Consumer Law, Warranties Can a company require this for warranty review?

Marinegrunt

New Member
Jurisdiction
Illinois
I just have a question about a warranty with a product I purchased. It's not an expensive product but is still within the one year warranty. It's a dog tracking device called a Findster Duo. It stopped working so they walked me through troubleshooting steps. That didn't help so they sent an email saying that they will send me an address so I can mail it to them for them to take a look at it. In the meantime they will then send me a brand new one. Here's the kicker. If they decide that the broken one is not covered under warranty they charge me for the new one they sent. The thing is, if it's not covered under warranty then I don't want a new one. I'm not sure if the broken one got wet but our dog goes out in the rain sometimes. It's on her neck so I don't see it getting wet from a little rain but it's possible. If that's what caused it to fail I'd rather purchase a different brand that suits our needs better. I don't want to take a chance with the Findster if it fails from a few raindrops. Can a company force you to assume responsibility for a new one just to start the warranty process? Sure, maybe the old one will be covered under warranty and they won't charge me but it seems pretty sneaky. I have never heard of a company pulling something like that before.

Thank you for your help. I really appreciate it.
 
Yes, they can. You could offer to send the unit for evaluation without them sending a new one until the determination of cause is made.
 
Yes, they can. You could offer to send the unit for evaluation without them sending a new one until the determination of cause is made.

Thanks for the reply.

I actually asked them to do exactly what you recommended and they refused. Their reasoning was that it could take upwards of two months and they don't want me to be without it for that long. I told them I was fine without being able to use it for two months. I just don't get that one. Seems like horrible customer service and surprises me they're allowed to do it.
 
Thanks for the reply.

I actually asked them to do exactly what you recommended and they refused. Their reasoning was that it could take upwards of two months and they don't want me to be without it for that long. I told them I was fine without being able to use it for two months. I just don't get that one. Seems like horrible customer service and surprises me they're allowed to do it.
Read the terms of the warranty.
 
I didn't see any exact mention of them requiring you to accept delivery of a new unit and possibly have to buy it. It did say the limited warranty was governed under Portugese law though. I thought they were based out of San Francisco.
 
I read reviews before originally buying it. I was somewhat happy with how it performed for the 7 months or so we were able to use it. I had tried a real time gps tracker but it's cellular service was through Sprint which we have no coverage for. The Findster doesn't use cell service. It does have about a 10 second tracking lag though. Our dog normally sticks around so it's more of a just in case kind of thing. I just don't think I would purchase another one if a few raindrops is what actually caused it to fail. I doubt it did but would rather find a different type if it in fact was the cause. I would like to know but I feel I shouldn't have to be forced into buying another just for them to look it over and find out if they'll cover it. Seems pretty immoral to me. With a policy like that it wouldn't surprise me one bit if they automatically refuse to warranty it and just bill your credit card for the one they sent. Maybe sales are down and it's their way of trying to hit their numbers?

Here's the last reply I just received after I explained that I'd rather not receive a new one if it's not covered under warranty since it means it doesn't work well for our needs.

We create a cross-replacement in our database, the email with the return instructions is sent automatically, a new order is placed automatically and a new entry waiting for the returned order is also created. If we wait for your current equipment to arrive, all this process will be compromised and done manually by me, which is almost impossible since we have plenty of tickets to solve (new interests on Findster, problems with Findster, shipping, partnerships, affiliates, etc.). It is just impossible to make workarounds with the system. If you want a replacement, everything must be done at the same time: you must ship back what you have, and we must ship to you a brand new Findster kit.

So, I'd like you to tell me if you agree with the conditions I sent you or not, just a "yes" or "no". After the Guardian arrives, we'll analyze it and, if water is the problem, you must assume the mentioned amount.

I'll be waiting for your clear reply
.


I only replied to her original email once explaining that I don't completely agree with the process and would rather first see what caused the failure because I'm not sure if I want to purchase a new one if it doesn't work for how we use it. If some rain caused failure I'm fine with that and accept fault. I just don't want to purchase a new one if that's what caused it.

As a business owner myself it blows my mind that they would require something like this.
 
The devices web site seems to indicate that it is "waterproof". Why would it matter for the warranty if water damage was the problem, considering that water intrusion should be covered under the warranty for a "waterproof" item.
 
Thank you for mentioning that it says it's waterproof.

You're completely right. I just found this out myself because of you bringing it to my attention. Thank you for that. (Keep reading though.) I didn't even notice that the main page of their website says it's waterproof and was just going by what she told me after I sent her an email about it not working. Here's the email where she said the "help center" says it's not waterproof. (it also says it is waterproof)

"Hi Brian,

I'd like you us to proceed like this:

  1. We'll replace your whole Findster kit - you must return everything you have. You'll receive a message in the email you've used to place your order within the next few minutes, containing the instructions for this process (it usually takes up to 3 business days).
  2. In the meantime, we'll ship a brand new Findster kit to you.
  3. After your Findster kit arrives, we'll analyze it and, in case the Guardian is faulty due to water infiltration, we'll need you to assume the cost of $79,99. As mentioned in our Help Center, the Guardian is not waterproof. So, if it's faulty due to that, you must assume the cost of a new Guardian. On the other hand, if we find out any other reason beside water infiltration, this whole process will be for free.

Please let me know if you agree with these conditions."



So I just looked at the "help center" that she was talking about. Take a look at this.


"Findster Duo+'s Pet modules are waterproof!

Our Pet modules are certified with IP67 rating, which means they're fully protected from dust and can also withstand water contact, including being submerged in up to 3 feet (about 1 meter) depth of static water for up to 30 mins at a time.

