Mother's ability to parent falls through CPS cracks

[Stackhouse2]

Hello,

I'm 21 years old and my younger sister, who is eleven, has indicated that she wants to come live with me. Our parents got a divorce last January, and at that point our already distant/paycheck parent of a father became a totally non-existent paycheck father. He is not a part of my life, or that of my two younger sisters. (The second of the younger sisters is almost 18, so she is "almost free", as she says.

My mother, who has full custody of the eleven year old, is and has been for as long as I can remember, an emotionally and mentally abusive parent. I know that on at least two occasions, CPS has been called on her. Once less than a year ago. I don't know by whom, or what their reasons were, but I do know that it happened. The first time they showed up at our front door, and the second time I got a phone call from another family member (aunt) who had been contacted.

I am living in Arizona, where I moved shortly after I was "free", from Pennsylvania where my mother and sisters still reside. I have a stable, well paying job, and despite the abuse (and thanks to therapy), I am emotionally and mentally stable, and in my opinion, far more fit to raise my sister than my mother is.

My sister is currently doing the online schooling thing, and previously she was homeschooled. She has never been to public school (I was homeschooled from fourth grade till graduation). I am able and willing to continue the online schooling, or to resume homeschooling my sister, so removing my sister from PA to AZ would not be a problem in that regard.

My questions are:

How can I prove that my mother is not mentally or emotionally fit to continue raising my sister?

How can I ensure that I get custody of my sister?

Would the child support my father pays my mother be redirected to me if I were to get custody?

What steps would I need to take to make this happen?


Thank you.
SH1

 

[Duranie]

I will say it is going to be extremely difficult for you to get custody of your sister due to your age, and the fact you live over 2000 miles away. In order for any chance of custody you are going to have to prove monm totally unfit and then Dad can always fight you as well. sorry but that is the just of it and you are going to have to see an attorney. This is going to be very costly for you to pursue unless you can talk you mom into giving you guardianship or custody which she likely will not do since you live so far away. Your distance is a huge problem here.

 

[Proserpina]

My mother, who has full custody of the eleven year old, is and has been for as long as I can remember, an emotionally and mentally abusive parent. I know that on at least two occasions, CPS has been called on her. Once less than a year ago. I don't know by whom, or what their reasons were, but I do know that it happened. The first time they showed up at our front door, and the second time I got a phone call from another family member (aunt) who had been contacted.

If CPS were called and the child is still with Mom, they evidently believe that the child is NOT at risk.

This alone will make your task a monumentally uphill battle. You need PROOF that Mom is abusive - the simple fact that your sister wants to live with you is not going to convince any judge to award you custody.

I am living in Arizona, where I moved shortly after I was "free", from Pennsylvania where my mother and sisters still reside. I have a stable, well paying job, and despite the abuse (and thanks to therapy), I am emotionally and mentally stable, and in my opinion, far more fit to raise my sister than my mother is.

I hate to sound harsh, but this is not relevant. I could be more fit to raise your sister too, but neither you nor I trump Mom's rights to be even a crappy parent.

My sister is currently doing the online schooling thing, and previously she was homeschooled. She has never been to public school (I was homeschooled from fourth grade till graduation). I am able and willing to continue the online schooling, or to resume homeschooling my sister, so removing my sister from PA to AZ would not be a problem in that regard.

My questions are:

How can I prove that my mother is not mentally or emotionally fit to continue raising my sister?

You need evidence. CPS reports (not just a record of calls, but actual investigative reports showing that Mom is unfit). The simple fact that they've been called, but kiddo is still with Mom, is a huge problem for you.

How can I ensure that I get custody of my sister?

Frankly I don't think you have a chance at all, based upon what you've said so far. As Duranie said, the distance is also a huge factor - you simply haven't been there (at least lately) to even know what's going on.

Would the child support my father pays my mother be redirected to me if I were to get custody?

