Prohibiting employees from discussing pay. Legal?

[GoodWorker32]

I just got a raise at work. After giving me the raise, one of the very first things my boss told me was not to tell any coworkers.

I then asked her "What if a coworker asks me about pay? If I say I was told not to discuss pay, wouldn't they get suspicious that I'm hiding something?"

Her response was that it's highly unlikely anyone would ask me about pay. And if they ask, I can simply say I'm not supposed to discuss.

I certainly wasn't going to tell her this...but I hear coworkers discussing pay/raises all the time.

However, I read something interesting online. Per the National Labor Relations Act, it's apparently against the law to prohibit employees from discussing pay. So...are my employer's actions legal? Am I missing some loophole to the NLRA? Because it's hard to imagine a boss would blatantly break such a major law.

 

[justblue]

I just got a raise at work. After giving me the raise, one of the very first things my boss told me was not to tell any coworkers.

I then asked her "What if a coworker asks me about pay? If I say I was told not to discuss pay, wouldn't they get suspicious that I'm hiding something?"

Her response was that it's highly unlikely anyone would ask me about pay. And if they ask, I can simply say I'm not supposed to discuss.

I certainly wasn't going to tell her this...but I hear coworkers discussing pay/raises all the time.

However, I read something interesting online. Per the National Labor Relations Act, it's apparently against the law to prohibit employees from discussing pay. So...are my employer's actions legal? Am I missing some loophole to the NLRA? Because it's hard to imagine a boss would blatantly break such a major law.

What state?

 

[army judge]

What state?

Magic Eight Ball reveals AZ or GA.



The OP's prior thread with one of my previous responses appearing to go unheeded:

With employers desperately seeking to hire qualified people to add to their workforce, a well qualified person should seek other employment if he/she is dissatisfied with her/his current employer.
Its never wise to break your employer's rules.
If working conditions are intolerable, unbearable, uncomfortable, or insufferable seek employment elsewhere.

It is very foolish for YOU to SULLY or STAIN your good name.
Employers don't appreciate insolence, recalcitrance, or obstinance.

Are workplace bans on personal cellphone use a violation of civil rights?
.....

 

[Zigner]

OP's other thread says Arizona.

It's possible that the OP's workplace is not covered: Jurisdictional Standards | National Labor Relations Board

 

[army judge]

So...are my employer's actions legal? Am I missing some loophole to the NLRA? Because it's hard to imagine a boss would blatantly break such a major law.

The answer is "it depends" whether you discuss wages on your employer's dime and/or her/his premises, or before customers.

Can Your Employer Prohibit You from Discussing Your Salary?

Can Employers Prohibit Employees from Discussing Pay? | Wittliff Cutter, PLLC

Can Employees Discuss Pay and Salaries?

Can an employer enforce rules that prohibit employees from discussing their pay and working conditions?

'Can I Ban Employees from Discussing Their Pay?'

Employers Cannot Ban Co-Workers from Discussing Pay

 

[zddoodah]

So...are my employer's actions legal?

Well...let's review the actions of your employer as you described them:

• "After giving me the raise, one of the very first things my boss told me was not to tell any coworkers." Nothing illegal about making a request. It's not like she said, ". . . and, if you do, you'll be fired." That's the sort of thing you'd have mentioned if it had happened. Right?
• "Her response was that it's highly unlikely anyone would ask me about pay." That's nothing more than a prediction about future actions of certain people. Nothing illegal about that.
• "And if they ask, I can simply say I'm not supposed to discuss." That's unquestionably true.

Because it's hard to imagine a boss would blatantly break such a major law.

"Major law"? I'm not aware of a hierarchy of laws, but your boss didn't break any law, according to what you've told us.

In my experience in the workforce, it is almost universally considered to be bad form to discuss pay and compensation. You have nothing to gain by such discussions.

 

[GoodWorker32]

Magic Eight Ball reveals AZ or GA.



The OP's prior thread with one of my previous responses appearing to go unheeded:





Are workplace bans on personal cellphone use a violation of civil rights?
.....

Correct, I'm in Arizona. The VPN on my personal computer sometimes gives me an Atlanta-based IP address (I'm guessing that's why you thought Georgia was a possibility).

