Does a ROW convey to new owners? What are the limits of conditions specified within the ROW?

[tormail]

Jurisdiction

Massachusetts

I am considering purchasing a piece of land enrolled in a MA forestry program. The land is landlocked but does have a deeded ROW specifying that the ROW is only under the condition that it be used by the owner for the harvest of forestry products. It also states that hunting and fishing cannot be restricted by the owner and that by doing so the owner will forfeit all rights to the ROW. How binding is this, and what's the likelihood of it being converted to allow residential or other agricultural uses? What is the law in MA concerning landlocked properties? I have read up on MA forestry land laws and understand the ramifications of converting to residential, and as well the provision for allowing the parcel to contain a a residence for the purpose of tending to the forest. What's the likelihood of me being allowed to traverse or improve this ROW for the purpose of building a home to manage the forest? Attached is a segment of the deed defining the ROW. I did not want to include the entire deed for obvious reasons.

 

[army judge]

ow binding is this, and what's the likelihood of it being converted to allow residential or other agricultural uses? What is the law in MA concerning landlocked properties?

Do yourself a big favor, pal.

Don't purchase any real estate BEFORE you retain the services of a licensed, real estate attorney.

If you proceed after seeking information from anonymous, internet denizens, you just might be in for one of the WORST FINANCIAL FLEECINGS of your life.

 

[tormail]

Do yourself a big favor, pal.

Don't purchase any real estate BEFORE you retain the services of a licensed, real estate attorney.

If you proceed after seeking information from anonymous, internet denizens, you just might be in for one of the WORST FINANCIAL FLEECINGS of your life.

Yes I understand that. But a preliminary search is valuable, considering attorneys don't work for free.

 

[zddoodah]

How binding is this

I don't entirely understand the question. It's either binding or it isn't, and we have no reason to think it isn't.

what's the likelihood of it being converted to allow residential or other agricultural uses? . . . What's the likelihood of me being allowed to traverse or improve this ROW for the purpose of building a home to manage the forest?

I'm at a loss to understand why you'd think anyone here might know these things.

What is the law in MA concerning landlocked properties?

There are probably dozens of laws applicable to landlocked properties. The most obviously law (although it may be a common law doctrine rather than statutory law) is that the owner/possessor of landlocked property may have an easement by necessity over adjacent properties. The existence of an express easement may negate any easement by necessity.

You would be extremely foolish to proceed with this transaction without obtaining advice from a local land use attorney.

 

[tormail]

I don't entirely understand the question. It's either binding or it isn't, and we have no reason to think it isn't.




I'm at a loss to understand why you'd think anyone here might know these things.




There are probably dozens of laws applicable to landlocked properties. The most obviously law (although it may be a common law doctrine rather than statutory law) is that the owner/possessor of landlocked property may have an easement by necessity over adjacent properties. The existence of an express easement may negate any easement by necessity.

You would be extremely foolish to proceed with this transaction without obtaining advice from a local land use attorney.

"I'm at a loss to understand why you'd think anyone here might know these things."
Why is it so hard to believe that a person educated in the law, or with experience may be on a legal advice forum? What does one do if the property own with an easement on his property refuses to allow passage?

 

[tormail]

I don't entirely understand the question. It's either binding or it isn't, and we have no reason to think it isn't.

I'm at a loss to understand why you'd think anyone here might know these things.

There are probably dozens of laws applicable to landlocked properties. The most obviously law (although it may be a common law doctrine rather than statutory law) is that the owner/possessor of landlocked property may have an easement by necessity over adjacent properties. The existence of an express easement may negate any easement by necessity.

You would be extremely foolish to proceed with this transaction without obtaining advice from a local land use attorney.

" and is to be used by him only for the purpose of harvesting forest products" This is my biggest concern, is the intent to grant access to him only, or to harvest forest products only?

 

[tormail]

Yes I understand it would be foolish, My concern is MA is not kind to people seeking a easement of necessity, and MA courts have ruled that is the original landowner created a landlocked piece of property then he must have intended to do so. I would think that could be a very real outcome for almost anyone with this circumstance. So my concern is the wording of the easement and its ability to be contested. I feel that there exists the potential for two different interpretations and outcomes. Ideally the specific requests in the easement would not be enforceable, but the access portion is. IDK I am pretty ignorant

 

[army judge]

IDK I am pretty ignorant

Another extremely good reason to secure legal counsel before proceeding.