BOTH parents would probably find themselves paying child support to a third party custodian.

What steps would I need to take to make this happen?


Thank you.
SH1

Your first step would be to hire an attorney.

 

[lonelyinny]

you cant get custody and sister doesnt decide

Hello,

I'm 21 years old and my younger sister, who is eleven, has indicated that she wants to come live with me. Our parents got a divorce last January, and at that point our already distant/paycheck parent of a father became a totally non-existent paycheck father. He is not a part of my life, or that of my two younger sisters. (The second of the younger sisters is almost 18, so she is "almost free", as she says.

My mother, who has full custody of the eleven year old, is and has been for as long as I can remember, an emotionally and mentally abusive parent. I know that on at least two occasions, CPS has been called on her. Once less than a year ago. I don't know by whom, or what their reasons were, but I do know that it happened. The first time they showed up at our front door, and the second time I got a phone call from another family member (aunt) who had been contacted.

I am living in Arizona, where I moved shortly after I was "free", from Pennsylvania where my mother and sisters still reside. I have a stable, well paying job, and despite the abuse (and thanks to therapy), I am emotionally and mentally stable, and in my opinion, far more fit to raise my sister than my mother is.

My sister is currently doing the online schooling thing, and previously she was homeschooled. She has never been to public school (I was homeschooled from fourth grade till graduation). I am able and willing to continue the online schooling, or to resume homeschooling my sister, so removing my sister from PA to AZ would not be a problem in that regard.

My questions are:

How can I prove that my mother is not mentally or emotionally fit to continue raising my sister?

How can I ensure that I get custody of my sister?

Would the child support my father pays my mother be redirected to me if I were to get custody?

What steps would I need to take to make this happen?


Thank you.
SH1

untill your sister is 18, she stays where she is, she doesnt decide whom to live with. you have no standing to get custody of your sister, if shes removed from moms care, she goes to dad, he has more rights then anyone.

 

[Stackhouse2]

If CPS were called and the child is still with Mom, they evidently believe that the child is NOT at risk.

This alone will make your task a monumentally uphill battle. You need PROOF that Mom is abusive - the simple fact that your sister wants to live with you is not going to convince any judge to award you custody.

Physically my sister is not being abused. Mentally and emotionally, ABSOLUTELY! But how does one prove that, and how seriously will a judge take that? When a child is too afraid of further emotional battering, it is hard to ask for help. Trust me, I've been there.

As for being 2000 miles away, yes I am aware this is a hurdle. I visit frequently enough to know that my mother has not changed, that she is still an abuser. I'm 21 years old and I STILL deal with my mother's abuse. If it weren't for my sister, I would not be in contact with her at all. I was back east in September, and got the full onslaught of the "you're a total screw up" speech (and I'm not by any standard) and plenty of other horrid things that I wont bother repeating.

My real concern is that while my sisters and I were not physically abused by our parents, our father was simply non-existent (he wouldn't fight me at all, in fact he'd probably help me get the 11 year old away from our mother), is that emotional abuse, the concrete feeling that you don't matter at all, will lead down a path of physical self-destruction. I tried to kill myself several times before I got out. The seventeen year old tried once that I know of, and it's only a matter of time before the 11 year old tries. I do NOT want to outlive my sister, especially not if I could have prevented it.

Not to mention, I don't want my sister to have to deal with the emotional repercussions of this abuse anymore than she has to. The abuse IS real...the evidence is just the tricky part.

Would testament from other family members or close friends or even therapists, be considered evidence? Like if I had people who agree that my mother is an emotional abuser (and I know plenty of people who do agree) write letters to that fact?


Thanks.
SH2

 

[Proserpina]

Physically my sister is not being abused. Mentally and emotionally, ABSOLUTELY! But how does one prove that, and how seriously will a judge take that? When a child is too afraid of further emotional battering, it is hard to ask for help. Trust me, I've been there.

