Moving out of state with children

[dumpy2411]

Hello all, hoping someone here can help me out.

My girlfriend and I have been dating long distance for over two years now. I live in Nebraska, she in Arizona. We've recently started planning on her moving here to Nebraska.

She has two children with two different fathers. She is in the process of finalizing her divorce with the father of her second child. It's an amicable split and he has already granted permission for them to move.

The potential problem is with the father of her first child. Until a few months ago he was not a part of the child's life (he's 6 now), in fact he had not seen nor made any effort to see his child despite living in the same town. Suddenly he decided he wanted to get to know his child and has seen him a handful of times in the last few months.

My girlfriend informed him of her desire to move and asked for his permission a month or two ago and he's been dragging his feet ever since. He said he's afraid of her being a "vindictive woman" and denying him visitation once he grants permission for her to move, and that he wants to wait until the end of May to give permission.

If he decides not to give permission, what are our legal options? Are there any? What would be our chances of winning? He does pay child support and has since the child was born, but there is no custody agreement of any kind.

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[Proserpina]

Please - don't shoot this messenger

You are not party to this and as a stepparent myself, I'm going to warn you now...lose the "we" from your mindset when it comes to her kids. You're expected (and I know - believe me, I know!) to love and cherish her and the kids...but keep several steps back when it comes to legal matters involving the kids.

Now for the bad news. Mom has several problems here.

The burden of proof in AZ is on the parent wishing to relocate to show the court that the move is in the child's best interest. Several factors are considered, but an important factor in AZ is whether or not the move would feasibly allow the other parent adequate parenting time. Is Mom going to be able to meet that expectation?

Is she able to bear the cost of transportation to and from Dad's?

Also, given that Dad has decided that he wants to be Dad now, the court may be extremely reluctant to thwart his attempts by allowing the relocation.

Plus, she's planning to move to a boyfriend when she's not even divorced yet. While that doesn't usually matter much in the more northern states, the further south we go the more likely it is to be held against her.

Quite honestly she needs to high-tail it to an attorney in AZ. The attorney will be able to guide her further. She does NOT want to move without permission/notifying all involved.

Quick question though - why can't you move to where she lives?

 

[dumpy2411]

Thank you for the response.

Good point on the "we" stuff, I'll keep that in mind.

She has an agreement with her soon to be ex-husband (who is the father of both kids for all intents and purposes, except legally) that the kids will stay with him in the summers. Daddy number one is also aware of this arrangement, and number 2 knows number 1 will have visitation.

For the sake of this conversation let's just assume that me moving there isn't an option.

 

[Proserpina]

Then she may find herself sorely disappointed in court.

Does she have a better paying job to go to? Are YOU earning enough to support ALL of them without her working and WITHOUT child support?

How about the other questions though? The parts about her paying for all transportation to and from?

 

[dumpy2411]

The primary reason why she is moving here rather than me there is that I have a good paying job here and its unlikely I'd be able to find an equal or greater paying job there.

Yes, I am earning enough to support all of them without child support and without her working.

As far as transportation costs go, I suppose it depends on how often we're talking about. I can't afford a plane ticket every week.

 

[dumpy2411]

She* can't afford a plane ticket every week.

 

[Proserpina]

This is boiling down to what you and her want.

It's not really going into what's best for the child.

These are not easy decisions to make - but she especially needs to be thinking about her child. Dad is wanting to be Dad - is really in the child's best interest to move how many miles away? And see Dad very sporadically?

There is another option which I know - yes, I know - won't be very palatable to either of you. She can move with the other child, absolutely. And she can let Other Dad have custody - that would solve the issue immediately.

She of course would become the NCP and be liable to pay child support. And again, I know it's not a popular option. But, Dad IS starting to be involved. Why is it in the child's best interest to thwart that process?

 

[army judge]

OP, this might be a good time to reconsider a relationship with this woman.
It then becomes YOU, and not WE or HER.
You didn't ask, and I apologize for "going there", but you impress me as an upstanding individual, that doesn't have THESE kinds of problems in his life.
I don't know why, only you do.
However, it probably boils down to you making the RIGHT choices, more often than making the WRONG choices.
I wouldn't want this drama in my life, do you?
Whatever you choose to do, good luck.
Isn't it great to NOT be encumbered with these types of problems in your life?
Don't you want it to stay that way?

 

[dumpy2411]

This is boiling down to what you and her want.

It's not really going into what's best for the child.

These are not easy decisions to make - but she especially needs to be thinking about her child. Dad is wanting to be Dad - is really in the child's best interest to move how many miles away? And see Dad very sporadically?

There is another option which I know - yes, I know - won't be very palatable to either of you. She can move with the other child, absolutely. And she can let Other Dad have custody - that would solve the issue immediately.

She of course would become the NCP and be liable to pay child support. And again, I know it's not a popular option. But, Dad IS starting to be involved. Why is it in the child's best interest to thwart that process?

