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Friend is having her nudes sent out maliciously; help?

Discussion in 'Internet & Social Media Law' started by TheChicagoKid316, Oct 22, 2019.

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  1. TheChicagoKid316

    TheChicagoKid316 Law Topic Starter New Member

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    Jurisdiction:
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    I have a friend whose nudes leaked online a few weeks ago. Recently, they fell into the hands of a sick stalker (whose identity we don't know), who is now posting them on porn forums and Tumblr, and sending them out unsolicited to other women's Tumblr pages. He's discovered her real name, so we worry about the havoc he might wreak on her life.

    We know about the DMCA copyright laws, and we've successfully removed his postings. But he's continuing to send them unsolicited to other people (on Tumblr, Twitter, etc.), often with her real name attached. Luckily, they've alerted her to this. We worry he may try to send them to family members or employers.

    All we know for sure about this guy is that he lives in Ontario, Canada. His email address features a full name and birth year, but we're dubious it's his actual identity. My friend, however, lives in the Minnesota.

    Is there a way to stop him? What legal protections do we have? And how are things complicated by the fact that she lives in the US, while he lives in Canada?
     
  2. justblue

    justblue Well-Known Member

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    How old is your friend? How old was she when the pic's were taken? How did the pic's get on-line to begin with?
     
  3. TheChicagoKid316

    TheChicagoKid316 Law Topic Starter New Member

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    My friend is a legal adult, and the pictures are of her as a legal adult. She did not post the pictures online, or in any type of public forum. I don't want to reveal any more information publicly, as I'm not trying to dox anyone, but I'm happy to give more details via PM.
     
  4. justblue

    justblue Well-Known Member

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    No...All comments need to be on your thread. I can only assume that an ex bf/gf posted the pic's...She should consult with a local attorney to see what her option are.
     
  5. justblue

    justblue Well-Known Member

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    There are attorney that volunteer here....I'm sure one or more of them will post to your thread.
     
  6. TheChicagoKid316

    TheChicagoKid316 Law Topic Starter New Member

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    This seems a bit unreasonable, no? I feel like I'm already revealing too much information as it is, and I don't want to dox anybody.

    Let's focus on the details that matter, without discussing personal details that aren't germane to resolving the issue. The problem here is someone in Canada repeatedly posting and sending nude pictures of her with her full name attached. She did not publicly post these pictures anywhere, and she is a legal adult. I'm happy to give more detail in direct messages, but privacy is important, and I'd hope that you'd value that.
     
  7. cbg

    cbg Super Moderator

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    You're assuming that the details requested are not germane to the answer to your question. That is not necessarily the case.
     
  8. justblue

    justblue Well-Known Member

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    Is your friend aware you are posting about her situation on the internet?
     
  9. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

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    The alleged victim's details don't matter.

    What she will find hindering in her attempts to exact a modicum of justoce is the fact that the alleged "perp" resides in Canada.

    She resides in the USA.

    She can discuss her concerns with local, state, and federal law enforcement agencies to see if there is a remedy available to her.

    She can also speak to a couple local attorneys.

    I suspect the alleged perp MIGHT not even be from Canada.

    Many of these rascals exist in states of the nation formerly identified as the "USSR", somewhere deep in the bowels of one of the many eastern European sham, regimes.

    Some of these critters also exist on the Asian continent.

    Either way, Canada, Europe, or Asia; she'll have trouble and get thwarted attempting to do more than have the photos "taken down".
     
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  10. zddoodah

    zddoodah Well-Known Member

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    How is it that "nudes" exist of your friend? Did she voluntarily pose for them? Who was the photographer (not asking for a name; e.g., an ex-boyfriend, a professional photographer, etc.)? Are there any written agreements concerning use of these photos? How did they fall "into the hands of a sick stalker"? How did she/you discover that they were "leaked online" (and what exactly does that mean)? How did this "sick stalker" discover her name but she doesn't know the "stalker's" identity?

    And how is it that you know that?

    Depends on the answers to the questions I asked, but the answer may very well be that there is no way to stop him.

    As far as I can tell, this has nothing to do with you, so I'm not sure why you're asking about protections that "we" might have. Are you the photographer who took these photos? As far as your friend, assuming these are not "selfies," and assuming she voluntarily posed for the photos, she likely gave up any "legal protections" by posing for the photos in the first place.

    I don't really understand this question, but yes, that fact does make things more complicated.

    Well...you're the one who chose to post here. If you don't want to post information necessary to answer your questions, that's up to you, but it makes your post rather pointless. As far as "doxing," I'm not sure what you're talking about. No one's asking you to identify anyone.
     
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  11. Michael Wechsler

    Michael Wechsler Administrator Staff Member

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    I'm going to read more of the details in this thread but this is probably an important first step - removing images shared without consent, often in the context of removing revenge porn from Google. This is directly from the Google Webmaster product support forum.

    Remove unwanted & explicit personal images from Google

    With regard to legal protections, that's typically a responsive and not proactive effort if you don't know the identity of the poster. The process is also excruciatingly time consuming and expensive.

    As to what can be done - it's all dependent upon the facts. Where did you get the details from - a message board? A free mail provider? And why are you so sure the poster is or lives in Canada? You would need registration IP address and the post IP address just to know what IP was used for that particular action. But it is no guarantee that the poster lives there or might have even been there, especially if a proxy was used. Not all are that savvy but, assuming that the poster lives in Canada, you'd have to seek action in Canada as it is beyond the jurisdiction of United States agencies and the justice system.

