please help

[rose0000]

Jurisdiction

Missouri

ok, here goes.
Was married for the first time at age 27. Had first child with husband at 29.
Shortly after our child was born, my husband became very depressed, angry, abusive. The entire family figured it was some type of new father anxiety reaction or just a bad faze. After nearly 3 years of hell, I filed for divorce and moved in with a female friend of mine. Found out my female friend was actually sleeping with my husband from which I had recently legally separated. So, being an idiot, knowing nothing about the divorce process, I moved in with a man I had known for over 8years, and began a relationship. Ended up pregnant(yea, I don't know WHAT I was thinking) it didn't work out, moved back in with my husband when I was 7 months pregnant. My husband knew it wasn't his baby. I knew it wasn't his baby. The whole family knew but we wanted to give our marriage another try and decided to put him on the birth certificate and live happily ever after. Well, as you can probably guess, it didn't work out. Not at all.
Things got much worse, he was arrested for domestic violence/assault when the baby was 6 months old. After that, I had a full order of protection and he had supervised visitation with the children. That was SEVERAL years ago. His visitation never changed from supervised to unsupervised because he never followed any plans by the judge for the transition so his visits remained supervised for nearly 6 years.
Meanwhile, I moved in with my new husband about a year after my husband was arrested. We were living together, unmarried, for a long time. It was very hard divorcing my ex husband because he made everything very difficult. So, I lived with my husband(we were finally able to marry after my divorce finally happened 2 years ago), for a few years and had another child before I was able to divorce my ex husband. I know it sounds horrible. It was. We mostly just lived like a happy family and forgot about the ex. The children still went to the court ordered supervised visits but the ex showed up maybe once every six weeks. Sometimes not for months at a time.
My ex husband never bonded with the child who was not technically his. He was arrested when she was 6 months old, rarely showed up for visitation and overall doesn't seem to care for her. I think the only reason he has not contested the paternity is because his parents adore her. He does what his parents want. They pay all of his bills, always, including child support. After our separation, he has mostly just been on drugs and never had a real job or any interest in either of the children.
My daughter is now 6 years old. My ex husband is in more trouble, now, for abusing our son, our first child, who is now 9. It wasn't bad enough abuse to be prosecuted but enough to piss off the judge some more. The grandparents(they enable the ex to never get his act together) are afraid the judge will be taking away more of the ex's rights and access to the children. So, the grandparents have hired a lawyer to get separate, third party visitation to both children, separate from the ex.
My husband and I have a very good, happy, healthy life with our children except for the drama brought about by my ex husband and his parents. My husband has been living with me and my children since 2011. We have a child together, my 6 year old's little sister. They love each other and even share a room... except for when my son and 6 year old daughter always are required to leave for visitations-when the ex rarely shows up. The grandparents are threatening to take the children for separate visitation, giving my son and 6year old less time here. Is this a good time to maybe let the judge know that my 6 year old is not my ex's biological child or will the judge likely slap me for bringing it up after all of this? I know I cant keep my son out of the toxic situation with visiting the ex and grandparents but if I can save my 6 year old from it all, shouldn't I try? Or no?

 

[army judge]

Is this a good time to maybe let the judge know that my 6 year old is not my ex's biological child or will the judge likely slap me for bringing it up after all of this?

The child you delivered while married to LARRY, even though you suspect the child to that of HARRY's, is legally LARRY's child.

Yes, LARRY, not HARRY is the putative father of THAT child.

After six years of the child's life, why say anything?
You have broken no laws, as what I've described is the law in each of the 50 US states and its territories.

Silence is our friend, in many more ways than any of us can imagine.

I tell my wife, our children, and a few of my friends, "I will take many things to the grave with me."

None of those things are crimes, in fact, ALL of those things involve things people have told me over the decades.

A very dear friend of mine was convicted of a felony, 40 years ago.
Today he is a respected attorney, business person, and local elected official.
He told me during a conversation we had 35 years ago.
Why me?
My mother always said people like to talk to me.
Who knows why, all I know is that's its NOT for me to blab about something revealed to me in confidence.

I can't and won't tell you what to do.
I am only saying that that child is legally the child of the man to whom you were married.
In fact, without a DNA test, even science can't be sure, which is why the laws affirms paternity in the man to whom you were married.

I know I cant keep my son out of the toxic situation with visiting the ex and grandparents but if I can save my 6 year old from it all, shouldn't I try? Or no?

You certainly can shelter your child from GOSSIPS, and salacious rumors.