To not secure legal counsel and to purchase the property "just because an attorney costs money" will end up costing you so much more moola than you can currently envision.

 

[zddoodah]

"I'm at a loss to understand why you'd think anyone here might know these things."
Why is it so hard to believe that a person educated in the law, or with experience may be on a legal advice forum?

I don't think that's hard to believe at all. However, that has nothing to do with what I wrote. My response that you quoted related to two questions you asked that were not, in any way, legal in nature. You asked about the likelihood of the neighboring landowner allowing modification of your ROW. No one here could possibly answer that intelligently.

What does one do if the property own with an easement on his property refuses to allow passage?

If the owner of property over which an access easement exists is refusing to allow access, the recourse is to sue to enforce the easement.

My concern is MA is not kind to people seeking a easement of necessity, and MA courts have ruled that is the original landowner created a landlocked piece of property then he must have intended to do so. I would think that could be a very real outcome for almost anyone with this circumstance. So my concern is the wording of the easement and its ability to be contested. I feel that there exists the potential for two different interpretations and outcomes.

And that's exactly why you need to consult with a local land use attorney. If you proceed with this transaction without obtaining advice from a local expert, you are buying a host of problems.

 

[tormail]

I don't think that's hard to believe at all. However, that has nothing to do with what I wrote. My response that you quoted related to two questions you asked that were not, in any way, legal in nature. You asked about the likelihood of the neighboring landowner allowing modification of your ROW. No one here could possibly answer that intelligently.




If the owner of property over which an access easement exists is refusing to allow access, the recourse is to sue to enforce the easement.




And that's exactly why you need to consult with a local land use attorney. If you proceed with this transaction without obtaining advice from a local expert, you are buying a host of problems.

Thank you

 

[tormail]

So why are town bylaws so intrusive in our lives? If a property owner is unable to afford to build on his property, he should be able to make accommodations on his property that allow him to save up until he can afford to do so. Ordinances that prevent this very thing are unconstitutional imo, because they deprive underprivileged citizens the opportunity to advance themselves. Being poor should not be a crime. But it is. What's the chances of a judge agreeing with me?

 

[Tax Counsel]

What's the chances of a judge agreeing with me?

There is no way I can tell you that because I don't know what the laws are that you are complaining about. Being poor is not a crime, but it does make a lot of things much more difficult. The government generally is not required to bend its rules simply based on the wealth (or lack of wealth) of the individual involved. I don't see any Constitutional violation just from what you provided here, but there might be other ways to attack the problem. Look for a legal aid clinic or an organization that advocates for housing solutions for the indigent. That hopefully will give you the information you need to see where you stand and what options may be available to help you.

 

[adjusterjack]

Tormail, your credibility is slipping.

In your other thread you started with:

I am considering purchasing a piece of land enrolled in a MA forestry program.

Does a ROW convey to new owners? What are the limits of conditions specified within the ROW? · TheLaw.com

Which implies that you have money with which to buy property.

So why are you whining about being a poor victim of ordinances?

 

[welkin]

I am considering purchasing a piece of land enrolled in a MA forestry program. The land is landlocked but does have a deeded ROW specifying that the ROW is only under the condition that it be used by the owner for the harvest of forestry products. It also states that hunting and fishing cannot be restricted by the owner and that by doing so the owner will forfeit all rights to the ROW. How binding is this, and what's the likelihood of it being converted to allow residential or other agricultural uses? What is the law in MA concerning landlocked properties? I have read up on MA forestry land laws and understand the ramifications of converting to residential, and as well the provision for allowing the parcel to contain a a residence for the purpose of tending to the forest. What's the likelihood of me being allowed to traverse or improve this ROW for the purpose of building a home to manage the forest? Attached is a segment of the deed defining the ROW. I did not want to include the entire deed for obvious reasons.

The language of the ROW express grant you posted is not ambiguous at all. It says what it says.

