Forfiture of Time

[mykidsdad]

This question is ties to my right of first refusal clause.

My right of first refusal clause is as follows (word for word):

In the event the parent regularly scheduled to care for the children would use an alternative caregiver for a period of more than four hour(sic), that parent shall offer a right of first refusal to the other parent in caring for the children before arranging for an alternate caregiver.

For this question, the applicable visitation time starts Oct 30 @ 6 pm and goes through Monday morning when I drop my boys of at school.

I am planning to go to my schools homecoming on Nov 1, and will return the afternoon of the 2nd.

My ex is exercising her right of first refusal, and is saying that since I am asking her to watch the overnight the 1st, that she will just keep them and not give them back. She says her lawyer said by going away overnight, I am giving up all the remainder of my time. Is this true? She lies constantly, but sometimes there is truth to what she says, so I just am trying to find out if she can do this?

 

[army judge]

This question is ties to my right of first refusal clause.

My right of first refusal clause is as follows (word for word):

In the event the parent regularly scheduled to care for the children would use an alternative caregiver for a period of more than four hour(sic), that parent shall offer a right of first refusal to the other parent in caring for the children before arranging for an alternate caregiver.

For this question, the applicable visitation time starts Oct 30 @ 6 pm and goes through Monday morning when I drop my boys of at school.

I am planning to go to my schools homecoming on Nov 1, and will return the afternoon of the 2nd.

My ex is exercising her right of first refusal, and is saying that since I am asking her to watch the overnight the 1st, that she will just keep them and not give them back. She says her lawyer said by going away overnight, I am giving up all the remainder of my time. Is this true? She lies constantly, but sometimes there is truth to what she says, so I just am trying to find out if she can do this?

You can't complain about the CP in one sense, then impose upon the CP in another sense.
If you have scheduled time, be smart, do YOURSELF a favor, HONOR the agreement.
Your children can go with you.
Or, you can be a father, not attend a conflicting (time wise) event.
You're as responsible for some of her obstinance and intransigence, as she is for the remainder.
You guys need to stop fighting.
Your children see this behavior.
It's teaching them things I'm sure you're not trying to impart.
Read your post.
You're making a choice NOT to spend the ENTIRE allotted time with YOUR children.
The ONLY time that should ever happen is when you're ill, if one of your very close relatives (which would also be theirs) were to be gravely ill or deceased, or a catastrophic emergency were to occur.

 

[disagreeable]

ROFR clauses are usually punitive jealousy agreements and serve little purpose other than to yank the chain of the co-parent.

EDIT
How did I know the dating thread was yours also. Hmmmm. So your divorced wife is a an easy pickup. Don't expect the court to be the ones keeping her pants zipped.

 

[mykidsdad]

I appreciate your comments, and i don't want this to sound argumentative because i spend every minute I can with my boys, including their sporting events when its not my time and taking them to sporting events when my ex will allow...and any other things they are doing. I never leave them to go out other than maybe 30 minutes to run to the store. I'm not thinking 1 time in 4 months will scar them for life. This happens to be a special event for my department at my university and the head of the department contacted me personally to ask me to attend. Not that the reasons matter to the kids... I am not, however, running off willy nilly all the time and not utilizing my time.

As for the arguing, i agree 100 percent. I am trying my best to get along, but she seems insistent on making that almost impossible. I am working to put up strong boundaries so that we have as little interactions as possible.

Part of all these questions is that she just keeps pushing and pushing over stupid crap just because she can... The above example is just one. I only wanted to go for an overnight and then get the boys back for the remainder of my time. There is no reason for her to pull the you cant have them Sunday night other than to be mean. I had arranged for them to be with my parents and go to the football game using my tickets and just spend the night and my parents would get some quality time with them as well which they have been missing through all this.

im desperately trying to co-parent with her and work together but its like trying to reason with a rabid pit bull. You are right, it comes across, and i think she is being far too open with our oldest child. He has mentioned the arguing and i hate it, i desperately want to get along. I don't like the arguing either, and i try not to, but its hard when she jsut keeps pushing and pushing and at some point you end up backed against a wall and there is no where left to go... That's where I feel i am at this point and im just trying to figure out what i can push back on and what i just have to take.

