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ATM fraud -- need info re police investigation

Discussion in 'Banking, Finance, Investments' started by CindiW, Jun 12, 2022.

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  1. CindiW

    CindiW Law Topic Starter Member

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    We recently had over $1200.00 stolen from our account via an ATM machine. I reported it to the bank as soon as I realized it, a day later after the incident. The bank denied my request for repayment since they evidently say someone had the pin number. (What??? we didn't realize the card was lost or stolen.) It was reported to the bank the day after the withdrawal. A phone rep who seems to know his stuff (but you can't get back to the same rep when you call again and they only give their first names) said that the person could have simply called the back of the card to get a pin. But I won't go into detail now about the card.
    Here's my question -- (finally) -- I reported it to the police, they are investigating it because the bank knows the terminal and the time the money was withdrawn. The police know where that terminal is. The last officer who spoke to me wanted to know if I want to file charges against the robber, even though he hasn't gone to the store to see if they have footage. I am not sure what the procedure is if I file charges, they haven't even found who the criminal is because they haven't been to the ATM store machine yet. I tried asking the officer if I could see who he would be looking at if in fact they think they got the person, but he said he didn't think I could see the footage. So what goes here? What happens if I file charges against the perpetrator? NO WONDER PEOPLE ARE AFRAID TO FILE CHARGES IN THESE CRIME SHOWS I SEE SOMETIMES. Live and learn unfortunately. How would I file charges if I don't know who they're filing the charge against??? The officer didn't answer me. What times we're living in...So what is the procedure by police since the officer asked me if I want to file charges?

    The bank I'm dealing with gives me the wrong answers or different answers and I'm thinking to have a second party with me when I speak to the bank rep so there is a witness to a conversation. But at this point I'm wondering even if that would help to establish what I was told by customer service rep. Now I'm beginning to understand more about how things are conducted in a trial because it's "he said, she said," and maybe not the right information since (1) people lie, and (2) the court and participants don't have the vital information needed. My in-law was an attorney for my family and was a drinker and failed to show up to court for a case involving my family. Guess he was too tired.
    I'd also like to have the customer service write down what they told me, but I doubt that will happen. PLUS -- I am reviewing a document from the bank about a beneficiary we included, but I don't understand the codes and explanations. I hope the bank can tell me what the codes are. And sign a statement that is what the codes are. But I doubt they will do that. Just have to take the run-around, I guess. Right?
     
  2. justblue

    justblue Well-Known Member

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    What state?


    Your state is required information when posting here.
     
  3. retic

    retic Member

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    You don't file charges, the prosecutor does.

    It's speculation on my part but the cops may want to know if you're willing to go forward with prosecuting the perp if they take the time to investigate. There have been cases where someone known to the card holder, such a parent, child, or sibling, swiped the card and made the unauthorized withdrawal. Upon learning the identity of the thief, the card holder doesn't want the thief arrested and prosecuted.
     
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  4. adjusterjack

    adjusterjack Super Moderator

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    American bureaucracy (corporate and government) has anonymous and unaccountable customer service down to a science.

    The procedure is you say to the officer "Yes, I want the thief prosecuted." That's all you need to do and the authorities will take it from there if they catch the thief.

    You'll find out who it is when they catch him or her.

    Florida, per IP address.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2022
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  5. Michael Wechsler

    Michael Wechsler Administrator Staff Member

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    Very sorry to hear about your problem and hope things work out for you. However, getting a PIN reset by a bank is nowhere near as simple as just calling a phone number on the back of a debit or credit card. They must have a series of KYC (know your customer) processes and procedures before just resetting the pin for the benefit of the fraudster who might have your card or your PIN number. Whatever the case may be, @adjusterjack appears to set things straight about filing a police report and confirming that you want to press charges against those responsible. I hope you get your money back in some fashion. Good luck.
     
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  6. CindiW

    CindiW Law Topic Starter Member

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    Yes, sorry, it is Florida.
     
  7. CindiW

    CindiW Law Topic Starter Member

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    The very interesting part of this is that I just spoke to a bank representative. We discussed the pin. The rep said the card was never used from the day it was opened over 4 months ago until the fraudulent transaction which was the first week of June. She then told me the pin can be made at the ATM machine. But now I will call the 24-hour service and ask again. Because the card was never used until that transaction. It was not the originating bank's ATM machine, but another bank. I am going to check again because according to what I just heard from the representative on the phone, the card can be given a pin number when used for the first time at an ATM. I am going to check. So many questions...and yet ... denied as fraud by the ATM bank's affiliation, which declared to my bank it was not fraud. (amazing...) This is teaching me big lessons.
     
  8. CindiW

    CindiW Law Topic Starter Member

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    I had somewhat of that conversation with the officer wanting to press charges if they found the perp. And because I am afraid of repercussions, like the perp coming back and hurting us, I am somewhat reluctant. But that means, of course, I may lose the money. But now I spoke again to the bank 24-hour service, and was told that the ATM asked for last 4 digits of the social and whoever did it put in the right numbers. Maybe. Although the bank didn't tell me what numbers were used, I have to assume they were the right numbers. Now that they have the right numbers, I wonder what else will be hacked.
     
  9. CindiW

    CindiW Law Topic Starter Member

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    So now the question: if I tell the police yes, they can prosecute, how does this go? I already asked the officer if I can see the pictures with him. One officer joked about masks these days. Nevertheless, how does this go? I have the exact time the withdrawals took place at the terminal. The bank (finally) told me upon my zillionth question to them that the ATM asks for information to identify the customer, and the last 4 digits of the social security number were given. So evidently the perp knew the S.S. numbers. And further attempts were made to purchase things by Square through the bank, but the bank said they don't know which business that is until the payment goes through. (Can't figure. And yes, I realize the science of subterfuge is an art with some. Sad times we're living in.)
     