As for the other thread you referenced, I'm not sure why you claim I failed to take your advice. I ended up going to management to discuss that trainee's disrespectful attitude (because it reached the point where her actions were reflecting poorly on me). Also, I agree the trainee should have found a job elsewhere if our policies were really so problematic for her. She ended up being forced to find a job elsewhere (my employer eventually fired her)

 

[Tax Counsel]

Because it's hard to imagine a boss would blatantly break such a major law.

Employers break these kinds of laws all the time, especially small employers. Why? Because they don't know about them and don't consult employment law attorneys about their rights and obligations before they do something; they unfortunately they often only see a lawyer after some dispute arises over what the employer has already done.

 

[Tax Counsel]

In my experience in the workforce, it is almost universally considered to be bad form to discuss pay and compensation. You have nothing to gain by such discussions.

Employees might indeed have something to gain by exchanging salary information. Some may find out they are paid a whole lot less for the same work others do. This is exactly why employers don't want the employees to share pay information. They don't want those lesser paid employees seeking more money to match their peers. Federal law, as already mentioned in this thread, prohibits the employer from preventing employees from sharing such information, but many employees are not aware of that. I happen to live in a state where the employer must state in the job listings the salary or salary range for any positions that they are seeking to fill. This follows a new trend to require more transparency in employee pay. So whether "bad form" or not, it may be the case in the future in some states that other employees will know what you make because the law will require the employer to disclose it. And it's not like this would be something totally new. In federal government employment, for example, one can get a pretty idea of what a particular employee is paid simply by knowing the position and grade of the employee.

 

[GoodWorker32]

Well...let's review the actions of your employer as you described them:

• "After giving me the raise, one of the very first things my boss told me was not to tell any coworkers." Nothing illegal about making a request. It's not like she said, ". . . and, if you do, you'll be fired." That's the sort of thing you'd have mentioned if it had happened. Right?
• "Her response was that it's highly unlikely anyone would ask me about pay." That's nothing more than a prediction about future actions of certain people. Nothing illegal about that.
• "And if they ask, I can simply say I'm not supposed to discuss." That's unquestionably true.

"Major law"? I'm not aware of a hierarchy of laws, but your boss didn't break any law, according to what you've told us.

In my experience in the workforce, it is almost universally considered to be bad form to discuss pay and compensation. You have nothing to gain by such discussions.

No, she never said I'd be fired for discussing wages.

But in the workplace, there's an unwritten rule that you have to obey your boss. No matter her wording, it's implied that what she really means is "I forbid you to discuss your raise with coworkers. If anyone asks you about pay, you will say you're not supposed to discuss."

There's certainly a hierarchy of laws. Murder laws are more serious than littering laws, for example.

As for her prediction that I'm highly unlikely to get asked about pay, I have a prediction of my own. Based on how often pay gets discussed, I predict it's only a matter of time until a coworker asks me "Have you gotten a raise lately? If so, how much?"

When I get asked (not if; when), I could always take my boss's advice and say I'm not supposed to discuss. However, sometimes a lack of response tells more than any response ever could. By refusing to answer the question, there's a good chance the coworker would suspect I got a raise but was told not to discuss (as the coworker probably got the same "don't discuss" lecture when/if they got a raise)

I agree pay is an invasive question. But I suppose nosiness is human nature.

There's also another reason pay frequently gets discussed at my workplace. We have some questionable pay practices. There have been many cases where a new employee makes more than their trainer. Also, raise requests get denied relatively often (I know this because I hear employees vent). Both of these factors lead to an environment where employees are hyper-focused on the topic of pay/raises.

 

[GoodWorker32]

Employers break these kinds of laws all the time, especially small employers. Why? Because they don't know about them and don't consult employment law attorneys about their rights and obligations before they do something; they unfortunately they often only see a lawyer after some dispute arises over what the employer has already done.

Without giving away too much info, we're a decent-sized company (with our own HR department). One would think my employer would be familiar with employment laws.

