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How are they not illegal?

Discussion in 'Constitutional Law & Civil Rights' started by Richie Snare, Jul 2, 2021.

  1. Richie Snare

    Richie Snare Law Topic Starter New Member

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    Jurisdiction:
    Nebraska
    This has multiple parts, I think.

    First: Almost every single article I read claims businesses can mandate vaccines. However:

    Federal law 21 U.S.C. § 360bbb-3(e)(1)(A)(ii)(III) requires that the person to whom an EUA vaccine is administered be advised, ‘of the option to accept or refuse administration of the product, of the consequences, if any, of refusing administration of the product, and of the alternatives to the product that are available and of their benefits and risks.’

    “This right of refusal stems from the fact that EUA products are, by definition, experimental and forced participation in a medical experiment could result in injury. Under the Nuremberg Code, no one may be coerced to participate in a medical experiment. Consent of the individual is ‘absolutely essential.
    ’”

    The Covid jab is experimental, because it is issued under an EUA. It is not licensed by the FDA, meaning they do not know the long-term side effects.

    Dr. Amanda Cohn, the executive secretary of the CDC’s Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices, was asked if Covid-19 vaccination can be required, she responded that under an EUA, “vaccines are not allowed to be mandatory"...Cohn later affirmed that this prohibition on requiring the vaccines applies to organizations, including hospitals.
    https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/min-archive/min-2020-08-508.pdf
    https://www.fda.gov/media/143982/download

    Next: many state HIPPA doesn't apply to businesses. However, to release medical information requires you to provide a written release of information. Requiring a person to provide "proof of vaccination" seems a lot like side-stepping the issue, by requiring people to give up their information, to do business. Businesses aren't allowed to inquire about as to if you have HIV/AIDS, STDS, TB, or others, are they.

    Now, before anyone tries to say something like "...in the interest of public safety," or "medical emergency," I present to you the facts that there's no epidemic, let alone, a pandemic:

    Currently, we are at a 98% recovery rate; World O Meter! Since this has started, the science has remained at the range of 95 - 99% recovery rate! You can also see it in chart format; Statisa. That tiny bar? The [at time of posting] roughly global deaths of 3.9M, out of a global population of 7.8B? Also, see the huge bar, almost on par with cases? That's our recoveries. There's no saying that it's not real, nor that it kills. However, with a current recovery rate of 98%, and it has been like this the entire time, what is the legal grounds to mandate masks, or force vaccines, when the evidence clearly shows there is no crisis? Forcing either, or anything, for something that clearly isn't a problem, should then be considered in violation of religious rights [to refuse vaccines], and general constitutional rights.
     
  2. Zigner

    Zigner Well-Known Member

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    One is free to not wear masks or not be vaccinated, just as one is free to not admit someone who is not masked or not vaccinated in to their establishment.
     
  3. Richie Snare

    Richie Snare Law Topic Starter New Member

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    Based on your "logic," a business can say someone can't come in, because they have AIDS/HIV, or any other such illness.

    If you have HIV infection or AIDS, you have workplace privacy rights, you are protected against discrimination and harassment at work because of your condition, and you may have a legal right to reasonable accommodations that can help you to do your job.

    This is from the federal government's EEOC. So, if you are protected from harassment for AIDS, and Covid is clearly not a serious issue, why are businesses allowed to harass people for Covid?
     
  4. Zigner

    Zigner Well-Known Member

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    There is no harassment occurring, but let's assume you are using "harass" as a synonym for "make rules as they see fit". They can do it because there's no law that says they can't. If you feel such laws should exist, then take it up with your legislators.
     
  5. zddoodah

    zddoodah Well-Known Member

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    What is the legal ground for whom to mandate masks? And who exactly do you think is "forc[ing] [a] vaccine" on anyone? Don't name names, but be specific.
     
  6. justblue

    justblue Well-Known Member

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    AIDS/HIV it not communicable by air, so your analogy is faulty.

    I'm curious...are you against all vaccines or just the various COVID vaccines?
     
  7. Michael Wechsler

    Michael Wechsler Administrator Staff Member

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  8. Zigner

    Zigner Well-Known Member

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    I believe that this poster isn't claiming that it is illegal, rather, he simply feels it should be illegal.
     