In fact, its the duty of parents to do their level best to protect their children in manner that is legal.

Stop talking about things you may have done in your life.

Take those burdens to a psychologist, psychiatrist, a deity you worship, a religious official, or your journal.

The power of a human tongue lies in its ability to affirm and love in order to initiate and build relationships.

The negative potential does not bring physical death to a person, but the end of relationship and the wounding of a heart.

Don't wound hearts, heal hearts.

 

[army judge]

Your issue about any grandparent seeking visitation should have been pursued as a part of your divorce proceeding.

I suggest you simply stop communicating with negative people, or listening to negative things.

This silly video supports my philosophy of listening to "bad news" or what i call gossip:
...

...


The statute in MO, read it for yourself:
...
Section: 452.0402 Grandparent's visitation rights granted, when, terminated, when--guardian ad litem appointed, when--attorney fees and costs assessed, when. RSMO 452.402
...

 

[rose0000]

Thank you. I appreciate your input. There is currently a guardian ad litem involved because of the ex husband's abuse of our son. The judge ordered visitation between my son and the ex only when at the therapist's office. But the mediator was telling me I should give ex another chance for visitation because the abuse wasn't bad enough to warrant ending visitation and if I don't help make a new parenting plan including giving ex another try to not abuse our son, the judge may be harsh on both of us(me and the ex).
I guess I should have explained more of this, earlier. I was just trying not to make it too long.
The court has ordered visitation be supervised by the grandparents since 2011. My ex usually didn't show but the few times he did show up, the ex tends to blow his top on our son. This last time was really bad but since the grandparents didn't want my ex in jail, they lied and said nothing happened. Everyone believed my son enough for the court to restrict visitation to only with a therapist but no enough for criminal charges(because the grandparents are calling the 9 year old a liar). So, its a big mess. I was just thinking maybe I should play the dna/paternity card to get my 6 year old out of the middle of this all. Army judge, you are likely correct. I'm usually of the same thinking. Ive just been 2nd guessing myself because my instincts are telling me to save the kid I can save since I don't know when the next time it will be when my ex gets more flexible visitation. Its very hard to restrict visitation in Missouri. It seems as if you can be a violent, unpredictable, documented meth head but until a child ends up dead or injured enough for a hospital stay, the bad parent gets as many chances as they need.

 

[army judge]

A bad parent usually gets visitation in all the other states, not just MO.

Supervised visitation is what you should seek for everyone, that way you don't have to be harangued by the grandparents, and you can ensure the kid is protected.

I don't know why anyone told you what you were told, but look at this way.

From this moment forward, only consider what is in the best interests of the child.

Supervised visitation is great when nutballs and whackjobs are involved, so seek them at least for six or nine more months.

Work with the guardian ad litem, and your attorney to make sure that happens.

Going forward, that way you won't have to worry about any nonsense.

 

[Disabled Vet]

Thank you. I appreciate your input. There is currently a guardian ad litem involved because of the ex husband's abuse of our son. The judge ordered visitation between my son and the ex only when at the therapist's office. But the mediator was telling me I should give ex another chance for visitation because the abuse wasn't bad enough to warrant ending visitation and if I don't help make a new parenting plan including giving ex another try to not abuse our son, the judge may be harsh on both of us(me and the ex).
I guess I should have explained more of this, earlier. I was just trying not to make it too long.
The court has ordered visitation be supervised by the grandparents since 2011. My ex usually didn't show but the few times he did show up, the ex tends to blow his top on our son. This last time was really bad but since the grandparents didn't want my ex in jail, they lied and said nothing happened. Everyone believed my son enough for the court to restrict visitation to only with a therapist but no enough for criminal charges(because the grandparents are calling the 9 year old a liar). So, its a big mess. I was just thinking maybe I should play the dna/paternity card to get my 6 year old out of the middle of this all. Army judge, you are likely correct. I'm usually of the same thinking. Ive just been 2nd guessing myself because my instincts are telling me to save the kid I can save since I don't know when the next time it will be when my ex gets more flexible visitation. Its very hard to restrict visitation in Missouri. It seems as if you can be a violent, unpredictable, documented meth head but until a child ends up dead or injured enough for a hospital stay, the bad parent gets as many chances as they need.