I'm not sure i understand your first statement, imposing upon her how? I didn't ask her to take them...in fact, i asked her to let my parents have the boys for some quality time. Her desire to be mean is so strong that she is giving up a trip she has planned just so my parents would not have the kids. My parents are good christian people who would give anyone the shirt off their backs, and have bent over backwards our entire marriage to help us when we needed it without asking for anything in return. so this isn't about my parents being a bad influence or hurting the kids.

i know im rambling a bit, but i'm frustrated with being pushed around. i'm taking a lot in an effort to get along, but the more i give, the more she continues to take...

You can't complain about the CP in one sense, then impose upon the CP in another sense.
If you have scheduled time, be smart, do YOURSELF a favor, HONOR the agreement.
Your children can go with you.
Or, you can be a father, not attend a conflicting (time wise) event.
You're as responsible for some of her obstinance and intransigence, as she is for the remainder.
You guys need to stop fighting.
Your children see this behavior.
It's teaching them things I'm sure you're not trying to impart.
Read your post.
You're making a choice NOT to spend the ENTIRE allotted time with YOUR children.
The ONLY time that should ever happen is when you're ill, if one of your very close relatives (which would also be theirs) were to be gravely ill or deceased, or a catastrophic emergency were to occur.

 

[army judge]

I appreciate your comments, and i don't want this to sound argumentative because i spend every minute I can with my boys, including their sporting events when its not my time and taking them to sporting events when my ex will allow...and any other things they are doing. I never leave them to go out other than maybe 30 minutes to run to the store. I'm not thinking 1 time in 4 months will scar them for life. This happens to be a special event for my department at my university and the head of the department contacted me personally to ask me to attend. Not that the reasons matter to the kids... I am not, however, running off willy nilly all the time and not utilizing my time.

As for the arguing, i agree 100 percent. I am trying my best to get along, but she seems insistent on making that almost impossible. I am working to put up strong boundaries so that we have as little interactions as possible.

Part of all these questions is that she just keeps pushing and pushing over stupid crap just because she can... The above example is just one. I only wanted to go for an overnight and then get the boys back for the remainder of my time. There is no reason for her to pull the you cant have them Sunday night other than to be mean. I had arranged for them to be with my parents and go to the football game using my tickets and just spend the night and my parents would get some quality time with them as well which they have been missing through all this.

im desperately trying to co-parent with her and work together but its like trying to reason with a rabid pit bull. You are right, it comes across, and i think she is being far too open with our oldest child. He has mentioned the arguing and i hate it, i desperately want to get along. I don't like the arguing either, and i try not to, but its hard when she jsut keeps pushing and pushing and at some point you end up backed against a wall and there is no where left to go... That's where I feel i am at this point and im just trying to figure out what i can push back on and what i just have to take.

I'm not sure i understand your first statement, imposing upon her how? I didn't ask her to take them...in fact, i asked her to let my parents have the boys for some quality time. Her desire to be mean is so strong that she is giving up a trip she has planned just so my parents would not have the kids. My parents are good christian people who would give anyone the shirt off their backs, and have bent over backwards our entire marriage to help us when we needed it without asking for anything in return. so this isn't about my parents being a bad influence or hurting the kids.

i know im rambling a bit, but i'm frustrated with being pushed around. i'm taking a lot in an effort to get along, but the more i give, the more she continues to take...

She feels that you impose upon her.
You feel she's being mean.
This is between you and her.
No one can assist you with that.
You divorced her (and she you) for a laundry lists of grievances, I'm sure f that.
You no longer love, or like each other.
I get it.
Everyone gets it.
That doesn't matter, except YOUR kids get it, too!

It's not about two adults who despise each other.
It's about children they both love, and should be trying to co-parent.
Those are your children.
If they were mine, I'd take a million arrows to keep them safe.
I wouldn't want them to experience my stupidity.
That's me.
You, of course are you.
We're all different.

