Dealing with self-insured

[RGMS]

My son was involved in a car accident where the other driver admitted fault, which is confirmed in a police report. There were no injuries to either party. There is significant frontend damage to our car but is still drivable. The other driver is a county employee and has listed the county as their insurance. We contacted the county and were told that they are self-insured and that we have two options in this case.

1. We can submit a claim through our own insurance collision coverage and once the car is repaired, our insurance can submit the claim to the county for reimbursement, including deductible.

2. We can submit a claim directly to the county with an estimate of damages and they will review the estimate and pay us directly.

We did not have collision coverage on the car so option 1 is out. With option 2, we were told by the county that once the claim is submitted, no supplemental payment can be made if the repair place finds additional damages after disassembly. We have taken the car to several repair places and they all say they can only give us a preliminary estimate and can't give a full estimate until the car is disassembled, which they won't do until we commit to them to do the repair.

So, either we have to pay for the full repair ourselves and submit a claim for the total and hope the county approves it, or we have to submit a claim based on the preliminary estimate and hope there are no supplemental costs or we will get stuck paying for them. Either way we could lose money, which doesn't seem right considering the other driver was at fault. Do we have any legal rights to help us in this case?

 

[justblue]

My son was involved in a car accident where the other driver admitted fault, which is confirmed in a police report. There were no injuries to either party. There is significant frontend damage to our car but is still drivable. The other driver is a county employee and has listed the county as their insurance. We contacted the county and were told that they are self-insured and that we have two options in this case.

1. We can submit a claim through our own insurance collision coverage and once the car is repaired, our insurance can submit the claim to the county for reimbursement, including deductible.

2. We can submit a claim directly to the county with an estimate of damages and they will review the estimate and pay us directly.

We did not have collision coverage on the car so option 1 is out. With option 2, we were told by the county that once the claim is submitted, no supplemental payment can be made if the repair place finds additional damages after disassembly. We have taken the car to several repair places and they all say they can only give us a preliminary estimate and can't give a full estimate until the car is disassembled, which they won't do until we commit to them to do the repair.

So, either we have to pay for the full repair ourselves and submit a claim for the total and hope the county approves it, or we have to submit a claim based on the preliminary estimate and hope there are no supplemental costs or we will get stuck paying for them. Either way we could lose money, which doesn't seem right considering the other driver was at fault. Do we have any legal rights to help us in this case?

What state?

 

[RGMS]

California

 

[army judge]

Do we have any legal rights to help us in this case?

This tort law incident has little to do with your rights.

Regardless of the outcome, you retain all of your rights as a citizen of the USA and resident of California.

As regards your son's choices, because he chose NOT to purchase better coverage, he's at the mercy of the self insured county.

Going forward, he might reconsider carrying sufficient automobile insurance in preparation for any other such incident.

 

[adjusterjack]

we were told by the county that once the claim is submitted, no supplemental payment can be made if the repair place finds additional damages after disassembly. We have taken the car to several repair places and they all say they can only give us a preliminary estimate and can't give a full estimate until the car is disassembled, which they won't do until we commit to them to do the repair.

Then commit to the repair and have them start the disassembly so you can get the full damage cost to submit to the county.

You don't have much choice. You're probably going to get the short end of the stick anyway.

By the way, any time you decide to go without collision and comprehensive coverage, you'd better have the money set aside to fix or replace the car on your own. Now you know why.

 

[RGMS]

This tort law incident has little to do with your rights.

Regardless of the outcome, you retain all of your rights as a citizen of the USA and resident of California.

As regards your son's choices, because he chose NOT to purchase better coverage, he's at the mercy of the self insured county.

Going forward, he might reconsider carrying sufficient automobile insurance in preparation for any other such incident.

This tort law incident has little to do with your rights.

Regardless of the outcome, you retain all of your rights as a citizen of the USA and resident of California.

As regards your son's choices, because he chose NOT to purchase better coverage, he's at the mercy of the self insured county.

Going forward, he might reconsider carrying sufficient automobile insurance in preparation for any other such incident.

Ok, thanks for the definition of legal rights...I apparently didn't use the correct terminology for you here. The point was that normally you wouldn't go through your own collision coverage in this instance, you would go through the at fault persons insurance. I just didn't realize that the county self-insurance is not a normal automobile liability insurance that would cover the full damages. That's the legal question I'm asking, whether we can fight this.

The lack of collision insurance was an oversite on our part rather than a decision. When we purchased the vehicle at the dealer, we added the brand new car to the policy to replace his very old car from the policy not realizing the coverage stayed the same. I would have thought our insurance company would have spotted that mistake at the time but we didn't catch it for 2 years until this incident happened. Our mistake and a lessoned learn for the future.

 

[RGMS]

Then commit to the repair and have them start the disassembly so you can get the full damage cost to submit to the county.

You don't have much choice. You're probably going to get the short end of the stick anyway.

By the way, any time you decide to go without collision and comprehensive coverage, you'd better have the money set aside to fix or replace the car on your own. Now you know why.

