Camper Van - Loss of Use Claim

[meBucco]

Jurisdiction

California

I recently got T-Boned in my 2020 MB Camper van on May 1st - fella ran a red light right into the passenger door. Van has been sitting at the body shop while parts are on order from the factory in Germany and no indication when parts will arrive. I declined getting a rental car from my insurance company (Geico) because I really don't need another car. What I need is my CAMPER van, not just for trips, but it is (was!) my daily place to chill up at my ranch, with a stove, sink, bed, all my tools, and everything else this old man needs for SANITY (hence, my 'SANITY van!) I cannot express what an inconvenience this whole thing is (I had just returned from YOSEMITE and can't wait to get back). Seems I have a claim for equal value loss of use - Geico won't help me, perhaps RV insurance would have given me equal value loss of use coverage? At any rate, at this juncture do I have a legitimate claim against the other party, and if so, for how much? I see camper vans of equal amenities renting for upwards of $300 per day.

 

[zddoodah]

Seems I have a claim for equal value loss of use

You have a claim against the other driver (or against your own collision coverage) for the lesser of the van's fair market value at the time of the accident or the cost of repairs. You also have a claim for a rental car while you wait for your vehicle to be repaired.

Geico won't help me

Your own insurer is obligated to provide a rental car in accordance with the terms of the policy (if you have rental car coverage, which isn't entirely clear from your post).

At any rate, at this juncture do I have a legitimate claim against the other party, and if so, for how much? I see camper vans of equal amenities renting for upwards of $300 per day.

When you called the other driver's insurance adjuster and told him/her that you want to be provided with a comparable rental vehicle, what did he/she say in response?

 

[meBucco]

You have a claim against the other driver (or against your own collision coverage) for the lesser of the van's fair market value at the time of the accident or the cost of repairs. You also have a claim for a rental car while you wait for your vehicle to be repaired.



Your own insurer is obligated to provide a rental car in accordance with the terms of the policy (if you have rental car coverage, which isn't entirely clear from your post).



When you called the other driver's insurance adjuster and told him/her that you want to be provided with a comparable rental vehicle, what did he/she say in response?

Haven't talked to other party's insurance, just mine.

 

[zddoodah]

Haven't talked to other party's insurance, just mine.

I suggest you do it. If you don't have rental car coverage, then your insurer owes you nothing with respect to any rental vehicle. If you only have standard rental car coverage, then you're only entitled to a standard passenger vehicle. Standard rental car coverage is $30-45 per day for 30 days (since insurers have deals with rental car companies, standard coverage is typically more than sufficient for a standard passenger car). The only way your insurer would have any obligation to provide a specialized vehicle such as you're seeking would be if you have specialized, non-standard coverage.

There is a retired insurance adjuster who comments here regularly and will presumably provide his thoughts on how the other driver's insurer will respond to a request for a camper van.

 

[meBucco]

I suggest you do it. If you don't have rental car coverage, then your insurer owes you nothing with respect to any rental vehicle. If you only have standard rental car coverage, then you're only entitled to a standard passenger vehicle. Standard rental car coverage is $30-45 per day for 30 days (since insurers have deals with rental car companies, standard coverage is typically more than sufficient for a standard passenger car). The only way your insurer would have any obligation to provide a specialized vehicle such as you're seeking would be if you have specialized, non-standard coverage.

There is a retired insurance adjuster who comments here regularly and will presumably provide his thoughts on how the other driver's insurer will respond to a request for a camper van.

I already stated that I declined getting a rental car from my insurance company (Geico) because I really don't need another car. What I need is my CAMPER van. I don't fault my insurance company, but I feel this is a legitimate loss of use claim. Am wondering what people in an RV do… do they settle with a basic rental car? Regardless of whether I had that coverage or not, I ought to have a legitimate claim from the other party

 

[adjusterjack]

There is a retired insurance adjuster who comments here regularly

Here I am.

do I have a legitimate claim against the other party, and if so, for how much? I see camper vans of equal amenities renting for upwards of $300 per day.

CA allows for you to rent a "similar" vehicle while yours is being repaired. Here's the CA jury instructions for loss of use and the case decisions that support it.

CACI No. 3903M. Loss of Use of Personal Property (Economic Damage) :: California Civil Jury Instructions (CACI) (2023) :: Justia

OTOH CA also imposes a duty on you to mitigate your damages. Here's the CA jury instructions on mitigation and the case decisions that support it.

CACI No. 3903M. Loss of Use of Personal Property (Economic Damage) :: California Civil Jury Instructions (CACI) (2023) :: Justia

I can't predict what the at-fault driver's insurance adjuster will say about a $300 per day camper van. All you can do is ask.

If the adjuster says no, then your choice is to rent a car to get you back and forth or hire a lawyer at $300 to $400 per hour to litigate. You could easily run up many thousands in lawyer fees and you don't get those fees back.

 

[army judge]

I can't predict what the at-fault driver's insurance adjuster will say about a $300 per day camper van. All you can do is ask.

