Fired, no letter of termination refuse PTO pay
- Thread Starter jparman
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re: termination, i have not actually been given any specific reasons for my termination, thus why i requested a letter of termination.
what happened is i was asked to meet, asked about four specific circumstances, i gave sound rational, the manager said she wanted to stop the meeting and re-look at things, she then asked to meet again and started by saying, "we are going ahead with out decision, this is your last day here." i asked if i could ask some questions and she said no. that was it, no specific reasons for firing. is that legal?
what happened is i was asked to meet, asked about four specific circumstances, i gave sound rational, the manager said she wanted to stop the meeting and re-look at things, she then asked to meet again and started by saying, "we are going ahead with out decision, this is your last day here." i asked if i could ask some questions and she said no. that was it, no specific reasons for firing. is that legal?
thanks, i don't see that as rude.....however i have a degree in hr management (but switched career paths to mental health services)....when working as director of hr re: two firings we believed would become litigious, my research stated that "at will" means.....a company can fire for any "legal and valid reason," discrimination for example not being one. but i believe there is other basis, for example inequitable procedures or favoritism toward others, or allowing same/equal/higher standards to go undisciplined by others, which has occurred.
we always gave the reason and worked through it methodically and with documentation and worked hard believing it was necessary to truly protect ourselves. having been on that side i can say this was sloppy, not well thought through, poorly communicated and based on personal issues.
i know this firing is not right. my main goal is to get my "eligible" status back and a good letter of reference. i will not quit easy, there are too many facts that would take too long to give here and i'm not sure every response here is either completely accurate or that i have fully informed of all information.
but main point is "at will" is not actually a license to fire for any old reason in any fashion and the companies i worked for took it very serious and not so straight forward.
what i have been told is that a company is not required to give a letter of termination, but i realized i failed to inform that in fact no reason has been given, therefore this is a different question.
we always gave the reason and worked through it methodically and with documentation and worked hard believing it was necessary to truly protect ourselves. having been on that side i can say this was sloppy, not well thought through, poorly communicated and based on personal issues.
i know this firing is not right. my main goal is to get my "eligible" status back and a good letter of reference. i will not quit easy, there are too many facts that would take too long to give here and i'm not sure every response here is either completely accurate or that i have fully informed of all information.
but main point is "at will" is not actually a license to fire for any old reason in any fashion and the companies i worked for took it very serious and not so straight forward.
what i have been told is that a company is not required to give a letter of termination, but i realized i failed to inform that in fact no reason has been given, therefore this is a different question.
Heres some advice go find an Attorney familar with Labor law and tell him what your not telling us then proceed based on his advice!silly....i think...... is being condescending and ungracious on a public forum, a place where people do not have to be perfect.
smart.....i think is recognizing that some distinguishing information was incidentally left out and may change an answer....courage is to face this difficult and unfair circumstances.....humility through vulnerability is to seek help, which this site offers, and is what i'm doing.
i have already selected an attorney. integrity is choosing to not be a victim.....do some good homework and answer some questions and saving the really tough stuff for the $200/hr fee.
arrogance....i think, is forgetting why one participates in a public forum and forgetting what its like to be the little guy in a tight spot, trying to do his best with limited resources and failing to appreciate the human traits of smarts, courage, humility, vulnerability and integrity, not to mention emotions and three kids that depend on daddy. I did not join this site to be ridiculed....are you sure you stand on higher ground?...but its ok, this is the kind of attitude i'm fighting against in this case and i will take it and persevere to my destination.
smart.....i think is recognizing that some distinguishing information was incidentally left out and may change an answer....courage is to face this difficult and unfair circumstances.....humility through vulnerability is to seek help, which this site offers, and is what i'm doing.
i have already selected an attorney. integrity is choosing to not be a victim.....do some good homework and answer some questions and saving the really tough stuff for the $200/hr fee.
arrogance....i think, is forgetting why one participates in a public forum and forgetting what its like to be the little guy in a tight spot, trying to do his best with limited resources and failing to appreciate the human traits of smarts, courage, humility, vulnerability and integrity, not to mention emotions and three kids that depend on daddy. I did not join this site to be ridiculed....are you sure you stand on higher ground?...but its ok, this is the kind of attitude i'm fighting against in this case and i will take it and persevere to my destination.