So the county does not have to have the same liability coverage that all of us have?

 

[army judge]

The point was that normally you wouldn't go through your own collision coverage in this instance, you would go through the at fault persons insurance.

Au contraire, mon ami.

I always go through my insurer.

That's precisely why I pay my insurer, to uncomplicate my life and protect my junk.

I have had the misfortune of having a new vehicle destroyed by an uninsured, undocumented border invader, drugged up, drunked up lout.

In fact, I concluded paperwork at the dealership and was simply taking my car home. I had only owned the vehicle for less than 30 minutes when the bum destroyed it, after running a red-light.

Luckily, I wasn't injured.

The offender also damaged himself, leading to his death 24 hours later.

My insurer handled everything.

That's why I pay my premiums.

I had another new vehicle within 48 hours.

It could have been done within 24 hours.

It took me a couple days to find my replacement vehicle.

 

[Disabled Vet]

Have the repair shop estimate the worst possible damage. Then it's up to the county to fight the charges.

 

[zddoodah]

We contacted the county and were told that they are self-insured and that we have two options in this case.

1. ...

2. ...

It's worth pointing out that these are the same options you'd have if the other party had traditional insurance (by the way, he likely has his own personal auto insurance in addition to the coverage provided through his employer).

we were told by the county that once the claim is submitted, no supplemental payment can be made if the repair place finds additional damages after disassembly.

Bulls**t.

So, either we have to pay for the full repair ourselves and submit a claim for the total and hope the county approves it, or we have to submit a claim based on the preliminary estimate and hope there are no supplemental costs or we will get stuck paying for them. Either way we could lose money, which doesn't seem right considering the other driver was at fault. Do we have any legal rights to help us in this case?

You're entitled to the lesser of the car's fair market value at the time of the accident or the cost to repair it. Not carrying collision coverage carries several risks, and this is one of them. Your options are (1) pay for the repairs and submit for reimbursement (and, if the responsible party doesn't pay in full, you can sue) or (2) accept reimbursement based on an estimate. If you go with option #2, you'll likely have to sign a release that will prevent you from seeking anything beyond the payment.

The point was that normally you wouldn't go through your own collision coverage in this instance, you would go through the at fault persons insurance.

"Normally" is a word that has no real meaning. While it might be the case that it's more common than not to have repairs done under the auspices of the at-fault party's insurance, it's certainly not uncommon to do so through one's own collision coverage.

That's the legal question I'm asking, whether we can fight this.

As my comment above about your options should make clear, there are legal issues but also practical issues in play here. What you can't do is force the county in advance to handle this the same way that an insurance company would.

So the county does not have to have the same liability coverage that all of us have?

Not according to what you told us, and no one here knows anything beyond what you've told us.

 

[Zigner]

The lack of collision insurance was an oversite on our part rather than a decision. When we purchased the vehicle at the dealer, we added the brand new car to the policy to replace his very old car from the policy not realizing the coverage stayed the same.

Did you finance the car, or did you purchase it outright?

 

[RGMS]

Did you finance the car, or did you purchase it outright?

The car was purchased outright

 

[RGMS]

It's worth pointing out that these are the same options you'd have if the other party had traditional insurance (by the way, he likely has his own personal auto insurance in addition to the coverage provided through his employer).



Bulls**t.



You're entitled to the lesser of the car's fair market value at the time of the accident or the cost to repair it. Not carrying collision coverage carries several risks, and this is one of them. Your options are (1) pay for the repairs and submit for reimbursement (and, if the responsible party doesn't pay in full, you can sue) or (2) accept reimbursement based on an estimate. If you go with option #2, you'll likely have to sign a release that will prevent you from seeking anything beyond the payment.



"Normally" is a word that has no real meaning. While it might be the case that it's more common than not to have repairs done under the auspices of the at-fault party's insurance, it's certainly not uncommon to do so through one's own collision coverage.



As my comment above about your options should make clear, there are legal issues but also practical issues in play here. What you can't do is force the county in advance to handle this the same way that an insurance company would.



Not according to what you told us, and no one here knows anything beyond what you've told us.

Thanks...good info. The other driver was driving a vehicle registered to the county but late at night so not sure if it was during her working hours. Does her personal insurance coverage come into play?

 

[zddoodah]

Thanks...good info. The other driver was driving a vehicle registered to the county but late at night so not sure if it was during her working hours. Does her personal insurance coverage come into play?

"Adusterjack" can better address this, but I believe that both the county's (self-)insurance and the driver's personal auto coverage should provide coverage. That said, there are rules that will likely make the county coverage "primary" over the personal coverage. Also, if the driver was driving in the course and scope of employment, it's possible that his personal coverage won't apply.

 

[adjusterjack]

That said, there are rules that will likely make the county coverage "primary" over the personal coverage.

Exactly. The driver's personal insurance is excess.

Also, if the driver was driving in the course and scope of employment, it's possible that his personal coverage won't apply.

Also true.

 

[flyingron]

The procedure here isn't really that different than if they were commercially insured. You have the same two options either way.