Can voice mail EVER be used as proper notice for rent increase?

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insomniac125

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Hello All,

I will try to make this short and simple without leaving important details out.

We were on a 1yr lease that ended March 31, 2010. The owner/landlord of our TownHome decided that he did not want to sign a new lease at the time because he was trying to modify his mortgage and was having troubles doing so, because the house was now being used as an "income property". He thought that he may have to move back in or sell the house. So as per his request we agreed to remain in the house on a month to month lease. No biggie, other than we really had no desire to move and hoped for the best.

In the middle of May 2010, the landlord called and reluctantly told me that the TownHome had actually been entered in to foreclosure proceedings since January and was now scheduled for a Trustee's Sale on June 16, 2010, here in Salt Lake County. He told me that he was still trying to keep the house and is still trying to get the mortgage co. to modify his "interest only" loan. A few days later he left me a voice mail stating that his mortgage company had in fact pushed out the sale date by 60 days so they could attempt to modify his loan, but because he felt bad that we were now being put under this stress of "the unknown" he dropped our rent down. I obviously wasn't going to bypass cheaper rent, so I agreed, and from June 2010 - Present, we have been paying the cheaper rent under our month-month agreement.

On July 31, 2010 I wrote a letter that was included with the rent check stating that we would be out of town from Aug 2nd-Aug 12th. The letter also said the following: "Please let me know asap how things are going with the house loan. As far as I know, from what you said, the foreclosure was postponed 60 days from the original date of June 16, 2010. If the foreclosure gets cancelled, please let me know, in writing, by August 15th, 2010, so I have the legal 15 days notice to budget for the possible increase in rent." I was/am not naive to the fact that once he modified his loan, he would want to go back to the previous rent price, but I wanted to be notified.

On Aug 2nd(we are out of town at this point), he leaves a voice mail stating that he had in fact saved the house and needed the original rent amount for August. So it is now 2 days in to a new rental month and to top it off, there is no proper 15 day written notice given. I notice through online banking, that our rent check for the cheaper rent clears on Aug. 5th, so I know he has received the letter I wrote him. We get back home on Aug 12, heard his voice mail from Aug. 2nd. and of course I was upset, but I never called him back, because I thought well maybe he received my rent and letter after leaving the voice mail on Aug 2nd and realized that he did not give me proper notice for the increase in rent.

On Aug 14th he calls and leaves a voice mail stating that he doesn't know if I received his voice mail on the 2nd and that he saved the house and that he received my rent but needs to collect the original rent for this month and to call him back to arrange to do so. I still have not called him.

Today is Aug. 17th and now I still have not received any kind of proper written notice for the next month either. So legally I believe that I do not have to pay him the original rent for Sept. either. That is unless voice mails can be considered "proper notice" in the State Of Utah.

Am I right, and if so, how do I treat this properly? We don't want to move, but I also have legal rights.

Thanks,
insomniac125
 
The landlord kept you well informed during his crisis and even lowered your rent since he felt bad about the burden he had placed upon you.

In return for all this you intend to hold the letter of the law above his head just so to elude the rent increase for another month or two?

I can't answer your question, yet my advise is to simply pay your landlord and go forward living stress free.
 
FlaRiptide said:
The landlord kept you well informed during his crisis and even lowered your rent since he felt bad about the burden he had placed upon you.

In return for all this you intend to hold the letter of the law above his head just so to elude the rent increase for another month or two?

I can't answer your question, yet my advise is to simply pay your landlord and go forward living stress free.
Click to expand...

Ok, so let's put aside morals, because morally I agree with you. Although at this point I cannot afford to pay the extra amount for August even if I wanted to. I wasn't given time to budget for it and we live paycheck to paycheck. I am however budgeting for Sept rent at the original rent price. This doesn't change the fact that I do like to know my rights.

Our landlord has never provided anything in writing when he decides to change things, even when I request something in writing. So I am really looking for legal advice in regards to whether or not a voicemail can be considered proper notice.

insomniac125
 
I believe his ship has sailed on the increase for August. Technically the voice mail does not work, because he can not prove in court that you listened to it, should you deny it. Although I would call him and ask how things are going with the loan, he doesn't need to know you got the voice mail, and when he then tells you of the rent increase, agree to start paying that amount for September. Or, inform him that you heard the voice mail, and that since you didn't get proper notice, you will not pay the rent increase until September.
 
