mom wants to take daughter

[jorgeg3661]

So our 12month old daughter has been living with me since birth, her mom hasn't really been in her life for the past 2 months hardly calls or texts to see how our daughter is doing, so I recently told her that in order to take our daughter she's gonna have to take me to court. Other than a mutual agreement, what can I do to make sure that if she takes her she will bring her back to her frightful home?

 

[Proserpina]

Careful.

Have you legitimated your daughter?

If the answer to this is no and also if there are no court orders in place, you CANNOT withhold the child from her other parent.

I'm fairly sure you didn't mean to type "frightful home", either.

 

[Proserpina]

I do apologize - I initially read this to be a Georgia post. Given that it is not, the question about legitimization is moot.

So, is paternity legally established?

 

[mightymoose]

Absent a court order you are not obligated to do much of anything. If mom wants custody/visitation she needs to go through the same process dads do in this situation.
A mutual agreement is not enforceable. She can say what you want to hear to get the child and then refuse to return the child. At that point you are the one needing a court order to get the child back.
No need to wait for her though. It is in everyone's best interest to get a custody order- and then adhere to it.

 

[Proserpina]

If he has not established paternity, he CANNOT withhold the child from Mom. She would be the only legal parent.

 

[issie77]

My mom was diagnosed with stage four cancer and i wanted to relocate from arizona to california but my ex husband does not give me permission to move the kids. We filled the divorce documents in california. What can i do to expedite the process i dont know how long my mom is going to be around and want my kids to spend time with their grandmother.

 

[Proserpina]

Leave the kids with Dad, and go take care of your Mom. You can have them visit for awhile before Mom passes.

 

[mightymoose]

If he has not established paternity, he CANNOT withhold the child from Mom. She would be the only legal parent.

He can keep his daughter until a court says otherwise. If mom doesn't obtain a custody order the girl can stay with dad.

 

[mightymoose]

If your custody order requires dads permission then kids will have to stay behind.
You aren't likely to find a way to expedite anything since grandma doesn't have any custody/visitation rights.
Your best bet is to be nice to dad and convince him to allow at least a temporary visit. It is beat to get written permission.

 

[Proserpina]

He can keep his daughter until a court says otherwise. If mom doesn't obtain a custody order the girl can stay with dad.

What? If paternity is not established, he has NO rights to keep the child.

None. What. So. Ever.

 

[Proserpina]

Moose, you realize we have two different OPs here, right?

 

[CdwJava]

What? If paternity is not established, he has NO rights to keep the child.

None. What. So. Ever.

If she acknowledges that he is the dad or he has any other indication of being dad, the child is staying where it is absent a court order. That's how it tends to work in CA. She is free to go to court and present a birth certificate listing her as the sole parent with a right to custody and visitation, but until then the police will likely take one of two actions: Leave the child with the caretaker parent, or, take the child into protective custody (through CPS) and let both parents sort it out at court.

If mom wants to claim she abandoned her baby, she can give that a go ... she'll likely end up in court, but she can run it up the flagpole and see what happens.

But, MM is correct - the child is almost certainly NOT going to be seized from dad and turned over to mom absent some court order.

 

[CdwJava]

My mom was diagnosed with stage four cancer and i wanted to relocate from arizona to california but my ex husband does not give me permission to move the kids. We filled the divorce documents in california. What can i do to expedite the process i dont know how long my mom is going to be around and want my kids to spend time with their grandmother.

issie77 - please start your own (new) thread with your question.

Thanks.

 

[Proserpina]

That goes against everything we've ever read about paternity - even in CA - but okay.

Essentially that would mean that random guy off the street could take the baby, hide out for 3 years and then - with paternity NOT being established - be able to force Mom to court if Mom wants the child back. "I am the bio father and Mom knows I am".

 

[CdwJava]

That goes against everything we've ever read about paternity - even in CA - but okay.