 

[GoodWorker32]

Employees might indeed have something to gain by exchanging salary information. Some may find out they are paid a whole lot less for the same work others do. This is exactly why employers don't want the employees to share pay information. They don't want those lesser paid employees seeking more money to match their peers. Federal law, as already mentioned in this thread, prohibits the employer from preventing employees from sharing such information, but many employees are not aware of that. I happen to live in a state where the employer must state in the job listings the salary or salary range for any positions that they are seeking to fill. This follows a new trend to require more transparency in employee pay. So whether "bad form" or not, it may be the case in the future in some states that other employees will know what you make because the law will require the employer to disclose it. And it's not like this would be something totally new. In federal government employment, for example, one can get a pretty idea of what a particular employee is paid simply by knowing the position and grade of the employee.

Your post sums up the reason I suspect my employer doesn't want us discussing raises/pay. If word gets out when an employee gets a raise, lesser-paid employees will become bitter.

 

[cbg]

I have a co-worker who is convinced that other members of our team are making more than she is. In actual fact, I have access to what everyone else is making and she makes the same as I do, which is considerably more than anyone else on the team. I am senior to her, but she is senior to the rest of the team, and that seniority is reflected in our comp. But when she starts complaining about it, my mouth stays firmly shut. Whatever the NLRB may allow, I don't feel that I have the right to talk about anyone's comp but my own; others may not want their information released. I know I don't want mine released. And we're already union. So even though I know she's on the wrong train, let alone the wrong track, I'd rather listen to her whine than give out information that it's really none of my business to give.

 

[GoodWorker32]

I have a co-worker who is convinced that other members of our team are making more than she is. In actual fact, I have access to what everyone else is making and she makes the same as I do, which is considerably more than anyone else on the team. I am senior to her, but she is senior to the rest of the team, and that seniority is reflected in our comp. But when she starts complaining about it, my mouth stays firmly shut. Whatever the NLRB may allow, I don't feel that I have the right to talk about anyone's comp but my own; others may not want their information released. I know I don't want mine released. And we're already union. So even though I know she's on the wrong train, let alone the wrong track, I'd rather listen to her whine than give out information that it's really none of my business to give.

I totally agree it would be inappropriate of you to give out other employees' wage rates.

This thread, however, is about employers telling employees not to share their own pay rate.

 

[army judge]

I totally agree it would be inappropriate of you to give out other employees' wage rates.

This thread, however, is about employers telling employees not to share their own pay rate.

 

[GoodWorker32]

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I finally had a chance to check out your links (on a prior post you made on this thread). Your links were informative. Much-appreciated.

My takeaway from your links is that my employer is able to prohibit us from discussing pay on the job; just not on our personal time. In that case, easier to simply not discuss at all (as there are very few coworkers I have contact with outside of work).

Unfortunately, one particular coworker (who I don't have contact with outside work) is extremely focused on the topic of pay/raises. Let's call her Lisa (not her real name). Furthermore, Lisa is an extremely persistent person in general. If Lisa ever asks me about pay/raises, I guarantee she won't let up until I cave (and tell her). I certainly hope Lisa doesn't ask.

 

[army judge]

Unfortunately, one particular coworker (who I don't have contact with outside work) is extremely focused on the topic of pay/raises. Let's call her Lisa (not her real name). Furthermore, Lisa is an extremely persistent person in general. If Lisa ever asks me about pay/raises, I guarantee she won't let up until I cave (and tell her). I certainly hope Lisa doesn't ask.

She might be persistent, but you can be pleasant and resistant.

If someone pesters you, all you need to do is say, "Excuse me, I have some very pressing work that I must complete. I am not much for chatting, as I'm an introvert. Please don't think I'm rude, but I must complete my assigned duties."

Then quickly and smartly DISAPPEAR yourself.

Keep repeating the phrase, and always DISAPPEAR yourself.

Even rude, probing, persistent pests eventually get that message.

Stay strong, warrior, stay strong.

 

[GoodWorker32]

She might be persistent, but you can be pleasant and resistant.

If someone pesters you, all you need to do is say, "Excuse me, I have some very pressing work that I must complete. I am not much for chatting, as I'm an introvert. Please don't think I'm rude, but I must complete my assigned duties."

Then quickly and smartly DISAPPEAR yourself.

Keep repeating the phrase, and always DISAPPEAR yourself.

Even rude, probing, persistent pests eventually get that message.