Maybe if you can elaborate on the emotional abuse, we may be able to come up with a away of obtaining proof.

As for being 2000 miles away, yes I am aware this is a hurdle. I visit frequently enough to know that my mother has not changed, that she is still an abuser. I'm 21 years old and I STILL deal with my mother's abuse. If it weren't for my sister, I would not be in contact with her at all. I was back east in September, and got the full onslaught of the "you're a total screw up" speech (and I'm not by any standard) and plenty of other horrid things that I wont bother repeating.

My real concern is that while my sisters and I were not physically abused by our parents, our father was simply non-existent (he wouldn't fight me at all, in fact he'd probably help me get the 11 year old away from our mother), is that emotional abuse, the concrete feeling that you don't matter at all, will lead down a path of physical self-destruction. I tried to kill myself several times before I got out. The seventeen year old tried once that I know of, and it's only a matter of time before the 11 year old tries. I do NOT want to outlive my sister, especially not if I could have prevented it.

Not to mention, I don't want my sister to have to deal with the emotional repercussions of this abuse anymore than she has to. The abuse IS real...the evidence is just the tricky part.

Would testament from other family members or close friends or even therapists, be considered evidence? Like if I had people who agree that my mother is an emotional abuser (and I know plenty of people who do agree) write letters to that fact?


Thanks.
SH2

Letters and/or affidavits cannot be cross-examined in court; should this get to court you would need to subpoena witnesses. However your biggest hurdle, as far as I can see, is that CPS have already been involved and have evidently determined that the situation doesn't warrant further action.

Have your sister keep talking to her school counselor, too, because s/he would be a mandated reporter.

The other problem is that you're not there. I realize that you have visited, but you don't see what's happening on a day to day basis and you've only got someone else's word for it.

But let's see if there's anything else we can suggest if you want to elaborate on what exactly you believe constitutes the emotional abuse, k?


(and please ignore lonelyinny - this poster does not contribute anything even vaguely helpful)

 

[Proserpina]

Another quick question - if Dad would be willing to help you, wouldn't it be easier for HIM to try and get custody and then allow your sister to live with you?

 

[Stackhouse2]

On emotional abuse....

What Is Emotional Abuse?

Emotional abuse of a child is commonly defined as a pattern of behavior by parents or caregivers that can seriously interfere with a child's cognitive, emotional, psychological or social development. Emotional abuse of a child — also referred to as psychological maltreatment — can include:

* Ignoring. Either physically or psychologically, the parent or caregiver is not present to respond to the child. He or she may not look at the child and may not call the child by name.
* Rejecting. This is an active refusal to respond to a child's needs (e.g., refusing to touch a child, denying the needs of a child, ridiculing a child).
* Isolating. The parent or caregiver consistently prevents the child from having normal social interactions with peers, family members and adults. This also may include confining the child or limiting the child's freedom of movement.
* Exploiting or corrupting. In this kind of abuse, a child is taught, encouraged or forced to develop inappropriate or illegal behaviors. It may involve self-destructive or antisocial acts of the parent or caregiver, such as teaching a child how to steal or forcing a child into prostitution.
* Verbally assaulting. This involves constantly belittling, shaming, ridiculing or verbally threatening the child.
* Terrorizing. Here, the parent or caregiver threatens or bullies the child and creates a climate of fear for the child. Terrorizing can include placing the child or the child's loved one (such as a sibling, pet or toy) in a dangerous or chaotic situation, or placing rigid or unrealistic expectations on the child with threats of harm if they are not met.
* Neglecting the child. This abuse may include educational neglect, where a parent or caregiver fails or refuses to provide the child with necessary educational services; mental health neglect, where the parent or caregiver denies or ignores a child's need for treatment for psychological problems; or medical neglect, where a parent or caregiver denies or ignores a child's need for treatment for medical problems.