  10. CindiW

    CindiW Law Topic Starter Member

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    So now, people, I have another question. If somehow the perp got hold of my husband's social security number, what happens now? We can't change that, can we?
     
  11. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

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    No, a person's SS number can't be changed.

    However, SS will work with a victim.

    Read what SS says about identity theft on their website:


    Social Security: Fraud Prevention and Reporting | SSA
    ...


    https://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10064.pdf
    ...


    What should I do if I think someone is using my Social Security number? · Customer Self-Service
    ...



    Additional info:

    Everyone’s Social Security Number Has Been Compromised. Here’s How To Protect Yourself.
    ...


    7 Things To Do if Your Social Security Number Is Compromised
    ...


    3 Steps to Take If Your Social Security Number Is Stolen | Experian
    ...

    You've got work to do
    ...



    ...
     
  12. CindiW

    CindiW Law Topic Starter Member

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    I've been up many "extra" hours. So I guess there's more. Thank you, though, for the info.
     
  13. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

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    As a certain character (Roseanne Roseannadanna) on SNL was fond of saying, "It just goes to show ya. It's always something. If it's not one thing, it's another."


    .....
     
  14. CindiW

    CindiW Law Topic Starter Member

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    Especially now. It's hard to believe that the bank doesn't believe me. They're saying that it's not fraud -- that someone knew the questions the atm asked. Anyway, I'll see what the detective says, but now I'm finding that it may be that the store and/or atm does not have security cameras. Does that sound reasonable to you? It's a big popular gas station store, and a big bank outfit associated with the atm machine. Something ain't right here. Maybe they don't want surveillance cameras so they don't have to get involved? (something ain't right here...) As Roseannadanna would say and I paraphrase -- "It's just not a good deal this little life we have to live..."
     
  15. adjusterjack

    adjusterjack Super Moderator

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    A surveillance camera is a choice, not an obligation.

    And it's not the bank's fault that a criminal, with all the right answers, took your money.

    You admit that the card was "lost or stolen" and you didn't realize until after the theft.

    Also that the thief knew the last 4 digits of your husband's SS number.

    As far as the bank can see, it was the legitimate card holder that got the money.

    I suspect that the thief is either a member of your family or somebody who knows you quite well and has been to your home often.
     
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  16. CindiW

    CindiW Law Topic Starter Member

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    I spoke to the attending police officer today. She intimated, believe it or not, that the convenience store and/or ATM associated with that one, does not have surveillance cameras. It's hard for me to understand. Maybe I didn't hear it properly.
    The question now is, and so far I'm not getting any answers from the bank, what information did they ask on the ATM, since it was absolutely the first time that card was used? No answers except generic ones such as: they ask questions on the ATM about best friend (they do?) or social security. But the bank did not give me the real answer as to what questions they ask. it wasn't even the ATM from the bank that has the checking account. It was another bank's ATM which is also why we were charged use of the ATM. The whole thing is astounding and sad. That and so many votes from dead people. <joke>
     
  17. CindiW

    CindiW Law Topic Starter Member

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    It is possible that someone who found information in the home took it. I don't know. There may not be camera videos of people who enter the store. I ridiculously thought that most larger businesses like gas stations would have cameras going for themselves at least. But obviously I can be wrong.
    I don't know that the thief knew the last 4 digits, the bank did not say for certain. They only said maybe that was the question. As far as the police will see, for certain, my husband is not capable physically of doing that because he can hardly walk. He drives, but very slowly. The thefts took place within 10 minutes of each other at two ATMs several blocks away from each other. He simply could not have done it. There is no way my husband did it, and without photographic evidence, it's not worth the money I don't think, to hire a lawyer. Against who? The bank? Naw, lawyer's fees would be more than $1200 to take this case.
    But let me tell you something -- the "circumstantial" evidence makes me realize more than ever why I will NEVER be on a jury. Obviously circumstantial evidence can lead to the wrong conclusion.
    I worked for lawyers. Guess what? They can lie. They can misrepresent. They can evade details. Secretaries can lie. Customer service reps can lie because they make up answers sometimes. Or don't know what they're talking about.
    Juries can believe an emotionally puffed up lawyer and convict on circumstantial evidence. So given all the "evidence" that we have no record of thievery, we were hard working people, the bank still thinks maybe my husband did it. It's ridiculous. Yes, I will write a certified letter to the bank, not that will sway them to believe us, but yes I will lay out the situation. He LOST THE CARD. I don't know how the card was activated. He doesn't know when or how it was lost. We do not know who might have taken the private info. We don't know what private info was given on the ATM, but all of that is "OK" as far as the bank is concerned.
    The bank called the next day wanting to know if the withdrawals were legitimate but I thought the phone call was a scam so we did not respond. I went home and checked the online banking and saw that money was taken out. I will mention hopefully next call to the bank about the phone call, I was told once it was an automated call. But no one really tells me details. I have to keep asking, keep asking. I don't know what was written on the report that was first submitted to the Fraud department. WHY??? won't they tell me?
    So now what's stopping thieves with personal info to take all the money out?
     
  18. CindiW

    CindiW Law Topic Starter Member

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    P.S. My last post is making me think about getting home surveillance cameras. I'll check it out.
     
  19. adjusterjack

    adjusterjack Super Moderator

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    I hope that, by now, you have cancelled the card and have closed any other accounts with that bank.
     
  20. Red Kayak

    Red Kayak Well-Known Member

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    Is your concern that you don't know the process?

    Or is your concern that the criminal is someone you don't want to cause trouble for - like a grandchild or caretaker?
     
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