But we are not talking about the establishment of paternity, we're talking about what the police will do if she calls them and asks them to rip the child away from dad at her request (after effectively abandoning them for a couple of months).

Essentially that would mean that random guy off the street could take the baby, hide out for 3 years and then - with paternity NOT being established - be able to force Mom to court if Mom wants the child back. "I am the bio father and Mom knows I am".

But THAT is NOT what is happening here. What you describe would be child stealing, at the very least! This is not the same thing.

Let's say she calls the cops and the nice officer arrives. She says she left the child with the OP for the past couple of months for whatever reason and now she wants the child back. The officer will likely ask about her relationship with the OP. Dollars to donuts, she'll admit he's the bio-dad. If she says he's some random stranger, or a friend, the officer may well raise his eyebrows and ask why she abandoned the child with a legal stranger for two months?

This can also be a two edged sword ... mom can no more prove her relationship to the child than can dad. The officer will base his decision on what is presented to him. No court orders, acknowledgement that she left the child with DAD, and there is no reason to believe the child is at risk, then the child will stay where it is and mom will be advised to head to court and seek custody. If dad has not established paternity and is not named on the birth certificate as daddy, then she ought to have little difficulty coming over with the temporary order and asking the police to enforce it. Until then, the cops will do one of two things: Leave the child where it is, or take it into protective custody and let CPS and the courts figure it out.

 

[Proserpina]

But that was my point - there's no proof that he is Dad. None at all. To take his word over Mom's, who has PROOF that she's the child's parent, is quite honestly frightening.

I do understand that the example I used was extreme - and perhaps even a different kind of fruit - but, you got the point.

As an example of how things work a bit further north of you (not that it's relevant, just as an FYI), my #2's stbx is not her child's legal father at all.

He did babysit for her though until recently even though they were separated. Had she gone to collect kiddo though and he refused to turn kiddo over to Mom? The police here would have absolutely intervened. Even if he claimed to be the child's biological father. Without a court order either establishing him as the parent or giving him rights, Mom rules supreme and further, he would have possibly faced charges.

But, I'm hijacking. So I'll hush my muffin and defer to you, because you *are* in the OP's state and I'm not.

 

[mightymoose]

What? If paternity is not established, he has NO rights to keep the child.

None. What. So. Ever.

Without a court order nobody will remove the child from dad's home.
If dad doesn't comply with mom's demand she will need the court's help. Dad has no obligation to do anything until then.

 

[mightymoose]

Moose, you realize we have two different OPs here, right?

Yep. I caught on after I read all the way through.

 

[mightymoose]

But that was my point - there's no proof that he is Dad. None at all. To take his word over Mom's, who has PROOF that she's the child's parent, is quite honestly frightening.

Proof is something to be determined in court. Anyone can show any document to try and claim parental rights/custody. A court order, however, is quickly and easily verifiable through a records department.
I won't favor mom over dad or vice versa. I will enforce a court order though.
If mom thinks dad has no right to the child she should easily obtain a custody order. In this particular case it sounds as if mom will have some explaining to do to get her child back.
If mom was instead making a report ofabduction or some other crime then it is likely the child would end up in foster care until the court could hear the matter.
Police, around here anyway, are not in the practice of taking a child away from one person and giving it to another without a court order or belief a crime has occurred.
You may ultimately be right about mom's rights, but she needs the help of the court if dad is not cooperative with her demands. The same would be true if mom and dad reversed roles. Neither one has an advantage based on gender.

 

[Proserpina]

In all three US states in which I've lived (PA, ND, WA), that would not be the case. In an unwed situation, Mom is the sole legal parent unless and until paternity is established and LEOs will absolutely intervene if someone is withholding the child against Mom's wishes; all she needs is the child's birth certificate and her ID. If putative Dad can't show that he's the father, the child will be removed. There is a gender advantage in such an unwed situation.

But, you're also in CA so I'll defer to you, too.