]

It would seem wiser to have one person as your attorney-in-fact with an alternate person in case the first person cannot/does not retain that capacity at some point.

That's how I have it.

Not a good idea to have your affairs handled by a "committee."

 

[zddoodah]

can I appoint two attorneys-in-fact on the one form

Yes.

do I have to change the wording from attorney-in-fact to attorneys-in-fact?

That would be the grammatically correct thing to do.

Or can I make two separate forms for each attorney-in-fact?

You can do that (at least you've given us no reason to believe you lack that ability).

I want 2 attorneys-in-fact.

Why do you want to make a POA in the first place? Why do you want two agents/attorneys-in-fact? What authority are you intending to grant these folks? Have you though about including wording that addresses whether the two agents must act jointly and unanimously or whether they may act independently of each other. What if Agent A wants to do one thing and Agent B wants to do something else or nothing at all? Who will break the tie?

 

[Foamback]

You and your husband need to speak to a lawyer

 

[CindiW]

Yes.



That would be the grammatically correct thing to do.



You can do that (at least you've given us no reason to believe you lack that ability).



Why do you want to make a POA in the first place? Why do you want two agents/attorneys-in-fact? What authority are you intending to grant these folks? Have you though about including wording that addresses whether the two agents must act jointly and unanimously or whether they may act independently of each other. What if Agent A wants to do one thing and Agent B wants to do something else or nothing at all? Who will break the tie?

The reason I want to make a POA especially for my husband is because he is not savvy with the internet, has walking problems. For instance, I went into the bank to open an account but in order for me to do so as a joint owner (me and my husband) they said he'd have to be there. I trust our friend implicitly and I believe there is no problem as far as conflict of interest would go. We're talking in case neither I nor my husband can speak for ourselves due to accident. The question at hand is: if I am the Durable PoA for my husband, can he appoint another person also, and would it be ok on one form or two forms, one for each PoA. Or would "power of attorneys" on one form with two designees be ok? Yes, I trust the person implicitly to make the best possible decision if I am impaired and would not go ahead with anything unless absolutely necessary.
I will consider the thoughts presented here, thank you.

 

[CindiW]

I second Foamback's questions. I suspect that having multiple people acting in that role concurrently can lead to conflict over decisions being made. It would seem wiser to have one person as your attorney-in-fact with an alternate person in case the first person cannot/does not retain that capacity at some point.

So wouldn't that be two PoA's? For instance, my husband as my PoA along with another as alternate? Two forms, or one form for PoA with two persons having power of attorney?

 

[Foamback]

The reason I want to make a POA especially for my husband is because he is not savvy with the internet, has walking problems. For instance, I went into the bank to open an account but in order for me to do so as a joint owner (me and my husband) they said he'd have to be there. I trust our friend implicitly and I believe there is no problem as far as conflict of interest would go. We're talking in case neither I nor my husband can speak for ourselves due to accident. The question at hand is: if I am the Durable PoA for my husband, can he appoint another person also, and would it be ok on one form or two forms, one for each PoA. Or would "power of attorneys" on one form with two designees be ok? Yes, I trust the person implicitly to make the best possible decision if I am impaired and would not go ahead with anything unless absolutely necessary.
I will consider the thoughts presented here, thank you.

I am confused. When you say you want two POA's does that mean one document naming a POA for you, and a named POA for your husband on the same document? Or one document naming two attorneys in fact just for yourself?

 

[Tax Counsel]

We're talking in case neither I nor my husband can speak for ourselves due to accident.

Certainly it is a good idea to have included in DPOA an alternate agent that can step in should the first agent not be up to the job for whatever reason. That can all be done in a single document.

The question at hand is: if I am the Durable PoA for my husband, can he appoint another person also, and would it be ok on one form or two forms, one for each PoA. Or would "power of attorneys" on one form with two designees be ok? Yes, I trust the person implicitly to make the best possible decision if I am impaired and would not go ahead with anything unless absolutely necessary.
I will consider the thoughts presented here, thank you.