By the sound of it... Your instincts have been WAY OFF..... I think it might be time to listen to someone else. I think your doing your daughter big harm as SHE will NEVER know her real father because you. You might not be giving your children phyiscal abuse... but rest assured your going to drain them with mental abuse. Once they get old enough to understand and the ex, grandparents tell her. He isn't your real dad anyway...... Then what? You going to let your instincts guide the already great choices you have made in life. 3 children, 3 fathers..... Maybe it's time for a day planner so you can write which father picks up which child on what day... I feel for you children..

 

[rose0000]

Yes, I had one child with a man to whom I was not married. I was married to the first man with which I had the first child and am still happily married to the 3rd man with which I had the 3rd(last) child. I screwed up with the middle child, obviously, but I cant go back 7 years and correct it, I can only look for a solution for the present and future.
I understand the story reads bad but most people(including the guardian ad litem and judge) seem to think I am a very good mother, in general. I had a child with a man to whom I was not married, several years ago, but besides that, people don't usually speak of me as you just did. But I do appreciate your input. The story does sound really bad. And I'm sure you aren't the only one who may share your feelings about the situation. I would have probably said the same stuff. I never thought this could be my life.

 

[ElleMD]

You have 3 children by 3 difference men in a very short period of time, but because you were legally married to the first ex, all 3 children have the same legal father. Biology is only a small part. If none of these other men bother to challenge paternity in court to be recognized as the father, Hubby #1 remains their legal father forever. That includes kid #3 with your current hubby. Had you waited until you were no longer married to have more children, you could have avoided this. I suggest you speak with a family law attorney as your situation is quite complicated. Keep in mind, Baby Daddy #2 can challenge paternity until the child is 18.

 

[rose0000]

My 3rd child, my husband's child, DOES have my husband's(her actual biological father) on her birth certificate. I do understand the confusion, however, since I did say it took years to divorce my ex-husband.
After my ex-husband was arrested for domestic assault(and it was a HUGE ordeal,2 hour police standoff, swat team, the works...we were in the papers and on the news), I had absolutely no contact with him for about 5 years or more. I still, to this day, have never had a phone conversation with him since 2011 or stood in a room with him, except for court rooms. Absolutely no contact. I was just afraid to deal with him, again. He was so unpredictable. He wasn't bothering me so I moved on and didn't bother him. I was afraid filing for divorce might cause waves or provoke him in some way. I was avoiding bothering him.
So, I lived as I was divorced. Made a new life. Had a new baby with my new love. I didn't deal with the past so now the past is dealing with me....
Anyway, so, yea. Baby #2 is the only one with the wrong daddy on the birth certificate because until now, Ive always been too intimidated by my ex to make any moves. The only reason I consider attempting to challenge paternity of my #2 child is because my ex has grown more abusive over the years and I feel like I should do whatever I can to get her out of the bad environment. Unfortunately, in Missouri, you can beat your child at the police station with a meth pipe in your mouth and still get next weekend's visitation as long as you are the legal father. Here, the courts are very protective of parental rights.

 

[army judge]

Please, don't explain any life choices you've made.
Why?
Because you alone are the master of your life.
We've all made god and bad decisions, and occasionally we get dumped upon without a choice.

Okay, you must understand that placing a father's name on a birth certificate has no legal significance when you're married.
In fact, when you're unmarried, a father's name on a birth certificate doesn't mean he's the putative father.

Okay, please understand, that as far as ANY married woman who carries and takes to term a child conceived from the sperm of any man NOT her husband, sad child is legally the issue of her and her spouse, estranged spouse or not.

In your case, all three children you've birthed ave only one father, insofar as the law is concerned.

It matters not why you and the savage you married didn't divorce.
That brute IS the PUTATIVE father of all of your children.
The names you placed on the birth certificate's of the children COULD mean nothing.

Why?

Today DNA testing proves without any doubt or argument just who is the biological father of the child.

People concern themselves with the surnames of some children, meaningless 17th century drivel.

Which, in my opinion, is how I think about the archaic system of who is the father of the child.

Yet, such is the 11th century thinking that rules us today.
Nevertheless, it s the law, subject to 21st century technology and a legal challenge, your former spouse is LEGALLY the father of ALL the children you've birthed.

Please, just stop and think about all of this.

Take three days, a week, a month and just think.

As you think, it can only help you to seek counseling to help you process this newly discovered information that's recently been revealed to you.

In addition, meet with at least three domestic relations or family aw attorneys in your county.

Discretion is assured as you meet with the three lawyers.

You can ask the lawyers "just who is the putative father f my three babies"?