I have no personal experience with divorce, except as an attorney.
Luckily, I've been married to the same woman for most of my adult life.
However, I've learned that in marriage or divorce, as long as you're responsible for parenting; children must be the prime directive.
Parenting takes most of every waking hour, and I did sleep with one eye open. Ths was especially true when mine hit their teenage years.

As with marriage, I've been lucky as a parent, avoiding out of wedlock births, drugs, crime, drop outs, and other difficult things.

I learned as a parent, it was never about me. That's how I roll today, me time, I'm a retired grandparent.
I suggest you take those hits for your children.
You're an adult, free to do whatever you choose.
I have no control over you, and I want no control over anything or anyone.
Managing this old carcass is enough for an army of MES!!!!
I suggest you discuss your concerns with your attorney.
You might also speak with those people who are licensed relationship therapists, marital counselors, or therapists.

I can only share what worked for me.
I an tell you, and others, the law takes little note of these things that bother or annoy you.
I wish you well.

 

[shrinkmaster]

I belong to a Parenting and Relationship forum affiliated with this site. You might find parents and/or Divorced couples there who went through what your going through and can help guide you through experience. After all they have been there. You might try there as well here is site http://www.parentnook.com/forum/

 

[ElleMD]

You have posted a number of times and the answer is always the same; you either get to do everything you want when you want, or you can be a parent. Why not take the kids to your alma mater. Show them off to whomever invited you. Let them see where Dad spent some very memorable years and take them to your favorite haunts.

As for the grands, invite them over when you have the kids.

 

[mykidsdad]

You have posted a number of times and the answer is always the same; you either get to do everything you want when you want, or you can be a parent. Why not take the kids to your alma mater. Show them off to whomever invited you. Let them see where Dad spent some very memorable years and take them to your favorite haunts.

As for the grands, invite them over when you have the kids.

I am in no way trying to do everything I want to do... i'm trying to find out my rights in general to that I can continue to BE a parent to them, i'm not trying to figure out how to NOT be a parent. i'm trying to protect my time, not allow her to take away more...

I have taken them there a few times, but never for events like this. They would be bored silly at awards presentations, speakers and such... They would like the football game, but I have arranged for them to use both of my tickets and go with my parents.

 

[ElleMD]

I don't know you. I don't know your ex. I don't know your kids or parents. I have zero stake in how this turns out. All I know is what I see you share here which is a mish mash of looking for technical violations your ex might be committing, wanting more time with your kids and complaining that parenting time is eating into your social life. You can be father of the year but from what is shared here, it comes across as vindictive, passive aggressive and more interested in sticking it to your ex than truly parenting your children. If it sounds that way to me who doesn't know you, it is going to sound that way to a judge should you end up in court. Your ex could make Mommy Dearest look like a love story, but you aren't helping yourself any.

My advice is to focus on the kids. If that means skipping bowling or Homecoming, do it. If that means taking the kids along on the trip, cutting back on the social aspect and having the grands take them to a movie during the ceremony they can't sit through, do it. If your ex is looking for ammunition against you, you are handing it to her on a silver platter.

Forget about what friends she has and who she spends time with away from the kids. For that matter, unless you have a really good reason to think a certain person is harmful to the children, forget what friends are around the kids.

 

[shrinkmaster]

When I first separated (pending Divorce) from my EX I spend way too much time trying to find fault with EX and her part of parenting plan and I even had kids! What happened was I lost focus on what I should be dealing with (my kids) and put all my time and effort into trying to screw EX. I went as far as too contact AIG and other officials and as stated I had kids! I let my anger with her take over my normal rational thinking. My kids began to suffer fortunately I saw this in time corrected the behavior (with help) and now all of them are doing very well. Oldest is on his own with his own child. Second oldest is in her second year of College and youngest with my EX is a Senior in High School and in top 15% of his class. None of this would have happened if I didn't wake up. This is why I ask you again to visit the forum I gave and talk to other parents who have been through the same