It's possible to set it up in all different ways, but not all the options out there are smart ones. Having two agents at the same time can sometimes be a nightmare, for example. It really depends on who the trustees are and how well they get along. I've seen plenty of instances where there were more than one agent and all the agents disagreed about what to do, resulting in fights, bad blood between them, and sometimes a lot of money spent on legal fees sorting it all out.

Have an experienced elder law attorney help draft the durable powers of attorney to ensure they meet the requirements of state law and will work the way the principal (the one granting the DPOA to the agent) intends. That will also help avoid future conflicts over it.

It is generally a good idea for the principal to discuss his/her wishes and intentions with the agent(s) he selects and other family members as well to ensure what the principal wants done is what actually happens. If the agent is not clear on that, he or she may end up doing something the principal would not want. And the whole idea here is to honor the wishes of the principal, not what the agent wants.

 

[CindiW]

So I've been reading about irrevocable trusts and wonder what happens if the person named as recipient in the trust dies, does the grantor have rights to make the trust over?

 

[CindiW]

Certainly it is a good idea to have included in DPOA an alternate agent that can step in should the first agent not be up to the job for whatever reason. That can all be done in a single document.



It's possible to set it up in all different ways, but not all the options out there are smart ones. Having two agents at the same time can sometimes be a nightmare, for example. It really depends on who the trustees are and how well they get along. I've seen plenty of instances where there were more than one agent and all the agents disagreed about what to do, resulting in fights, bad blood between them, and sometimes a lot of money spent on legal fees sorting it all out.

Have an experienced elder law attorney help draft the durable powers of attorney to ensure they meet the requirements of state law and will work the way the principal (the one granting the DPOA to the agent) intends. That will also help avoid future conflicts over it.

It is generally a good idea for the principal to discuss his/her wishes and intentions with the agent(s) he selects and other family members as well to ensure what the principal wants done is what actually happens. If the agent is not clear on that, he or she may end up doing something the principal would not want. And the whole idea here is to honor the wishes of the principal, not what the agent wants.

Thank you very much. I (we) have two persons that we absolutely trust and yes, they get along. My fear is if one dies, then we have another. So the thing is: I will be the attorney-in-law for my husband's DPA and he will be the first in line for mine. But then we need a second because (1) I'm such a fraidy cat and (2) in case of incapacity of my husband or myself. So the question is, if I'm making out a DPA form for finances and health, etc., would two names on one form be ok? Or would two forms be better, with my husband's name on one and the person we trust's name be on a second form?

 

[welkin]

I don't think that you can appoint an AIF for your husband. He is the one that needs to do the appointing. You can appoint one for yourself of course.

Therefore, there would be two PoAs and two AIFs.

 

[CindiW]

I am confused. When you say you want two POA's does that mean one document naming a POA for you, and a named POA for your husband on the same document? Or one document naming two attorneys in fact just for yourself?

I'm wondering if I can make one document naming my husband and another as DPoA. Maybe it would be better to make two separate documents, one for me as DPoA and another for the second DPoA.

 

[doucar]

So I've been reading about irrevocable trusts and wonder what happens if the person named as recipient in the trust dies, does the grantor have rights to make the trust over?

It will depend upon the terms of the trust. I would recommend seeing an estate planning attorney, especially for an irrevocable trust.

 

[doucar]

I'm wondering if I can make one document naming my husband and another as DPoA. Maybe it would be better to make two separate documents, one for me as DPoA and another for the second DPoA.

No that would be more confusing. Name your spouse as attorney in fact for you and an alternate if he is unwilling or unable to do it. One document for you and one for your husband.

 

[CindiW]

I don't think that you can appoint an AIF for your husband. He is the one that needs to do the appointing. You can appoint one for yourself of course.

Therefore, there would be two PoAs and two AIFs.

AIF means Accredited Investment Fiduciary?

 

[doucar]

So I've been reading about irrevocable trusts and wonder what happens if the person named as recipient in the trust dies, does the grantor have rights to make the trust over?

Why an irrrevocable trust?

 

[CindiW]

No that would be more confusing. Name your spouse as attorney in fact for you and an alternate if he is unwilling or unable to do it. One document for you and one for your husband.

OK, so the two names would go at the beginning of the document, which says, "hereby appoint [names of two persons] as my Attorneys-in-Fact to act for me," etc. Is that right?