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Dungeon Hiring Practices

Discussion in 'Hiring, Applications, Background Checks' started by StephanieM, Apr 8, 2010.

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  1. StephanieM

    StephanieM Law Topic Starter New Member

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    Hi,

    I'm an independent Domme, never trained only utilizing my own smarts and a small paddle to do sessions for masochists.

    I went to a dungeon recently in hopes of being hired. At a previous dungeon, the woman was very nice and helped show me the ropes of using certain equipment properly.

    At this dungeon however, the owner said I had to be "tested" to be sure I was a "real" Domme (silly - anyone doing Domme is a Domme, the way a janitor is a janitor while doing janitorial work. When I am not doing Domme, I am in school, starting a non-profit and just bought a small business).

    Immediately I felt on the spot, as if I was supposed to prove I was something based entirely on their ethereal judgment or discrimination of me, or I wouldn't be hired.

    They told me I would be doing a "test" session. The test was not laid out clearly but they called a subjugate girl in, I assumed this was who I was to do the test on so I started interviewing her to see what she enjoyed in her sessions. They stopped me, said I was to just "show them" what I do, and not with the sub girl, but with another woman in the room. She asked for trampling so I asked her to lay on the floor (I was going to trample around her body, as this practice of the test was now confusing me, seemed highly unusual, and I did not want to step on the woman's body, plus the specifics of what the test was or what I was supposed to do were not laid out for me, only that I was being tested to see if I was "real"

    She did not obey my command, so to show them what I do in my independant sessions, I walked up to her, put my hand on her throat gently, and said firmly, lay down (it was 100% non violent). This woman (who claims to be a "real" domme) didn't like being in the "sub" position so she sprang up, threw me against a mirror, and clamped a hand on my throat, screaming at me to never do that to her. I asked her to take her hand off my throat and she refused. A physical scuffle ensued as I shoved her off me and she tried to stay on me, saying "I'm not scared of you!"

    The owner sat in a chair this whole time, watching this happen, and never once told his employee to not attack me.

    Then, as I told them this was ridiculous, and a verbal fight ensued over them telling me that I am not "real" and they are "real." I realized I had lost my self control and cool after being attacked and walked out.

    I know this sounds silly to some, but this dungeon is still a business run by a business owner. I do not know if these hiring tactics are legal or not, but they didn't feel so. they felt designed for intimidation, degradation, and discrimination based on some idea of what is "real" or not "real" - which is an illusory concept.

    I say this because there is no way someone can say I am an "unreal" domme when this has been my profession for years now. And how can the other woman there be considered any more real than I, if we both do sessions - she with specialized equipment, I with clothespins and a paddle?

    BEFORE the interview, I had a phone interview in which I specifically told the shop owner that I was a working Domme but that I was NOT trained in specialized equipment. I let him know someone would have to show me the ropes.

    Is what happened, a legal hiring practice?

    If I had simply been told "we are not hiring unless you are trained with equipment" I would have felt FINE. I could have then asked how to get trained.

    Instead, I was put through some kind of trial, when I had SPECIFICALLY stated that I needed training in the special equipment.

    Please let me know if this is an illegal hiring practice, or if the attack made on me is illegal, and what to do about it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2010
    dckrtny likes this.
  2. Patricia_Young

    Patricia_Young New Member

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    Do. Not. Comment. On. Job. I have to admit I couldn't stomach reading that whole post.

    If you were applying as an independent contractor, wage and hour and other fair hiring practices do not apply to you.
     
  3. jharris352

    jharris352 New Member

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    I just have to say it: Is that a pun?

    Dear, your question is so far out of the box you can not even see the box from where you are standing.

    First, they were not hiring an employee they were hiring an independent contractor PERFORMER. They can require the PERFORMER be whatever they want you to be. The can define Domme OR Sub any way they desire.

    Are you sure they didn't sexually harass you too?

    And finally: ONLY in California!
     
  4. StephanieM

    StephanieM Law Topic Starter New Member

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    It's not my concern your judgments on what masochists want, nor if you believe only men can remain dominants while women are subbed out from birth on and it's considered ok in a previously and still mostly male dominant culture whereas powerful "top" women are reviled.

    My concern was, is this legal or not?

    I recognize that you do not CARE about sex workers, dommes, or other people like that. Most people don't, for whatever twisted admiration (envy) or secret interest, who knows. This is why many workers in these industries are attacked raped and sometimes killed while "good" people like yourselves secretly snicker and laugh.

    Fortunately the law recognizes everyone as a human whatever your consensual lifestyle choices are.

    My question is, is this a LEGAL hiring practice - even for an independent contractor?

    I don't feel that a physical attack is legal hiring practice for an independent contractor. Nor an illusory discrimination.

    And to clarify this was a HIGHLY unusual thing that happened. As well, masochist clients treat me with respect and do not and are not allowed to attack or harm me - only to protect me. So the scenario set up was unreal. If a customer did this to me, I would have called 911 immediately.

    Hopefully an actual non-partial lawyer will reply.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2010
  5. jharris352

    jharris352 New Member

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    Possibly you will push your biases aside and ACTUALLY READ WHAT WE SAID. If you think you are going to waltz in here with a long post about something like that without getting a little joking you are nuts. Grow some thicker skin.

    Nonetheless we answered your legal question, not once but TWICE. Stop your silliness and read:

    If you don't like my answer, here is Patricia's

    Again, I know you don't like it but that ANSWERS your question.



    They can require that a Performer be or live up to whatever they want. You don't have a clue what I think of sex workers. The answer to your question is simple:

    ABSOLUTELY they can do what they did. But that's what we both said the first time before you got so defensive.