While the definition of emotional abuse is often complex and imprecise, professionals agree that, for most parents, occasional negative attitudes or actions are not considered emotional abuse. Even the best of parents have occasions when they have momentarily "lost control" and said hurtful things to their children, failed to give them the attention they wanted or unintentionally scared them.

What is truly harmful, according to James Garbarino, a national expert on emotional abuse, is the persistent, chronic pattern that "erodes and corrodes a child" (1994). Many experts concur that emotional abuse is typically not an isolated incident.

Everything I've marked in bold type my mother is guilty of in one degree or another. Sometimes extremely, sometimes mildly. She also has a rather bad habit of unloading her own problems (with her marriage, with her own sexual abuses, with her boyfriend, with her money, with her job, with her friends who she pushes away because they realize she's nuts, etc) on her children at a stage when we were not emotionally prepared to digest the information.

Let me put it to you this way - when I was eleven it came out that my now seventeen year old sister had been molested by a family friend, which had lasted for two years. At that point, I got my sex education talk as my mother unloaded on me all about sexual abuse, detailed information about her own sexual abuse, her mother's sexual abuse, a bunch of "dirty little family secrets", and what not. After that it just kept going. My father was not a good husband, she never talked about "grownup things" with him...she did it to me, and then she started doing it to the now seventeen year old after I left two years ago. I imagine that this particular baton will be passed to the elven year old in another year when the now seventeen year old leaves. Our mother just has to unload her crap on the only people who can't leave...her minor children.

As far as my father getting custody of them and then him letting me take them...that would be an idea to consider as a last resort, but he wasn't much better a parent than she was, nor does he ever keep his word, and I'd rather not risk helping him get custody and then the eleven year old get stuck with him...because he'd do that out of spite towards my mother, no matter how much he really doesn't want to be a parent. No, he'd keep her, send he to public school, and a babysitting, it would be no better than putting her in foster care. Worse, actually. I don't think he'd really go so far as "helping me", but he would not fight me. And he couldn't care less who gets the child support check. He really is an arsehole like that.

And school councilor, there isn't one. She's doing "online school", and before that was homeschooled. No, we had to put up with this kind of abuse 24/7, 365 days a year.

Does that help clear my claim of emotional and mental abuse?


Thanks.
SH2

 

[Proserpina]

It does, but unfortunately there needs to be documentation. Proof.


Without this I'm sorry, but there is no chance that you will be successful in your quest. I still think that Dad getting custody and then allowing your sister to live is far more likely to succeed but again you're facing the same two problems - no evidence of abuse, and little contact.

I'm sorry I don't have better news but as unfair as it may seem, I believe your hands are tied.

By all means, have at least a consult with an attorney where your sister lives.

 

[Stackhouse2]

Thanks for the advice. If you think of anyway to "untie" my hands, please let me know.

I will look into a lawyer in PA. And, if I can stomach it, contact my father. I haven't spoken to him in over a year.

 

[Proserpina]

I owe you an apology - I'm very sorry, but for some reason I was thinking that you were in PA and sis was in AZ.

Your task just became monumentally more difficult; Arizona allows for any interested party to try for custody (although this is rarely awarded and when it is, it's usually to the grandparents); in PA you must first actually have standing to sue for custody...and that generally means that either the State has removed custody from BOTH parents and you are a relative willing to take the child in, or that you are currently the child's de facto parent.

I'm going to try and find some more information for you, just in case.

 

[Stackhouse2]

De facto as in guardian on the will? Because that's possible. That's not the standing right now, but it has been discussed, and I could certainly put pressure on ensuring it happens. My mother made it clear that our father would never be guardian, and I am the next of kin. If my mother died tomorrow, the current guardian on the will is my father's sister, who was placed there years ago and my mother no longer wishes that to be the case. My father doesn't want the kids, so that does put me next in line, legally, correct?