Stay strong, warrior, stay strong.

She has a track record of cornering me during break/lunch time (which is, unfortunately, the one time I wouldn't be able to disappear back into my work). She's pestered me into sharing other personal things before. When I initially refuse, she'll pull out the old "Don't worry; I won't tell anyone"

 

[army judge]

She has a track record of cornering me during break/lunch time (which is, unfortunately, the one time I wouldn't be able to disappear back into my work). She's pestered me into sharing other personal things before. When I initially refuse, she'll pull out the old "Don't worry; I won't tell anyone"

Anytime someone tells you he/she/it "won't blab, as sure as the sun is hot, whatever you say will be spread like a deadly communicable disease".

You don't have to tolerate rude inquisitors.

Mate, be an adult, smile pleasantly, wave goodbye, and RELOCATE your CARCASS immediately, without further response.

Silent messages are also communicative.

By the way, mate, God gave you a spine.

Your spine allows you to stand tall and proud.

Don't humble yourself to anyone.

One final thought, LISA (or others of her ilk) might be working for your superiors.

The police, FBI, CIA, etc... have snitches.

Another reason to shut yer yapper, relative to anything, you never know WHY the inquisitor is asking.

You also don't know for whom the inquisitor is asking.

Gossip is bad for business. In fact, here are 5 good reasons you must not engage in gossip.

Gossip Destroys Your Trustworthiness
People do business with people they know, like and trust. If you gossip, people assume you talk about them too when they're not around. So they don't trust you. Gossip drags a relationship through the mud, soiling it and debasing it. Gossip destroys trust and kills relationships.

Gossip Ruins Reputations
You may think your "juicy tidbits" are harmless. But remember you are planting seeds of opinion about someone in another's heart. Those seeds take root in a subtle and powerful way. Their roots spread out to others. Before you know it, these weeds of gossip choke out all that is good, ruining reputations.

Gossip Makes You Look Worse
The person you're speaking with may seem delighted to hear the "news." But you can be certain their opinion of you is diminished. They're thinking, "If this is how he talks about his friends, then I don't want to associate with him." The nature of gossip means that you're breaking confidences. That, or you're spreading lies. Either way, it tarnishes your character.

Gossip can Get You Into Legal Trouble
Your gossip may find its way to the wrong ears (it always does). When this happens, it can damage your career and business relationships. And it's not uncommon to be sued for slander. You can never retrieve a careless word spoken. "What goes around, comes around." And, "We reap what we sow."

The Bible Teaches Against It
Now you may think, "Okay, here we go, the Bible is such a killjoy!" But God, in His wisdom, gave us these instructions for our own good and protection. He knows how destructive and damaging gossip is. He urges us, "Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up." — Ephesians [4:29]

And, "Be ready to do whatever is good, to slander no one, to be peaceable and considerate, and always to be gentle toward everyone." — Titus 3:2 Now that's the kind of behavior that builds trust and cultivates relationships!
Remember those ads with Smokey the Bear that said, "Only you can prevent forest fires?" It's the same with gossip. Only you and I can prevent it. Only we can stop it spreading.

Let's agree to a pact. If what we're saying isn't building people up, let's recognize it's tearing them down. Let's agree not to do that. Instead, let's treat each other with respect and dignity. Let's pull the weeds of gossip out of our lives and sow seeds of kindness and grace instead. This is good for us, our relationships, and our business.


5 Reasons Why You Must Not Gossip | Ray Edwards
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[Tax Counsel]

Let's agree to a pact. If what we're saying isn't building people up, let's recognize it's tearing them down. Let's agree not to do that. Instead, let's treat each other with respect and dignity. Let's pull the weeds of gossip out of our lives and sow seeds of kindness and grace instead. This is good for us, our relationships, and our business.

I agree that's a great approach. If those posting on internet forums applied this approach, many of those forums would be a lot less toxic than they are now. Sadly, internet forum providers like Facebook, Twitter, etc., have found that division, controversy, and hate drive more eyeballs to their sites than kindness does, and their algorithms for deciding which posts to display take that into account, reinforcing that attitude and making it worse. I'd like to think society can do better, but the cynic in me is very pessimistic of that happening anytime soon.