Patricia_Young
New Member
You were told at least eight times in this thread what was legally required (none of it) and what recourse you might have.
We get tired of trying to bang things into people's heads. If there was a "but what if?" this situation or that situation, we would have told you so.
We get tired of trying to bang things into people's heads. If there was a "but what if?" this situation or that situation, we would have told you so.
sorry i disagree....i listed termination without verbal explanation only once (which is different from the issue of no termination letter) and it has not been responded too, let alone eight times.
feel free to say yes, no or nothing.....but "eight times" is more of the same emotional exaggeration designed to meet personal need, personal judgment, that people are too tiring (and implied to ignorant), which again i think opposes the spirit and intent of this site.
to assume anyone has calculated all the "what ifs" in brief pointed questions, especially not knowing the credentials or experience of who is responding, though i'm sure all here are knowledgeable, is a huge assumption grounded mostly in blind faith at this point....even the disclaimer above suggests the best advice (or most complete) might not come from these replies.
never the less i am grateful for every reply, the effort made, and even personal emotion expressed. and in response, i too have now added personal emotion/thought, which i hope will be equally respected, equally exchanged.
feel free to say yes, no or nothing.....but "eight times" is more of the same emotional exaggeration designed to meet personal need, personal judgment, that people are too tiring (and implied to ignorant), which again i think opposes the spirit and intent of this site.
to assume anyone has calculated all the "what ifs" in brief pointed questions, especially not knowing the credentials or experience of who is responding, though i'm sure all here are knowledgeable, is a huge assumption grounded mostly in blind faith at this point....even the disclaimer above suggests the best advice (or most complete) might not come from these replies.
never the less i am grateful for every reply, the effort made, and even personal emotion expressed. and in response, i too have now added personal emotion/thought, which i hope will be equally respected, equally exchanged.
It doesn't matter whether there is a reason or not, the answer is the same. The employer in the state of Florida is not required to provide you with a reason as to why you were terminated or provide a letter stating the reason. The employer is also under no obligation by law to provide you with a reference.thanks, i don't see that as rude.....however i have a degree in hr management (but switched career paths to mental health services)....when working as director of hr re: two firings we believed would become litigious, my research stated that "at will" means.....a company can fire for any "legal and valid reason," discrimination for example not being one. but i believe there is other basis, for example inequitable procedures or favoritism toward others, or allowing same/equal/higher standards to go undisciplined by others, which has occurred.
we always gave the reason and worked through it methodically and with documentation and worked hard believing it was necessary to truly protect ourselves. having been on that side i can say this was sloppy, not well thought through, poorly communicated and based on personal issues.
i know this firing is not right. my main goal is to get my "eligible" status back and a good letter of reference. i will not quit easy, there are too many facts that would take too long to give here and i'm not sure every response here is either completely accurate or that i have fully informed of all information.
but main point is "at will" is not actually a license to fire for any old reason in any fashion and the companies i worked for took it very serious and not so straight forward.
what i have been told is that a company is not required to give a letter of termination, but i realized i failed to inform that in fact no reason has been given, therefore this is a different question.
Bottom line is unless you had a bona fide contract or were part of a collective bargaining unit, you were at-will and the employer has done nothing illegal based on what yopu have posted.
the above quote is what i stated and having worked with this attorney i know he appreciates me doing homework and coming prepared, even to the initial consultation.
dishonesty is a false accusation, realizing more information may be needed is not an act of dishonesty.
jacksgal
New Member
Then you call it what you want to I don't care! The bottom line is you came here for answers but did not provide us with all the info! How do you expect to get good replies if you do not give us what we need to do so? As I said you have an Attorney your advice should come from him not a forum site.
