Need advice - hate forums

[lawseeker]

I post on a public forum that is very big and requires registration and is closely moderated and patrolled. Someone create a spin-off forum that enables people who participate in the big forum to go and post up what they hate about people (as the original forum is strict about this type of posting).

On this board, people tend to demonstrate somewhat crazy behavior, including talking about how they use tactics to obtain personal addresses and post them up, how they save people's photos, and then steadily post up hateful and sometimes relatively scary things about those who are the objects of their hatred. The site states it is protected by the First Amendement. Is this accurate?

The reason I am asking is that there are a group of women - adults, which is scary, that are convinced that I have played a role in some of the "bashes" of one of their friends. I have not. As a result, they post up pages and pages and pages about me, sometimes for hours on end. Recently, one became convinced that I played a role in sharing somebody's personal information. In retaliation, they have posted up an actual address, and telephone number close to me. I am not sure how it was obtained, but I believe it may have come from somebody sending me something (I would never share my actual address with somebody I don't know).

The result is in theory someone from that board - or from anywhere on the Web, could locate me. I no longer post on any forums, but wonder - are hate sites like this actually protected under the first amendment, and can I take action against this site or its posters? Because I am relatively certain how the information was located and by who, do I have any grounds for legal action?

 

[NYClex]

Hm, privacy jurisprudence is still developing. But first things first, a few days ago someone had asked the same question here. The First Amendment basically protects speech against government censorship. But speech is not always the same, the courts have established that hate speech, threats, obscenity and so on are not protected speech.

The First amendment also is not a defense against what the law calls libel and slander, publicly distributing statements about people that you know or should know are wrong and are degrading or otherwise harmful to that person.

So the practice of what is going on on that forum sounds pretty fishy to me.

Now, about posting personal information about someone, this is still a tricky area in law. It depends on your reasonable expectiations of privacy for example, if you can protect it or not. Example: If your address and phone number are being published in the White Pages or any other phone book and if I can find them easily on the net by going to AT&T and the like, then you don't really have a case against someone else posting it on the net. It has been public all the time for those looking for it.

So the point here really is what kind of information is being published, in what context and where did they obtain it and is it potentially harmful.

Example: They post your address online, which they found in the phonebook, because you were careless enough to post your real name. Tough luck.

They post the same address next to a picture of a guy doing it with a goat and saying this is you. Here you have a case against them.

So each case is different and one cannot say anything about your case without knowing all the details.

 

[Michael Wechsler]

I had the opportunity to deal with one of the largest forums on the Internet and saw something occur on a regular basis -- people using legal terms that they don't understand and turn and twist them to explain why their unlawful behavior is perfectly permissible under the law.

My personal favorite is "freedom of speech." Many believe means that they are free to say whatever they want provided they don't physically hurt anyone. This is not true, as you know and as NYClex explained with regard to the inability of this freedom to protect one from defamation. Many actually believe they have extended freedoms -- "freedom of expression" -- without ever taking a good look at the law, their potential responsibilities for direct and indirect (contributory) conduct, and the repercussions of pushing the envelope.

NYClex made some good (and funny) points regarding privacies. There are some states that have privacy laws and I believe there are some that protect against someone else casting another in a 'false light' that would denigrate them almost to the level of a remark that would be slanderous.

Here is a scary fact -- your personal information can be found in a number of places that you might not consider public but are. There are companies that collect this information, which is why it is 'legal' to sell it since it has technically been released to the public. There are some restrictions but I think it likely that there will more privacy laws being promulgated as the problem grows. In NY a councilman has been trying to push a law banning picture cell phones in areas that privacy is expected, e.g. private health clubs, for the obvious reasons.

Getting back to your question, I wouldn't doubt that several of the tactics discussed are illegal. Additionally, if they contributed to someone else's signficiant harm then there are legal theories that many judges might like to extend if they don't currently, e.g. tort theory of intentional/negligent infliction of emotional distress. With regard to talk on forums -- I'd ignore it. The 'damages' are usually slight when you think about it, although you feel like you have been chased from a place where you should have a right to be without intrusion. The cost of prosecuting such a claim is almost always higher than the award.

In this instance maybe you would want to leave the forum (it sounds like a place you play at your own risk) or register under a new name. Additionally, if you did engage in some of the illegal festivities you would come into court with 'unclean hands' and might be precluded from the protections you seek.

When did I get calls about serious actions on forums? I'd receive occasional calls from the FBI regarding people using our mail and forum system to perpetrate frauds and they would like to obtain the registration information of that individual and IP addresses, if possible. There was a police chief whose wife allegedly had an affair and someone was posting secret pictures that were taken under an alias in our forum and one of his guys from the State PD had called. Another time there was an issue of someone who might have been libeled as having AIDS and communicating it to others.

Originally posted by lawseeker
I post on a public forum that is very big and requires registration and is closely moderated and patrolled. Someone create a spin-off forum that enables people who participate in the big forum to go and post up what they hate about people (as the original forum is strict about this type of posting).

On this board, people tend to demonstrate somewhat crazy behavior, including talking about how they use tactics to obtain personal addresses and post them up, how they save people's photos, and then steadily post up hateful and sometimes relatively scary things about those who are the objects of their hatred. The site states it is protected by the First Amendement. Is this accurate?

The reason I am asking is that there are a group of women - adults, which is scary, that are convinced that I have played a role in some of the "bashes" of one of their friends. I have not. As a result, they post up pages and pages and pages about me, sometimes for hours on end. Recently, one became convinced that I played a role in sharing somebody's personal information. In retaliation, they have posted up an actual address, and telephone number close to me. I am not sure how it was obtained, but I believe it may have come from somebody sending me something (I would never share my actual address with somebody I don't know).

The result is in theory someone from that board - or from anywhere on the Web, could locate me. I no longer post on any forums, but wonder - are hate sites like this actually protected under the first amendment, and can I take action against this site or its posters? Because I am relatively certain how the information was located and by who, do I have any grounds for legal action?

 

[lawseeker]

This is great feedback

I have definitely left all forums - one Internet sick person is all you need to remind you the world can be dangerous. I had never posted my address, but I did share it with somebody offline (she sent me something I purchased from her), which was dumb.

I do think I want to look in further on the forum itself though. What aspects of postings or activity would be considered illegal?

 

[NYClex]

any kind of activity that would also be illegal offline.

If I produce 1000 fliers with the message "Michael Sxxxxx is having sex with 5 year old children every Saturday at noon", knowing that every Saturday at noon poor Michael Sxxxx actually is forced to have lunch with his mother in law, and I post these fliers all over the neighborhood on lamp posts and trees then I am guilty of defamation and Michael can sue me.

If I post the same on an internet forum I am guilty as well.


If I post fliers on lampposts calling for all people to burn down Steven P.'s house because Steven is of Martian-American ethnicity then I am guilty of a hate crime. If I do that on the net, I am as guilty.

And so on. The net doesn't really give anybody any freedom they did not have before, or censors anything that had not been censored before. It is just that the net seems to make things easier and that you can get away with more.