And haha, me living in PA over AZ? Have you seen the weather they're getting? *grin*

 

[Proserpina]

De facto as in guardian on the will? Because that's possible. That's not the standing right now, but it has been discussed, and I could certainly put pressure on ensuring it happens. My mother made it clear that our father would never be guardian, and I am the next of kin. If my mother died tomorrow, the current guardian on the will is my father's sister, who was placed there years ago and my mother no longer wishes that to be the case. My father doesn't want the kids, so that does put me next in line, legally, correct?

And haha, me living in PA over AZ? Have you seen the weather they're getting? *grin*

LOL! Oh, I went from PA, to ND, to WA state - I'll never go back east

No, I mean defacto parent as in "you already have the child living with you, but nothing formal has been filed". For example, Mom lets her come and live with you for a year, and you support both of you. In many states (AZ and PA both fit this category) this may give you standing, as her "defacto parent", to sue for more formal custody.


Now with regards to the will, this is where it can be murky too. Though your Mom can request that the court allow Person A to become guardian to the children, this doesn't mean that Dad can't walk right in and take over. His rights as Dad trump the rights of a third-party guardian although it IS possible that a court will - specially if Dad has had very little contact - will decide to allow Mom's choice to take over as guardian.

 

[Stackhouse2]

Ah, ok, I need to brush up on my law terminology. In that case, de facto might be do-able. Maybe. Okay, so it's a snowball's chance in the underworld, but worth a shot. How long of a term would my sister have to "live with me" before the de facto would be considered?


And, yea, never going back east either!!

 

[Proserpina]

Ah, ok, I need to brush up on my law terminology. In that case, de facto might be do-able. Maybe. Okay, so it's a snowball's chance in the underworld, but worth a shot. How long of a term would my sister have to "live with me" before the de facto would be considered?


And, yea, never going back east either!!

Although in some cases 6 months is enough to establish status quo, I'd go with 12 months minimum.

Bear in mind that this doesn't ease the burden of having to prove - should Mom fight - that Mom is unfit. And please revisit this site, because there are other responders who may be able to think of something we've not thought of, and I'm still going through the PA Family Code to see what I can find, k?

 

[Stackhouse2]

Oh, I'm not going anywhere. I'm a fairly intelligent person. I'm getting all my ducks in a row before I DO anything. I'm not idiotic enough to give my mother heads up that I'm trying to take her daughter away from her.

Again, many thanks.

 

[Proserpina]

Yep, I realize that you're intelligent and frankly seem quite capable of <whatever>.


With that said, I do NOT want to get your hopes up - as I said, even if you DO find that eventually you may have standing, as a third party, to sue for custody, you will still have a massive uphill battle to overcome.

But, I sincerely believe that it's not completely impossible, IF Mom allows daughter to come and live with you. Slim? Yes. Likely? No. But not impossible.

And you're very welcome!

 

[Stackhouse2]

Haha, yes I am quite capable. Which is why I'm not in collage. Because I can't decide what I want to be "when I grow up". Too many interests and enough brainpower to do whatever I want. I have considered going for law, which was why I knew coming to a forum full of people who know the law would be easy enough to comprehend. I wasn't looking for "yes" and "no" answers. I was looking for information, for resources, and explanations. Looks like I came to the right place. *smile*

Well, off to prepare a lesson plan for my English student (I tutor.) Like I said, I'll be watching if anyone else has any bright ideas, or you find further information, Proserpina.

 

[Stackhouse2]

Hey! Had a brainwave I could use an opinion on:


What about emancipation? If my sister submitted a petition for emancipation to the court, on the note that I would be providing her with the needs of life and finish her education...would that be a possible avenue to take?


Thanks!
SH2

 

[BayState]

Hey! Had a brainwave I could use an opinion on:


What about emancipation? If my sister submitted a petition for emancipation to the court, on the note that I would be providing her with the needs of life and finish her education...would that be a possible avenue to take?


Thanks!
SH2

No. A Minor is only granted Emancipation is s/he is ALREADY self-supportive.