Guardianship/ hiding minor

[kingsumo]

My jurisdiction is: CA

My wife and I have petitioned the court for guardianship of our grandson. Both of his parents have opposed this.The baby(23 month old)has been staying @our house for over a year.No financial help from baby's dad,about the same from baby's mom.Baby's dad rents a room in condo,baby's mom was in the beginning living here.But for the last 3 -4 months she is gone almost all the time. Her behavior is quite out of character. For the past month to month and 1/2 the baby's dad had been picking up his son (mon-fri) and watching him for about 2-3 hours.Ever since he read my reasons as to the petition,WOW! The baby has visited own home about 3 times. Baby's dad comes by around midnight wanting to take home.As of last night after his late night,baby's dad called my daughter up and said "I am going to keep our son" So today he has hidden him. My wife or myself or daughter haven't seen him or knows where he/they are.I went to the court house and had the guardianship hearing re-scheduled.I believe baby's dad has violated a couple of the state of CA Penal Codes(277/279)My daughter is terrified.I am really feel sad for our grandson. What the baby's dad is doing cannot be a positive thing ,with regards to the guardianship. But in the mean time,what can be done?Thanks for any advise.!

 

[jacksgal]

I am not siding with Dad. Just want to make that clear. Why is a child being with its Father a bad thing?

 

[Duranie]

If paternity was established then Dad has rights. You cannot keep the baby from Dad. If there is no custody or visitation order Dad can probably legally keep the baby.

 

[CdwJava]

Who has legal custody? What do the court orders say? If there ARE no orders, and dad is intentionally concealing the child from the mother, then PC 278.5 MAY apply (note that there are defenses of necessity and safety that can be applied).

The child's mother should contact the police. Then, she should go to court and obtain custody and visitation orders that SPELL OUT who gets the child when. Absent such a court order, the police are likely to find little that they CAN do.

- Carl

 

[kingsumo]

Who has legal custody? What do the court orders say? If there ARE no orders, and dad is intentionally concealing the child from the mother, then PC 278.5 MAY apply (note that there are defenses of necessity and safety that can be applied).

The child's mother should contact the police. Then, she should go to court and obtain custody and visitation orders that SPELL OUT who gets the child when. Absent such a court order, the police are likely to find little that they CAN do.

- Carl

Why do some people give such an foolish answers?The baby has been living with his grandparents for over 1 year,he has two other children from a previous marriage.( over $12,000.00 behind on court ordered support payments) One of the reasons he is concealing his son is to hurt both baby's mom and the "de-facto parents" grandma and grandpa.Yea, there is nothing wrong,we have petitioned the court for guardianship just for the fun of it.The two who responded harshly shame on both of you.Ca Penal Code 277 & 279 says: what baby's dad has & is doing is actual a crime,FYI

 

[CdwJava]

Why do some people give such an foolish answers?

Please point out what part was "foolish" or inaccurate? My aplogies if the law doesn't fit neatly with your wishes.

The baby has been living with his grandparents for over 1 year,

Legally, this is rather meaningless when compared to the rights of the biological parents. If it comes down to a dispute between grandparents and the bio dad, bio dad wins. Absent a court order granting the grandparents some sort of rights or guardianship that trump those of bio dad, he's going to prevail if the cops get involved.

The situation can be influential when petitioning a court for custody, but absent a court order the grandparents will lose if pushy comes to shove.

he has two other children from a previous marriage.( over $12,000.00 behind on court ordered support payments)

Again, relevant in a petition to the court to modify custody, but not relevant to who has a right to the child in question absent a court order.

Yea, there is nothing wrong,we have petitioned the court for guardianship just for the fun of it.

Please point out where I even ONCE discounted the situation or implied that any claim was without merit? You will note that I did no such thing. I have only pointed out the law.

Note that a PETITION is NOT a court order. Unless some temporary order was granted, this petition has little legal weight.

The two who responded harshly shame on both of you.

Again, WHAT harshness???

Ca Penal Code 277 & 279 says: what baby's dad has & is doing is actual a crime,FYI

PC 277 provides definitions, it is not the punitive section, and 279 deals with issues involving an out of state party. From what you describe, the applicable section would be PC 278.5. Section 278.5 makes it a felony or misdemeanor for any person to abduct a child and deprive a lawful custodian of a right to custody, or to deprive a person of a right to visitation. *IF* the father is depriving a lawful custodian (in this case, the mother) of her right to visitation or custody (assuming she has a right to sole custody), then dad is committing a crime. However, there are exceptions to PC 278.5 and these essentially involve justification defenses which dad would have to avail himself of almost immediately to avoid being charged.

Note that this is what I do for a living, friend. I am the Investigations supervisor for my agency and deal with cases like this every week. You have to understand that the law does not know what you do, and the police can act only on the orders that exist at the time. In the absence of orders that have removed dad's rights to the child, he has a right to custody and visitation at least equal to the mom's. If he is depriving her of visitation, then SHE needs to contact the police and present the case to them and have them look into it. It could very well be that he IS in violation of PC 278.5 ... note that I never said he was not. On the other hand, she does not have a legal right to custody absent a court order, so if dad has the child and allows her to come see the baby, then 278.5 will be tough to make.

Mom needs to go to court and get custody papers, or, assist the grandparents in their petition.

- Carl

 

[kingsumo]

Guardianship

In response to your last post;The hearing for temporary guardianship was today. My wife and I were granted temporary custody of the child. The next hearing is in about 6 weeks. Now what do I need to do maintain guardianship?The baby's dad he really layed it on thick. I believe should get a transcript of the hearing. This will allow me to show the false statements made by both parties. Thank You!

 

[CdwJava]

In response to your last post;The hearing for temporary guardianship was today. My wife and I were granted temporary custody of the child.

That's a good first step.

The next hearing is in about 6 weeks. Now what do I need to do maintain guardianship?

Understand, first, that this status is temporary. Unless both parents lose their legal rights to the child, perhaps to allow you to adopt the grandchild, the child will ultimately end up with one or both of the biological parents.

The baby's dad he really layed it on thick. I believe should get a transcript of the hearing. This will allow me to show the false statements made by both parties. Thank You!

It wouldn't hurt to get a transcript, but that will be very expensive. Depending on the length of the hearing, a typed transcript could run up to $500.

Now, to PROVE false statements you would have to show some evidence that not only counters the statement but indicates that the statements were made knowing they were false. This can be tough. But, it can lend weight towards a lack of credibility at trial.

I wouldn't expect to be the permanent guardians (i.e. the adoptive parents) of the child unless both parents can be shown to be so unfit as to convince a court to remove their rights. This is very rare and generally requires some pretty heinous actions.

On a related note, my wife and I became foster parents so as to help kids that are in similar situations in our community. It can be both rewarding, and frustrating as heck.

Good luck.

- Carl