Don't worry about costs, as lawyers meet with potential clients for free to allow an initial discussion of a person's issues. You'll have 15-30 minutes at discuss your concerns.

Women's counseling, support, and protection organizations are available in many jurisdictions. Those groups help women process these devastating revelations.

I wish you well, and offer my time to answer any legal questions this might cause you to have.

Take your time, move slowly, but first come to understand just what it is, not what you may ave believed, has transpired regarding your babies.

I'm so sorry you've had to learn the truth this way, as no one wanted to hurt you.

My mother aways taught me, "Son, that truth we aggressively seek can most often be devastating when it appears. It's usually best not to look under rocks, because we usually find very dangerous things hiding there."

 

[rose0000]

Army judge, I really appreciate all of the time and effort you have put into helping me. I can tell what a good natured person you are.
In trying to make sure my previous post included all pertinent information, its obvious I forgot to add something: When I finally did divorce my ex husband, the judge acknowledged and included in my divorce documents that my 3rd child is that of my current husband and not my ex husband. My husband even had to come to court with me and my ex-husband because of that fact.
That's when I should have dealt with baby #2 but didn't.

 

[rose0000]

I will be discussing this all with my lawyer, as you have suggested. Actually, I may talk to a few of them, as you've suggested.
thank you.

 

[army judge]

Army judge, I really appreciate all of the time and effort you have put into helping me. I can tell what a good natured person you are.
In trying to make sure my previous post included all pertinent information, its obvious I forgot to add something: When I finally did divorce my ex husband, the judge acknowledged and included in my divorce documents that my 3rd child is that of my current husband and not my ex husband. My husband even had to come to court with me and my ex-husband because of that fact.
That's when I should have dealt with baby #2 but didn't.

You're kind to say such nice things about me, thank you.

The judge may have included the information about your 2nd child, but it may not have reversed the archaic laws about paternity.

In fact, I know in Texas it wouldn't, but in MO I'm clueless.
That's another thing you can ask your lawyer.
Normally what occurred doesn't rise to an adoption, or revocation of your 1st husband's paternity.

I can say that your situation is probably the most complicated paternity issue(s) I've seen in many years.

I hope you get it resolved and everyone gets back to being a happy family.

 

[leslie82]

My 3rd child, my husband's child, DOES have my husband's(her actual biological father) on her birth certificate. I do understand the confusion, however, since I did say it took years to divorce my ex-husband.
After my ex-husband was arrested for domestic assault(and it was a HUGE ordeal,2 hour police standoff, swat team, the works...we were in the papers and on the news), I had absolutely no contact with him for about 5 years or more. I still, to this day, have never had a phone conversation with him since 2011 or stood in a room with him, except for court rooms. Absolutely no contact. I was just afraid to deal with him, again. He was so unpredictable. He wasn't bothering me so I moved on and didn't bother him. I was afraid filing for divorce might cause waves or provoke him in some way. I was avoiding bothering him.
So, I lived as I was divorced. Made a new life. Had a new baby with my new love. I didn't deal with the past so now the past is dealing with me....
Anyway, so, yea. Baby #2 is the only one with the wrong daddy on the birth certificate because until now, Ive always been too intimidated by my ex to make any moves. The only reason I consider attempting to challenge paternity of my #2 child is because my ex has grown more abusive over the years and I feel like I should do whatever I can to get her out of the bad environment. Unfortunately, in Missouri, you can beat your child at the police station with a meth pipe in your mouth and still get next weekend's visitation as long as you are the legal father. Here, the courts are very protective of parental rights.

You might want to re-read what you wrote: " So, I lived with my husband(we were finally able to marry after my divorce finally happened 2 years ago), for a few years and had another child before I was able to divorce my ex husband."

You were still legally married to your first husband when you had all three children. So legally all three the dad is husband 1. So you didn't file until five years after he was arrested? So you were still married for five years after he was arrested and then you had a baby while still married to him. Just because you put your current husband on the birth certificate doesn't really mean anything. Your first husband could be a douche and say he's the legal father.

No that's not entirely true in Missouri that you could beat your child in the police station with a meth pipe and still get visitation as the legal father. They won't completely take visitation no. They'd most likely give supervised. Has your ex beaten one of your kids with a meth pipe in his mouth at a police station? Or anyone you know? Otherwise that's a bit dramatic. Most states will try to keep parents and kids together yes.

You can have the biological father of #2 fight it in court. Otherwise nothing will happen. But legally all three kids have #1 as dad. If you want to get technical.