The ROW is for ingress and egress for the purpose of harvesting lumber products and that is all it grants. The ROW can be improved to facilitate the use of trucks and other equipment to harvest lumber products. Any other use of the ROW is not allowed which would include access to development of any kind on the land.

When a grant specifically states what is allowed and silent on any other use, no other use is allowed.

The grant also states that if you restrict public access to the land for hunting or fishing purposes, that the grant of the ROW terminates meaning there would be no way to harvest lumber. You end up with timber land that pays nothing.

It also states that the terms of the grant are appurtenant, meaning that they are in perpetuity and go with the land (binding future owners to the same grant).

There is nothing in easement case law that would allow the extinguishment of an express grant, except in vary rare cases, and then only by court order or agreement between the servient and dominant estates. I assume that what you mean by MA forestry program is the government run stewardship program. If that is the case, you can forget about ever getting the grant extinguished or changed.

 

[zddoodah]

Ordinances that prevent this very thing are unconstitutional imo

Prevent what? What provision(s) of the federal or Massachusetts Constitution do you think these ordinances violate?

Being poor should not be a crime. But it is.

No it isn't.

What's the chances of a judge agreeing with me?

Probably zero, because your post is largely incoherent.

If you have a legal issue that concerns you, please explain the facts in a concise manner and explain what legal issue you're having based on those facts.

 

[welkin]

So why are town bylaws so intrusive in our lives? If a property owner is unable to afford to build on his property, he should be able to make accommodations on his property that allow him to save up until he can afford to do so. Ordinances that prevent this very thing are unconstitutional imo, because they deprive underprivileged citizens the opportunity to advance themselves. Being poor should not be a crime. But it is. What's the chances of a judge agreeing with me?

I just finished answering your post on timber property you are thinking of buying.

Property that is sold for the purpose of preservation is not the same as property for development where you can build a house or develop it. Thus, preservation property is much cheaper to buy .

But to answer your question here, states give the local governmental jurisdictions the power of Home Rule, meaning that they determine how their municipalities will be developed visa vis-à-vis, zoning and building regulations.

 

[tormail]

I just finished answering your post on timber property you are thinking of buying.

Property that is sold for the purpose of preservation is not the same as property for development where you can build a house or develop it. Thus, preservation property is much cheaper to buy .

But to answer your question here, states give the local governmental jurisdictions the power of Home Rule, meaning that they determine how their municipalities will be developed visa vis-à-vis, zoning and building regulations.

Thank you for the feedback, I understand that, my complaint is to what extent is that power? Is it limitless? This is my complaint. You need a permit or license for virtually everything, inspections, fees, fines, mandatory reports, etc. In some cases depending on the person and circumstances it can be overly burdensome and frankly impossible. I consider myself to be of average intelligence at least, but I am overwhelmed and incapable of doing the things I want to do, based solely on the red tape, and my finances to comply or navigate said redtape. It shouldn't be that way. And If i am oblivious to my lack of intelligence, (certainly possible) should I be left out of housing or opportunity simply because I can't parse the vast sea of laws and regulations?

 

[tormail]

Thank you for the feedback, I understand that, my complaint is to what extent is that power? Is it limitless? This is my complaint. You need a permit or license for virtually everything, inspections, fees, fines, mandatory reports, etc. In some cases depending on the person and circumstances it can be overly burdensome and frankly impossible. I consider myself to be of average intelligence at least, but I am overwhelmed and incapable of doing the things I want to do, based solely on the red tape, and my finances to comply or navigate said redtape. It shouldn't be that way. And If i am oblivious to my lack of intelligence, (certainly possible) should I be left out of housing or opportunity simply because I can't parse the vast sea of laws and regulations?

Further, I can not possibly imagine anyone working harder than I have. I have yet to meet anyone who has. I have had absolutely no generational wealth passed on to me.

 

[tormail]

Tormail, your credibility is slipping.

In your other thread you started with:



Does a ROW convey to new owners? What are the limits of conditions specified within the ROW? · TheLaw.com

Which implies that you have money with which to buy property.

So why are you whining about being a poor victim of ordinances?

 

[tormail]

Having money to buy property and being wealthy are not the same thing.