..............where is cbg when I need her?
new users often don't know what all information is relevant...i'm sure i'm not the first...and my personality leans toward efficiency and simplicity and add data as it becomes apparent or asked for.
however bottom line is your critical and over reactionary comments are now not wanted. enough. please don't help me anymore. sorry for bothering you. thank you for the helpful comments you did make.
however bottom line is your critical and over reactionary comments are now not wanted. enough. please don't help me anymore. sorry for bothering you. thank you for the helpful comments you did make.
true i don't get to choose.....if you have a helpful factual comment reply....otherwise if it continues to be personal and emotional i'm just asking for the respect of silence....not a demand, just a request ...but yes you are free to do as you choose, all i can do is ask for respect...but it seems you do care, ironically, and you do seem to have legal integrity, want me to lay it all on the line so you can give your best assessment? you seem to be a lawyer or have a great deal of knowledge....maybe we could have a good working relationship?
cbg
Super Moderator
Okay, chiming in late here.
First, neither Florida nor Federal law requires that you be paid out any unused PTO or vacation. It's really pointless to argue any semantical questions of what earned means, because the law simply does not require that it be paid out, period.
Likewise, there is no Federal or Florida law that requires that you be given any kind of notice of termination. In fact, few states do have any such requirement.
So, summing up, it is LEGAL for them to refuse to pay out your unused PTO.
It is LEGAL for them to refuse to give you any kind of letter of termination.
Any other questions?
First, neither Florida nor Federal law requires that you be paid out any unused PTO or vacation. It's really pointless to argue any semantical questions of what earned means, because the law simply does not require that it be paid out, period.
Likewise, there is no Federal or Florida law that requires that you be given any kind of notice of termination. In fact, few states do have any such requirement.
So, summing up, it is LEGAL for them to refuse to pay out your unused PTO.
It is LEGAL for them to refuse to give you any kind of letter of termination.
Any other questions?
theretoo
New Member
Move to California where employees have rights
I am chiming in a bit late as well, the only comment I have is in regards to being "male" as a protected status, yes, indeed, it can be. Sexual harassment or disdrimintation is not based on only the "female" sex.
Gender specifity is not required for sexual harassment or discrimination
To clarify, it is not only the "female" gender that can be harassed or discriminated against
I am chiming in a bit late as well, the only comment I have is in regards to being "male" as a protected status, yes, indeed, it can be. Sexual harassment or disdrimintation is not based on only the "female" sex.
Gender specifity is not required for sexual harassment or discrimination
To clarify, it is not only the "female" gender that can be harassed or discriminated against
Patricia_Young
New Member
I have been reluctant to say more, cuz it may be more about me than the OP, but we appear to have almost identical situations, so I know from whence I speak. 
I (we'all) can tell from the OP's tone that he was not happy where he was, and that it sounds like that dissatisfaction was returned in kind. He feels he was slighted, disfavored, and he probably was. He feels hurt.
I did.
The fact is that sometimes you get tossed in with someone who does not like you and things don't work out. You are the first to be let go.
That's the way life is and unless a whole bunch of old guys, or some other protected class, is discriminated against, sorry Charlie.
So, go find a fun place to work, with people who appreciate you.
I did.
Also, I studied Labor Relations, back then called Industrial Relations, the forerunner to Human Resources. I worked on a Masters with a well-known IR guy, a member of the War Labor Board, so I, too, have been inclinated toward matters of the workplace, although I did not/do not do that for a living
I (we'all) can tell from the OP's tone that he was not happy where he was, and that it sounds like that dissatisfaction was returned in kind. He feels he was slighted, disfavored, and he probably was. He feels hurt.
I did.
The fact is that sometimes you get tossed in with someone who does not like you and things don't work out. You are the first to be let go.
That's the way life is and unless a whole bunch of old guys, or some other protected class, is discriminated against, sorry Charlie.
So, go find a fun place to work, with people who appreciate you.
I did.
Also, I studied Labor Relations, back then called Industrial Relations, the forerunner to Human Resources. I worked on a Masters with a well-known IR guy, a member of the War Labor Board, so I, too, have been inclinated toward matters of the workplace, although I did not/do not do that for a living
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