Thank you again for all the quick responses.

I'm getting the impression that its unlikely the court would grant her permission to move. Could Mom convince a judge that its in the best interest of the child? Certainly I could provide more financial stability, a loving home with a step dad that would always be there, and a great, safe environment to grow up in. Would that be enough? I suspect not.

It's a frustrating situation. We're talking about a guy who dumped his girlfriend when he found out she was pregnant and made no attempt to see his son for almost six years. Then he suddenly decides he wants to play daddy, and even then he just makes lame excuses why he was MIA for years, then makes even more lame excuses why he doesn't see his son more often now that he is somewhat in his life. It's frustrating because legally this all apparently means little or nothing.

I realize its hard to judge a situation based on only a few lines of text, but I can assure you we're both thinking about what's best for the child(ren).

 

[dumpy2411]

OP, this might be a good time to reconsider a relationship with this woman.
It then becomes YOU, and not WE or HER.
You didn't ask, and I apologize for "going there", but you impress me as an upstanding individual, that doesn't have THESE kinds of problems in his life.
I don't know why, only you do.
However, it probably boils down to you making the RIGHT choices, more often than making the WRONG choices.
I wouldn't want this drama in my life, do you?
Whatever you choose to do, good luck.
Isn't it great to NOT be encumbered with these types of problems in your life?
Don't you want it to stay that way?

Not to be rude, but I'm here for legal advice, not personal. If you have no legal advice to offer then I'm not interested in what you have to say.

 

[Proserpina]

OP..can I ask you (boldly perhaps) some personal questions?

How often have you and Mom spent time together? How much time have you spent with her being a Mom?

How much time have you spent with Mom and the kids? As a unit?

I know you said you have a long distance relationship - this is, in part, through the internet yes?

How did you meet? You've been online dating for two years and she's only now getting around to a divorce? Why the delay? Ask her the same questions, OP.

No red flags are popping up for you?

 

[Proserpina]

Not to be rude, but I'm here for legal advice, not personal. If you have no legal advice to offer then I'm not interested in what you have to say.

Come on - that was a little rude.

And this is not YOUR legal matter at all. There is NO legal information to be offered to you beyond that which was given. And trust me - that was a favor. You know, because you're a "legal stranger".

Mom can sign up herself. She's a big girl, right?

 

[dumpy2411]

OP..can I ask you (boldly perhaps) some personal questions?

How often have you and Mom spent together? How much time have you spent with her being a Mom?

How much time have you spent with Mom and the kids? As a unit?

I know you said you have a long distance relationship - this is, in part, through the internet yes?

How did you meet? You've been online dating for two years and she's only now getting around to a divorce? Why the delay? Ask her the same questions, OP.

No red flags are popping up for you?

I understand your questions. Like I said, its difficult to understand the situation based only on a few lines of text. But no, there are no red flags.

As I said to army judge, I'm here for legal advice, not personal.

 

[Proserpina]

It is not your legal matter.

 

[dumpy2411]

Thank you both for your responses, I do appreciate it. If there is no further legal advice to be offered I'll be moving along.

 

[army judge]

I can smell the stench of a child molester from hundreds of miles away.

Or, perhaps it is the putrefying flesh of a fornicator.

On third thought, it might also be the malodorous aroma of an adulterer.

 

[Proserpina]

I'm just smelling yet another Mom who finds some new Daddy substitute and runs off to him without giving a single thought to what might be best for the kids.

 

[dumpy2411]

I can smell the stench of a child molester from hundreds of miles away.

Or, perhaps it is the putrefying flesh of a fornicator.

On third thought, it might also be the malodorous aroma of an adulterer.

I smell another dime-a-dozen internet tough guy who only grows a set of balls when he has the anonymity of an online forum to hide behind.

I truly hope you were lying in your profile when you said you are a retired Army lawyer and judge. The thought of someone like you in our armed forces or in our justice system almost makes me physically ill.

And Proserpina, you presume an awful lot based on very little information. How dare you? You don't know her, you don't know me, you don't know the situation. You have no idea what you're talking about. If you spoke that way about my girlfriend to my face then we'd have serious issues. But you wouldn't do that, would you? Dime-a-dozen.

Shame on both of you.

 

[Proserpina]

I believe your response tells us quite a lot about your situation. I'm spot on, aren't I?

And really? I'd have "serious issues"? I'd be very concerned as a parent, having my kids exposed to someone who threatens internet posters.

Good luck to these children. Looks like they're going to need it (unless, with any luck, Dad is able to obtain custody which would allow Mommy to move wherever she wants freely).

 

[dumpy2411]

Not spot on. Not even in the ballpark. Not even on the same planet. Is that response clear enough or do I need to paint you a picture too?

I'm not threatening you, I was pointing out that words and actions have consequences when you don't have an anonymous internet forum to hide behind.

Good luck to your step-children. You certainly seem to be a fine role model for them.