  9. Michael Wechsler

    Michael Wechsler Administrator Staff Member

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    I wasn't sure and was under the impression that he feels it should be considered illegal under existing law, not that the legislature should render this practice illegal. Regardless, we'll find out. :)
     
    Zigner likes this.
  10. Redemptionman

    Redemptionman Active Member

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    Basically the business has a policy, they can enforce the policy if you are an employee or contracted by them. If you break the policy they have disciplinary discretion up to and including termination. If you break policy and have said Vaccination card then you can comply with the companies requirements and clear yourself of any violation according to them,

    If you are in a right to work state or don't have union protection then you really have no say in what they as the employer can require. It is their business.
     
  11. Tax Counsel

    Tax Counsel Well-Known Member

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    That is not exactly what the statute says. What the statute states is that the Secretary of HHS must do several things with regards to such products:

    (ii) Appropriate conditions designed to ensure that individuals to whom the product is administered are informed—
    (I )that the Secretary has authorized the emergency use of the product;
    (II) of the significant known and potential benefits and risks of such use, and of the extent to which such benefits and risks are unknown; and
    (III) of the option to accept or refuse administration of the product, of the consequences, if any, of refusing administration of the product, and of the alternatives to the product that are available and of their benefits and risks.


    So this statute simply places certain requirements on HHS, no one else. Most significantly here is that nothing in this statute imposes any requirements or restrictions on a business regarding whether they may refuse to serve an unvaccinated person. No federal or Nebraska law presently prohibits a private business from requiring patrons to be vaccinated.


    The CDC has never said that a private business cannot refuse to serve a patron who is not vaccinated. It cannot say that because there is no federal law that prohibits a business from doing that.

    HIPAA is a federal law that prohibits health insurance companies and healthcare providers from disclosing a patient's protected heath information (PHI) to persons other than the patient except with the permission of the patient or in certain limited situations where permission of the patient is not required. A business that is not a health insurer or heathcare provider is not subject to HIPAA. HIPAA has nothing to do with whether a private business may refuse service to someone who is not vaccinated.

    Actually, no federal law makes it illegal for a business to make such an inquiry of a patron. No state law does that either, so far as I know. What federal law and the law of many states does mandate, however, is that places of public accommodation may not discriminate based on the patron's disability. Not being vaccinated is not a disability.

    Note that a business may definitely refuse to serve someone who presently has a communicable disease that would put employees and other patrons at risk.


    Well, that's your opinion. The vast majority of medical experts on this disagree with you though.

    You have the right to refuse the vaccine. But like most everything else in life, your choices have consequences. The business has the right to refuse anyone service for any reason other than a reason expressly prohibited by law. That choice, though, has consequences. For you, your choice not to get the vaccination may mean you'll be refused service at some businesses. For the business, it means loss of your business. You each have rights, and each much deal with the outcome of exercising those rights.

    Note that your Constitutional rights are rights you have that protect you from actions of the GOVERNMENT. The rights you have under the Constitution do not extend to your dealings with private persons and entities. For example, the government is prohibited under the First Amendment from punishing you for your speech (with very limited exceptions). But your right of free speech does not apply when dealing with a private business. If you say something that a business owner does not like the owner can kick you out without violating the First Amendment.
     
  12. PayrollHRGuy

    PayrollHRGuy Well-Known Member

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    Just because everyone that gets it doesn't die from it has nothing to do with it being either an epidemic or pandemic.
     
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  13. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

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    If my memory serves me correctly, EVERYONE seemed to regularly contract the common cold and the ORDINARY flu, among many other maladies.

    Covid appears, and all those other ailments seemingly vanished.
     
  14. PayrollHRGuy

    PayrollHRGuy Well-Known Member

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    I can see two possible reasons for that.
    1. We stayed away from people.
    2. If you had the sniffles they treated it as COVID.
     
  15. cbg

    cbg Super Moderator

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    3.) Masks work.
     
  16. Redemptionman

    Redemptionman Active Member

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    not as well as vaccinations.
     
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  17. cbg

    cbg Super Moderator

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    I agree. No question about it. I'm not equating the two but adding an additional suggestion to the ones offered by PayrollDude as to why lesser ailments such as colds were not seen as much this past year.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2021
  18. adjusterjack

    adjusterjack Super Moderator

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  19. Zigner

    Zigner Well-Known Member

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    I am sick (with a very mild cold) for the first time in over 18 months. The ONLY "out of the ordinary" place I've been is to my doctor's office for a physical. Go figure...
     
  20. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

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    Several scientific studies have revealed that the germiest places on the planet can be a physician's office, a dentist's office, and a hospital.

    Medical reports recently released tell of the triumphant return of the "common cold".

    It might be time for you to rest and consume some plenty of good, rich, chicken soup.

    Get well soon, mate.
     
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