 

[meBucco]

Here I am.



CA allows for you to rent a "similar" vehicle while yours is being repaired. Here's the CA jury instructions for loss of use and the case decisions that support it.



CACI No. 3903M. Loss of Use of Personal Property (Economic Damage) :: California Civil Jury Instructions (CACI) (2023) :: Justia

OTOH CA also imposes a duty on you to mitigate your damages. Here's the CA jury instructions on mitigation and the case decisions that support it.

CACI No. 3903M. Loss of Use of Personal Property (Economic Damage) :: California Civil Jury Instructions (CACI) (2023) :: Justia

I can't predict what the at-fault driver's insurance adjuster will say about a $300 per day camper van. All you can do is ask.

If the adjuster says no, then your choice is to rent a car to get you back and forth or hire a lawyer at $300 to $400 per hour to litigate. You could easily run up many thousands in lawyer fees and you don't get those fees back.

very helpful info & links, thanks much.but I hate being at the whim of an adjuster- either I am on firm ground or I'm not. I wrote this letter to send to the other party & agent (State Farm)…. what do you think?

Greetings,

I am writing in regard to the accident that occurred on May 1 2023 when XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX ran a red light into my 2020 Mercedes Sprinter camper van. At present it is still at the body shop, and there is no indication when the parts, ordered from the factory in Germany, will arrive. I am of course able to get car rental reimbursement through my company, Geico, but my insurance does not pay for loss of use for a camper van. To recover this loss I must pursue this on my own, and it appears that California law allows me to rent a "similar" vehicle while mine is being repaired {CACI No.3903M, page 847}.


It has been a major inconvenience for me, not just in trips, but in my daily activities. My lawyer suggested that I reach out to you initially without his involvement and additional fees. Hopefully this can be settled without engaging his help.


The average daily rental for a camper van with equal amenities that I have in mine is $250 per day ($200 low, $300++ high, (based upon vans available through www.outdoorsy.com) which for 30 days in the month May comes to $7,500. If you wish to verify the status of the van, it is at XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Body Shop.


I also have my deductible of $500, hopefully will be reimbursed to me when this claim is subrogated through Geico or you can pay it to me directly.


Respectfully,

 

[meBucco]

very helpful info & links, thanks much.but I hate being at the whim of an adjuster- either I am on firm ground or I'm not. I wrote this letter to send to the other party & agent (State Farm)…. what do you think?

Greetings,

I am writing in regard to the accident that occurred on May 1 2023 when XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX ran a red light into my 2020 Mercedes Sprinter camper van. At present it is still at the body shop, and there is no indication when the parts, ordered from the factory in Germany, will arrive. I am of course able to get car rental reimbursement through my company, Geico, but my insurance does not pay for loss of use for a camper van. To recover this loss I must pursue this on my own, and it appears that California law allows me to rent a "similar" vehicle while mine is being repaired {CACI No.3903M, page 847}.


It has been a major inconvenience for me, not just in trips, but in my daily activities. My lawyer suggested that I reach out to you initially without his involvement and additional fees. Hopefully this can be settled without engaging his help.


The average daily rental for a camper van with equal amenities that I have in mine is $250 per day ($200 low, $300++ high, (based upon vans available through www.outdoorsy.com) which for 30 days in the month May comes to $7,500. If you wish to verify the status of the van, it is at XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Body Shop.


I also have my deductible of $500, hopefully will be reimbursed to me when this claim is subrogated through Geico or you can pay it to me directly.


Respectfully,


Thanks, very helpful info & links. Here is a letter I have written to plead my cause. At this point I don't actually have a lawyer but I did also consult with a local attorney's office and they suggested I write a letter. What do you think?

Greetings,

I am writing in regard to the accident that occurred on May 1 2023 when XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX ran a red light into my 2020 Mercedes Sprinter camper van. At present it is still at the body shop, and there is no indication when the parts, ordered from the factory in Germany, will arrive. I am of course able to get car rental reimbursement through my company, Geico, but my insurance does not pay for loss of use for a camper van. To recover this loss I must pursue this on my own, and it appears that California law allows me to rent a "similar" vehicle while mine is being repaired {CACI No.3903M, page 847}.


It has been a major inconvenience for me, not just in trips, but in my daily activities. My lawyer suggested that I reach out to you initially without his involvement and additional fees. Hopefully this can be settled without engaging his help.


The average daily rental for a camper van with equal amenities that I have in mine is $250 per day ($200 low, $300++ high, (based upon vans available through www.outdoorsy.com) which for 30 days in the month May comes to $7,500. If you wish to verify the status of the van, it is at XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Body Shop.


I also have my deductible of $500, hopefully will be reimbursed to me when this claim is subrogated through Geico or you can pay it to me directly.


Respectfully,

Oops….. posted twice, don't know how to delete

 

[Tax Counsel]

Oops….. posted twice, don't know how to delete

Your duplicate is in the same post. So choose "edit" at the bottom of the post and delete the second copy. If that edit option is not there then first time posters don't have the ability to modify their posts.