Ok, so certain things have transpired since the last post on this thread. I now have other concerns about this issue, but mostly they all come right back to the letter of the law in regards to whether or not a voice mail can ever be used as proper notice in a court of law.

If we have to break it down:

In theory, let's say that I did hear a voice mail that the landlord left in regards to wanting to raise the rent, but I never addressed it, or admitted hearing it. Does this show proper notice on the landlords part?

On the opposite side:

In theory, if I do not admit to hearing a voice mail that the landlord leaves in regards to wanting to raise the rent, however, lets say that he has left a message every day since Aug 18th, but this is still not the legal 15 days prior notice and is obviously not in writing. Can this be considered proper notice on the landlords part?

Thanks
 
insomniac125 said:
Ok, so certain things have transpired since the last post on this thread. I now have other concerns about this issue, but mostly they all come right back to the letter of the law in regards to whether or not a voice mail can ever be used as proper notice in a court of law.

If we have to break it down:

In theory, let's say that I did hear a voice mail that the landlord left in regards to wanting to raise the rent, but I never addressed it, or admitted hearing it. Does this show proper notice on the landlords part?

On the opposite side:

In theory, if I do not admit to hearing a voice mail that the landlord leaves in regards to wanting to raise the rent, however, lets say that he has left a message every day since Aug 18th, but this is still not the legal 15 days prior notice and is obviously not in writing. Can this be considered proper notice on the landlords part?

Thanks
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Okay, here's all you'll ever need to know about how a landlord must effect a rent increase in Utah.

If you are covered by rent control, check with the municipality in which you reside. Rent controlled properties have special requirements as to how a rent increase can be done.

State laws have varying requirements for how the landlord has to inform the tenant of a rent increase.

For example, the notice usually has to be in writing and might need to be dated and given personally to the tenant or sent by registered mail.

If the landlord doesn’t give the notice of a rent increase the correct way, the tenant usually doesn’t have to pay the increase, and the landlord has to do it over again.

The tenant should must continue to pay the old rent in a timely manner.

It’s a good idea to inform the landlord in writing at the time the rent increase was supposed to take effect that the rent increase was not done according to state or local law.

Keep a copy of the letter you send to the landlord, notifying him/her of their failed efforts.

You should also send your letter certified or registered US Mail, or via an overnight service with tracking capability.

Make sure you retain your mailing and return PROOF!

The landlord might bring an action for nonpayment of rent, and you will need the letter (and the return receipts) as part of your defense.







The tenant must be given notice of changes in rental terms such as rent increases. Fifteen days is proper notice in the case of a rent increase in a month to month tenancy.

If the tenancy is covered by a lease, the lease provides proper notice for a rent increase. A rent increase can not be effected during the term of an active lease.

http://www.utahlegalservices.org/public/self-help-webpages/utah-renters-handbook
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Can someone give me some advice on how to KINDLY inform the landlord that the rent increase was not done according to state law?

We do want to stay here, but based upon the landlord's previous behavior, we are worried that he may retaliate, so I am looking for a very nice way of letting him know of his failure to provide us with proper written notice of the rent increase.

Thanks
 
insomniac125 said:
Can someone give me some advice on how to KINDLY inform the landlord that the rent increase was not done according to state law?

We do want to stay here, but based upon the landlord's previous behavior, we are worried that he may retaliate, so I am looking for a very nice way of letting him know of his failure to provide us with proper written notice of the rent increase.

Thanks
Click to expand...

Inform me with a polite letter sent via certified mail, and also with a copy attached to your normal rent payment.
 
insomniac125 said:
Hello All,

I will try to make this short and simple without leaving important details out.

We were on a 1yr lease that ended March 31, 2010. The owner/landlord of our TownHome decided that he did not want to sign a new lease at the time because he was trying to modify his mortgage and was having troubles doing so, because the house was now being used as an "income property". He thought that he may have to move back in or sell the house. So as per his request we agreed to remain in the house on a month to month lease. No biggie, other than we really had no desire to move and hoped for the best.