Please note that the Guardian module is not waterproof."


Does that last line cover them even though it's mentioned numerous times that it's waterproof except for one brief sentence that's buried in the faq's?


 
These days I find it easier (and often cheaper) to throw the inoperable THING away and buy a NEW one from a competitor.

That is my modus operandi, and it may NOT work for others.

Frankly, I prefer the path of least resistance and annoyance, that sometimes costs me additional money to achieve.

Good luck, mate.
 
Thank you for mentioning that it says it's waterproof.

You're completely right. I just found this out myself because of you bringing it to my attention. Thank you for that. (Keep reading though.) I didn't even notice that the main page of their website says it's waterproof and was just going by what she told me after I sent her an email about it not working. Here's the email where she said the "help center" says it's not waterproof. (it also says it is waterproof)

"Hi Brian,

I'd like you us to proceed like this:

  1. We'll replace your whole Findster kit - you must return everything you have. You'll receive a message in the email you've used to place your order within the next few minutes, containing the instructions for this process (it usually takes up to 3 business days).
  2. In the meantime, we'll ship a brand new Findster kit to you.
  3. After your Findster kit arrives, we'll analyze it and, in case the Guardian is faulty due to water infiltration, we'll need you to assume the cost of $79,99. As mentioned in our Help Center, the Guardian is not waterproof. So, if it's faulty due to that, you must assume the cost of a new Guardian. On the other hand, if we find out any other reason beside water infiltration, this whole process will be for free.

Please let me know if you agree with these conditions."



So I just looked at the "help center" that she was talking about. Take a look at this.


"Findster Duo+'s Pet modules are waterproof!

Our Pet modules are certified with IP67 rating, which means they're fully protected from dust and can also withstand water contact, including being submerged in up to 3 feet (about 1 meter) depth of static water for up to 30 mins at a time.

Please note that the Guardian module is not waterproof."


Does that last line cover them even though it's mentioned numerous times that it's waterproof except for one brief sentence that's buried in the faq's?
It is "waterproof" per IP67
 
Actually, yes, it does cover them. It is waterproof per IP67 standard. That doesn't mean you could take your dog scuba diving and expect it (the item or the dog) to survive.
 
These days I find it easier (and often cheaper) to throw the inoperable THING away and buy a NEW one from a competitor.

That is my modus operandi, and it may NOT work for others.

Frankly, I prefer the path of least resistance and annoyance, that sometimes costs me additional money to achieve.

Good luck, mate.

That is exactly what I do 99.9% of the time. This one just kind of bugged me because they basically try and keep you from wanting to do a warranty claim by holding it over your head that your credit card may be charged for another. To top it off they claim Findster is waterproof on the first page of their website. Then buried deep in the help pages after saying it's IP67 waterproof they then say the "guardian" is not waterproof. The guardian is what is clipped on the owner's body.

I think I was more curious if I company could force you to possibly purchase another one just to have them review the broken product for warranty.

I'm going to include this one in my 99.9% of the time because I definitely have better things to do.
 
The problem is the colloquial use of a word "waterproof". In normal day-to-day usage, the word "waterproof" means that water won't get inside of it. In technical usage, there are specifications for "waterproof" that detail how long and under what conditions water penetration is prevented. So the company is actually correct in saying that the item is both waterproof and not waterproof...they are trying to give full disclosure (albeit, hidden in the "fine print").
 
You should tell them that you will send the item to them. If it isn't covered under warranty you should be notified and then you will decide if you want to purchase a replacement.
 
You should tell them that you will send the item to them. If it isn't covered under warranty you should be notified and then you will decide if you want to purchase a replacement.
He's offered that and the company refused - it's apparently too confusing for them.
 
He's offered that and the company refused - it's apparently too confusing for them.

Missed that. My other suggestion would be to send the item, give them the credit card and then immediately contact my bank and get a new card number.

Or as already suggested, go buy from another provider.

I've gotten spoiled with the card I use being able to provide one-time use numbers for stuff like this.
 
Missed that. My other suggestion would be to send the item, give them the credit card and then immediately contact my bank and get a new card number.
Further to that...the OP should avoid even opening the package that comes from the vendor with the new item until they've made their determination. That way the OP can send the new one back instead of them requiring payment. The OP has said that it's possibly not defect that's covered by the warranty.
 
I questioned them on advertising as waterproof since it states in on the first page of the website. She emailed me back and said I'm being extremely unfair because it clearly states that it is not. It's horrible companies do this.

That is a good idea about not opening the box. After reading a review I think the main office is based in San Fran but the product ships from Portugal. Someone mentioned it's like $50 shipping fee.It's almost like they have all of their ducks in a row on order to get out of warranty claims. Maybe I'm being unreasonable but I don't feel like I am.

You guys helped tremendously in answering the legalities of everything. I mainly came here because I was just curious about it. I love knowledge, even if I'll never use it, so I appreciate it. I think I'm done trying to deal with them because it's just frustrating when they won't try and at least work with the customer when there's such an easy way to take care of it. All they have to do is not send another device because I don't mind waiting two months for warranty review without having another device to use. If mine failed from something not covered under warranty I can care less if they keep it and sell it as a refurbished product. I just think it's wrong to force someone to purchase another one especially if I don't feel it works for how we use it.

Anyways, thanks again. I greatly appreciate your time, help, and advice.
 
That's what I was trying to explain. It *is*, technically, waterproof (per the listed spec). It's *not* waterproof in the way that one might use the word in day-to-day usage.
 
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