    In a related matter of the "Right to be Forgotten" which was raised in Canada, you might be interested in this Canada Federal Court ruling on the Right to be Forgotten.
     
  12. TheChicagoKid316

    TheChicagoKid316 Law Topic Starter New Member

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    Yes, I currently live and work in New York, and have done so since 2013. I grew up in Chicago. My friend grew up in Chicago with me, and currently lives in Minnesota.

    Why is this suspicious? And my god, this is a legal forum where privacy should be paramount, why the XXXX should I have to explain my life story to you? Is it so strange that I have a friend who lives in a different state?
     
  13. justblue

    justblue Well-Known Member

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    I suggest you control your language. Read the TOS of this site.

    If you think you are being private by posting your friends situation on the INTERNET, you are mistaken.
     
  14. TheChicagoKid316

    TheChicagoKid316 Law Topic Starter New Member

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    Clearly, TOS is meaningless if it's acceptable for a poster to share my IP address and then label me as "suspicious" because my IP address is in New York City.The idea that I'm under suspicion because I have a friend in a different state is ludicrous, and you know that.

    As for being "private," all I can say is that I posted about this on Reddit, and they are very strict about ensuring no one posts any information that could lead to doxing of any party involved. They were able to provide helpful guidance based upon the broad bulletpoints I gave, without publicly demanding sensitive information regarding the parties involved.

    Naturally, I assumed that a dedicated law forum would follow similarly stringent standards. Instead, I have an asshole running a lookup of my IP address, posting my location, and treating it as a "gotcha" moment, as though it were impossible for me to have a friend located elsewhere in the country.

    Certainly, the above behavior should be against TOS, if this site is to be taken seriously as a resource for legal information.

    I've reported my own post to the mods twice now, because I'd like for it to be deleted, and only one poster has actually provided any meaningfully helpful information for me. So, if any mod is reading this: please delete this thread.
     
  15. justblue

    justblue Well-Known Member

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    Q4P

    As clearly noted in his avatar...Army Judge is a Super Mod on this site.
     
  16. zddoodah

    zddoodah Well-Known Member

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    Maybe I missed it, but I don't believe anyone asked for any information about you or where you and your friend were born or grew up. I asked several questions about the photos at issue and the situation about which you asked, but none of those questions call for personal information, and all of them are highly relevant to the questions you asked.
     
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  17. Zigner

    Zigner Well-Known Member

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    It puzzles me...if you're so concerned with privacy then why are you posting the matter on the internet at all?
     
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  18. Michael Wechsler

    Michael Wechsler Administrator Staff Member

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    I think there is a misunderstanding here given what seems to be the limit of the 5 post per day initial limitation, which we'll have to review. Spamming is extremely heavy and it has been a very effective measure from an ROI standpoint. We'll make sure to clean up the issue and don't think the posting was ill intended.

    In short, I think the OP has a good idea of what they are trying to accomplish in order to ensure that they probably have a reasonably good IP address for the alleged stalker. Let's assume the mechanism used will probably be worth the risk. But the hope in finding a shortcut using the law will unfortunately not happen. Just try obtaining the identity of an IP address holder in the US is difficult enough and you will need an information subpoena from an ISP such as Charter, Spectrum or Verizon FIOS to be able to obtain customer details. I don't think there will be any shortcut in Canada nor will the ISPs there bend with the formality and provide details since a subscriber violated their policy. That might be an issue you will want to raise after you've been able to obtain the identity of the stalker/poster before tipping them off.

    I can suggest some strategies but let's get right to the heart of the matter. How much are you willing to spend to go down this rabbit hole? Here are some posts from a well known site:

    Subpoenas, Court Orders and the ‘Cable Privacy Act’: Identifying Anonymous Online Posters - Lexology
    Internet Litigation: Vorys, Sater, Seymour and Pease LLP

    I have notified them that their guide is missing but you'll understand the implications. This topic bothers me greatly and I wish there was a better remedy. It's just too difficult right now to track down those who can disseminate painful harm - or too easy to get away with it. At some point in the future I expect this to change to some degree but not for the foreseeable future.
     
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  19. Michael Wechsler

    Michael Wechsler Administrator Staff Member

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    I have temporarily hidden from view the off topic posts - if that is OK with everyone and hopefully will assume that it is? I understand the OP's anguish and hope to obtain a variety of insight and input from different sources in the hope of being able to prevent the further damage being done to an innocent party.

    The irony is that we live in a world of competing forces. On one end we value and demand our privacy and don't want anyone to peer into our lives. We are excited about cryptographic and blockchain technology and the ability to have anonymous / pseudonymous activity with limited identity tracking. But with such freedoms also come tremendous abuses where remedies seem to mandate piercing these rights and freedoms we greatly desire in addition to holding such predators responsible for their abhorrent conduct. As I mentioned, Google has made efforts to remove revenge porn (in spite of some lawyers grandstanding that they aren't and have no interest) but it doesn't and can't go far enough without significant policy, legal and regulatory changes on national and international levels.
     
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  20. leslie82

    leslie82 Well-Known Member

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    This is a legal forum - but you need to read the disclaimer. If you want legal advice you have to get it from a lawyer usually who you pay. This forum has some lawyers on it but a lot of us are not lawyers.

    The bottomline is your friend has to talk to a lawyer to help figure out the legal aspects of this. However, as stated, that person may not be in Canada. You can mask IP addresses very easily. The sad thing is, she may never stop this. Once something is posted online it's there forever even if you get it "removed."
     
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