In the middle of May 2010, the landlord called and reluctantly told me that the TownHome had actually been entered in to foreclosure proceedings since January and was now scheduled for a Trustee's Sale on June 16, 2010, here in Salt Lake County. He told me that he was still trying to keep the house and is still trying to get the mortgage co. to modify his "interest only" loan. A few days later he left me a voice mail stating that his mortgage company had in fact pushed out the sale date by 60 days so they could attempt to modify his loan, but because he felt bad that we were now being put under this stress of "the unknown" he dropped our rent down. I obviously wasn't going to bypass cheaper rent, so I agreed, and from June 2010 - Present, we have been paying the cheaper rent under our month-month agreement.

On July 31, 2010 I wrote a letter that was included with the rent check stating that we would be out of town from Aug 2nd-Aug 12th. The letter also said the following: "Please let me know asap how things are going with the house loan. As far as I know, from what you said, the foreclosure was postponed 60 days from the original date of June 16, 2010. If the foreclosure gets cancelled, please let me know, in writing, by August 15th, 2010, so I have the legal 15 days notice to budget for the possible increase in rent." I was/am not naive to the fact that once he modified his loan, he would want to go back to the previous rent price, but I wanted to be notified.

On Aug 2nd(we are out of town at this point), he leaves a voice mail stating that he had in fact saved the house and needed the original rent amount for August. So it is now 2 days in to a new rental month and to top it off, there is no proper 15 day written notice given. I notice through online banking, that our rent check for the cheaper rent clears on Aug. 5th, so I know he has received the letter I wrote him. We get back home on Aug 12, heard his voice mail from Aug. 2nd. and of course I was upset, but I never called him back, because I thought well maybe he received my rent and letter after leaving the voice mail on Aug 2nd and realized that he did not give me proper notice for the increase in rent.

On Aug 14th he calls and leaves a voice mail stating that he doesn't know if I received his voice mail on the 2nd and that he saved the house and that he received my rent but needs to collect the original rent for this month and to call him back to arrange to do so. I still have not called him.

Today is Aug. 17th and now I still have not received any kind of proper written notice for the next month either. So legally I believe that I do not have to pay him the original rent for Sept. either. That is unless voice mails can be considered "proper notice" in the State Of Utah.

Am I right, and if so, how do I treat this properly? We don't want to move, but I also have legal rights.

Thanks,
insomniac125
Click to expand...


Maybe to keep him happy and to avoid him to not renew your lease, you could make arrangments to pay the increased rent for august over the next few months with that months rent.
 
MorgansDaddy said:
Inform me with a polite letter sent via certified mail, and also with a copy attached to your normal rent payment.
Click to expand...

Sorry MorgansDaddy you lost me here.

I am looking for a nice/kind/polite way of stating in a letter that the landlord has failed to provide me with proper written notice of the rent increase. It has to be stated very carefully, so that he understands that it was his wrongdoing, but not to take it out on us.

insomniac125
 
Sorry, I meant "inform him" and thought you wanted to know how to inform him rather than the content of the letter.

Just inform him in the letter in the nicest way that you can, what the legal process, proper written notice, is and that you will need enough notice per your local laws before you pay the increase.

Honestly, he is likely to feel no matter how polite you word it, that you're just trying to avoid the increase. So it is pretty much a lose - lose type of thing.
 
I am the landlord attorney.... :)~

We go to court, because you have failed to pay full rent for the months June, July, Aug, Sept because you were having a hard time paying full rent (as per PAPER lease stated) I am seeking back rent payment, plus late fee's etc.. etc.. What letter did you send me? Did you sent in Certified Mail? If not, I didn't get it... You want to use the voice mail where I lowered your rent? What about his voice mail about raising the rent... Why all the games? If you are living paycheck by paycheck and had budgeted the higher rent before you should have kept the higher rent in the budget and put that money into a saving account for future things. The guy was being nice to you by lowering the rent during his struggles. You fully understand the " What if's " "I didn't get that" " I didn't say that" works both ways.

Good Luck
 
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