    YOU AREN'T AN EMPLOYEE, you are an INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR. Legally they can ask you to do practically whatever they want to qualify for the job.
     
  6. StephanieM

    StephanieM Law Topic Starter New Member

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    So you are saying that it is perfectly legal to attack an independent contractor in a hiring process?
     
  7. StephanieM

    StephanieM Law Topic Starter New Member

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    IF that's true, then perhaps I should make it into a case. I don't see how someone being attacked (esp. if not informed that this is part of the hiring process) can be legal.

    I can see it being legal if someone is a boxer, and the terms are clearly laid out = that you must be attacked and fight in order to be hired.

    But not to someone within an industry where it is the norm to be politely informed of the company policies, procedures, and trained if necessary.
     
  8. jharris352

    jharris352 New Member

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    The attack has nothing to do with the hiring practice. You didn't ask if the attack was legal you asked if the hiring practice was legal. If you want to file assault and battery charges it MAY BE criminal. But the fact that it happened in the context of a hiring isn't going to change the outcome.
     
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  9. jharris352

    jharris352 New Member

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    You are changing the complaint. You wanted to know if the test was a legal hiring practice. The short answer is that YES they can test you and determine if you are what they want. You have no valid complaint about the hiring practice. If you want to make an issue about the assault and battery you can give it a try.

    Although I would consider the fact that your job is rather physical and contemplates some rough physical contact.

    But as to your QUESTION, there is nothing wrong with testing you and holding you to their standard or what is good or bad in the domme world.
     
  10. StephanieM

    StephanieM Law Topic Starter New Member

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    So, the fact that the owner sat there and watched, while he had set this up as a hiring "test" - and didnt tell her to stop - this has no connection?

    And so your are saying that if I am hiring an independent contractor for a Caucasian camera position, I can decide not to hire someone because they have a great great great great African American grandmother? I make up all the discriminatory rules if it's an independent contractor?
     
  11. jharris352

    jharris352 New Member

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    You don't want legal advice, you want us to back your position. You are wrong. It isn't a hiring problem. If anything it may be an assault and battery. That's it.
     
  12. StephanieM

    StephanieM Law Topic Starter New Member

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    ok, I understand that the test had no connection with the employee attack and the owner is under no responsibility to stop an employee from attacking me in a hiring proceedure.

    The test felt like a set up, was not explained and definately not what happens in ANY normal domme situation - EVER. nor in any hiring practices.

    However, I'll grant that he must just be a completely shabby business owner with terribly hiring practices, obviously, taking a look at his current employees.

    But I still am not seeing why this wasn't a case of discrimination. I am a "real" domme so that makes no sense to be a reason in not hiring me. A "real" person is one in that profession.

    Like I said above, if someone is trying to be hired and I tell them they are not a "real" white person, wouldn't that be similar?
     
  13. StephanieM

    StephanieM Law Topic Starter New Member

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    No - My job is NOT physical - NOT TOWARD MYSELF
     
  14. jharris352

    jharris352 New Member

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    It's really simple. In order to be illegal "discrimination" you have to be a member of a protected class. Sex, race, religion, disabled, etc. being a "real domme" (whatever that means) is not a protected class so you can't be illegally discriminated against. They can decide they don't like the way you perform, there is no norms and practices standard book for what is or is not a "real domme." They are free to chose what they like and dislike. Does that make sense?

    Illegal discrimination is about protected classes of people. People are allowed to discriminate just not on race, creed, color, sex, disability, and sometimes sexual orientation.
     
  15. StephanieM

    StephanieM Law Topic Starter New Member

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    I see.

    Well, since everything that happened was perfectly legal, I know what I will do. I'll wait a few months until my business, which is expanding rapidly and about to pop into an insanely ludicrous income, does so.

    Then I'll have someone send him an invite to an independent contractor position I am hiring for.

    We'll see how that goes. lol.

    Thanks for the info. Ridiculous that it's not illegal. But interesting info for his future.
     
  16. jharris352

    jharris352 New Member

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    You do know that only men can be Doms right?
     
  17. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

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    Attacking anyone without provocation, is not legal.

    You could have filed a police report.

    You can still bring a civil action for an unlawful battery.

    I doubt that you could prevail, but you could bring such an action.

    It is oxymoronic to say that a potential independent contractor could ever be hired.

    Independent contractors aren't hired or employed.

    Be prepared for "them" to say that you provoked the other person with your choke hold.

    They'll say the reaction was merely self defense.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  18. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

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    Brother, I am astounded (and a bit uncomfortable) with your knowledge of that "bitness"!!!




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  19. jharris352

    jharris352 New Member

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    I was just poking at her. She was very defensive earlier and said something about men not being the only ones who could be dommes or something like that. I was bored and she is reactionary. She left before she read it.
     
  20. StephanieM

    StephanieM Law Topic Starter New Member

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    I'm implementing a (legal) procedure to procure a formal apology letter from both people involved, which is happening at the moment. your advice on the legality of an assault was of great help.

    Because people are often very disrespectful, and the law is spotty very often, I'm taking it into My own hands to enforce their respect.

    I've chosen to go this route because I do not wish to fight with a dungeon which houses Dommes.

    However, if they continue such disrespect to the women who walk through their doors, I will make it public to My entire community that this dungeon is nothing but a fraud; has nothing to do with respecting women, and destroying the reputation of a place which is not respecting the women will do nothing to harm Dommes, only to further empower the women workers.

    Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2010

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