 

[zddoodah]

I already stated that I declined getting a rental car from my insurance company

I'm aware. No need to repeat things you already wrote. However, I'll repeat what I wrote because it doesn't seem to have registered the first time. You writing that you "declined getting a rental car from [your] insurance company" doesn't tell me what sorts of coverage you have. I have now explained what you're entitled to from your own insurer, so we can leave that topic.

What I need is my CAMPER van.

Considering that you apparently own a "ranch," I doubt very much that you NEED a camper. It sounds much more like what you WANT.

As far as what you're entitled to from the other driver's insurer, the first step is to ask for what you want. If you don't get it, your recourse (assuming you don't want to forego it) will be to sue. The jury instruction previously provided, while helpful, is ultimately inconclusive. Maybe there's case law that's on point with your situation. I don't know. I'm not going to research case law. If you actually got in front of a jury, you'd have to convince them that you truly needed a camper, and a lot will depend on what county you're in. I suspect jurors in more rural counties might be more receptive to that sort of thing, while I seriously doubt any southern California jury would give it to you. And, as "adjusterjack" correctly noted, getting to that point will cost you a LOT of attorneys' fees that you won't be able to recover.

 

[meBucco]

I'm aware. No need to repeat things you already wrote. However, I'll repeat what I wrote because it doesn't seem to have registered the first time. You writing that you "declined getting a rental car from [your] insurance company" doesn't tell me what sorts of coverage you have. I have now explained what you're entitled to from your own insurer, so we can leave that topic.



Considering that you apparently own a "ranch," I doubt very much that you NEED a camper. It sounds much more like what you WANT.

As far as what you're entitled to from the other driver's insurer, the first step is to ask for what you want. If you don't get it, your recourse (assuming you don't want to forego it) will be to sue. The jury instruction previously provided, while helpful, is ultimately inconclusive. Maybe there's case law that's on point with your situation. I don't know. I'm not going to research case law. If you actually got in front of a jury, you'd have to convince them that you truly needed a camper, and a lot will depend on what county you're in. I suspect jurors in more rural counties might be more receptive to that sort of thing, while I seriously doubt any southern California jury would give it to you. And, as "adjusterjack" correctly noted, getting to that point will cost you a LOT of attorneys' fees that you won't be able to recover.

"And having food and raiment let us be therewith content."

Sure I can get by with less - but what happened to quality of life? Yes, I can age just as easily (maybe even quicker) sitting on my rear end or I can have the quality of life I had before the accident, I thought insurance & laws protected that. My car rental limit is $1,050 any way I slice it. I suppose I can rent a $500,000 Monaco motorhome for a day or two. But what is fair is for me to have a similar vehicle or the compensation for it until I get my own van back. And I'm not referring to what my insurance is or was. It's what the person who plowed into me should be responsible for.

 

[adjusterjack]

Oops….. posted twice, don't know how to delete

Fixed it for you.

Couple of comments on your letter.

1 - Sending it to the other party and the agent is a waste of time. The other party isn't involved in the claim and neither is the agent. Address your correspondence and demands to the adjusters.

2 - Never threaten or imply lawyer or litigation unless you are prepared to follow through. Adjusters get threatened with litigation every day and the threats roll off like water off a duck's back. We know you are bluffing or it would be your lawyer who is talking to us.

I think you make good points in your letter. I would take out the sentence about the lawyer and you can also leave off the last paragraph about your deductible. When State Farm pays for the repairs there will be no deductible.

If your elect to have your own company pay for the repairs, you'll pay your deductible and your company will get it back as a matter of routine during subrogation.

Sure I can get by with less - but what happened to quality of life? Yes, I can age just as easily (maybe even quicker) sitting on my rear end or I can have the quality of life I had before the accident, I thought insurance & laws protected that. My car rental limit is $1,050 any way I slice it. I suppose I can rent a $500,000 Monaco motorhome for a day or two. But what is fair is for me to have a similar vehicle or the compensation for it until I get my own van back. And I'm not referring to what my insurance is or was. It's what the person who plowed into me should be responsible for.

Unfortunately, that's Utopia, not reality. Nobody's ever happy with the outcome of an insurance claim and the concept of "made whole" is a myth. If you wrecked your van and nobody else was at fault, you'd figure out a way to live without it during the time it gets repaired.

 

[zddoodah]

I thought insurance & laws protected that. . . . what is fair is for me to have a similar vehicle or the compensation for it until I get my own van back. And I'm not referring to what my insurance is or was. It's what the person who plowed into me should be responsible for.

OK. So talk to the other drive's insurer and ask for that. If you get it, great. If not, then you get to choose between the following:

1. Deal with it.
2. Rent a comparable vehicle and sue the other driver to recover the cost. Just keep in mind that the American rule will not allow you to recover any attorneys' fees incurred in doing so.