1. Free Legal Help, Legal Forms and Lawyers. TheLaw.com has been providing free legal assistance online since 1995. Our most popular destinations for legal help are below. It only takes a minute to join our legal community!

    Dismiss Notice

ATM fraud -- need info re police investigation

Discussion in 'Banking, Finance, Investments' started by CindiW, Jun 12, 2022.

Tags:
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. CindiW

    CindiW Law Topic Starter Member

    Messages:
    101
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Yes, ok, thank you. We cancelled the cards associated with the account. The bank replaced the stolen funds "provisionally" today. Evidently the fraud department said that based on our history and the fact that the funds were "aggressively taken," the bank replaced the funds. The investigating officer is going to check whether the ATM's have photo capacity.
     
  2. CindiW

    CindiW Law Topic Starter Member

    Messages:
    101
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    First question, yes I would like to know the process. But I can see that getting details can be hand-wringingly difficult. But along with that, I must tell you that the investigator told me today that the ATM used for withdrawal was not belonging to the bank that it was reported to belong to. Let's say my bank is Bank A. The ATM used was reported on my statement to belong to Bank B. But Bank B told the investigator that it wasn't their machine and directed the investigator to Bank C, even though Bank A (my bank) said that it belonged to Bank B. .Bank C told the investigator that it belonged to Bank B. So she is going to do further investigation because it doesn't make sense. What does this teach me? People make mistakes, and those "in charge," so to speak, may not know what they're talking about.
    The only reason I would be reluctant to press charges would be that my wellbeing (in other words, my life) would be in danger. So I like the investigating officer, and see how it goes.
     
  3. CindiW

    CindiW Law Topic Starter Member

    Messages:
    101
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Meantime, I would point to your attention again that the bank, according to the investigator from the police dept., did not even have the correct atm owner. Which leads me to my next question, who should I believe about answers? Well, at least the bank made another decision to replace the money (provisionally, until the case is closed), since they determined it was an "aggressive" use of the ATM, and not consistent with our pattern. Since it was issued in February and not used until June I guess they figured something happened. But the funny (or sad) part is, I've asked what pin the perpetrator put in, the bank told me more than once, "We don't know...it's encrypted." So they don't know, I don't know, someone knows somewhere I guess. The whole thing is very confusing. So I won't bore you with more details. So now I am going to look into home surveillance cameras, I doubt I can figure this out by myself, but I have to find a store I guess that will help me figure that out. Thanks.
     
  4. adjusterjack

    adjusterjack Super Moderator

    Messages:
    10,808
    Likes Received:
    4,058
    Trophy Points:
    113

    That's good news.

    Thank you for that. :D (Just kidding.)

    Anyway, you aren't likely to get any real information about the bank's internal process.
     
    Red Kayak and CindiW like this.
  5. CindiW

    CindiW Law Topic Starter Member

    Messages:
    101
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    OK, I will bore you with some details. Maybe I said it before, who remembers? Not me...Anyway, I've gotten conflicting info from the bank. The online account says one bank, the police said it wasn't that bank per the bank ATM manager(?) itself, and again -- who knows?? OK, the best I can say is that (1) I learned a lesson from this, and (2) even in a courtroom, one cannot believe what the other is saying. So, my friend, thanks for listening and -- have a good day! :)
    Oh, and P.S. - the bank will not/cannot by some sort of junk, tell me what was put on the ATM that they say it was done on, etc. etc. the ATM bank said what? "We don't have that ATM," so no questions asked, lol...yikes. It's been almost a bob dylan trip, shall we say...(And Tom Paxton's song, "What Did You Learn in School Today," (Washington never told a lie...lol.)
     
  6. adjusterjack

    adjusterjack Super Moderator

    Messages:
    10,808
    Likes Received:
    4,058
    Trophy Points:
    113

    You're welcome. Now I'll bore you for a bit. I'm not surprised that you are having difficulty with the bank. I had a similar situation several years ago when somebody stole mail out of my mailbox. One of the items was my credit card statement and the statement happened to include two of those convenience checks that the banks send you in the hopes that you will foolishly borrow large amounts of money at exorbitant interest rates.

    Of course, I didn't know until my next statement that included charges totaling $1500. The low lifes had forged my name to both checks. I filed a police report. The bank provided copies of both sides of the check. I quickly proved the forgery and the money was credited right away.

    I asked questions like you did and was refused information on which branch and who did it. I can't imagine how they got past the tellers without my ID. The police wouldn't give me any information about the investigation, and I was never contacted by the prosecutor so I never found out if anybody got caught and prosecuted. Anyway, I was happy enough to get the amount credited and I had the bank stop sending me those damned checks.
     
  7. CindiW

    CindiW Law Topic Starter Member

    Messages:
    101
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    thanks for that. I am finding that the reps often do not know what they're talking about (seriously) so they can give conflicting information. Or lie. The person in charge at the desk is fairly new and so when I got a confusing answer, she got upset. Some people just don't like to admit the truth, or their inadequacies, such as she being new on the job. She lied and never apologized. When I say, she made a mistake about something and I had to keep checking. Until her claim was overturned. She never apologized, so I will avoid her in the future.
    Since I had trusted people to a large extent in the past, never having been hacked like that, I didn't keep it clear in my mind what happened before the theft. But I'm learning about the "system." (He said, he said he didn't say it, he said she said it, she said he said it, never said that, etc.)
    In a way, I'm mentally prepared to lose the 1200 if I have to. I don't expect justice any more, although to get the money back would be nice. We did cancel all the cards associated with the account, and it's hard to say what protections the bank has if somebody somehow hacks into the account with a stolen check. Who knows? I will ask. I mean all one has to do is drive to teller and have a check with our names on it maybe.
    But today the most absurd thing happened. The bank up north sent a check for the remaining amount to us here. And the front of the envelope read through the window, believe it or not: PAY TO: and then my husband's name and address was right there in full sight. Just how dumb can people be? (Very.) Anyway -- in a way I might not want to find out who "did it," since who knows? that person might be nuts enough to come to my house (condo) and hurt us. Oh well. Take care, thanks for sharing your experience.
    I'll call the investigator tomorrow and see if she's in.
     
  8. adjusterjack

    adjusterjack Super Moderator

    Messages:
    10,808
    Likes Received:
    4,058
    Trophy Points:
    113

    I'll see your bank bureaucracy and offer 10 years of battle with the VA health system bureaucracy and raise you one with a recent issue with the IRS where the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing. I also recall 20 years of dealing with mortgage company morons when I had mortgages. Then there was a two year hostile divorce. And I have a 52 year old son who is homeless because of drug addiction and a criminal record.

    Just trying to give you some perspective. What you are going through now, as bad as it seems, will eventually be resolved one way or the other and you will get over it and move on.
     
    justblue likes this.
  9. CindiW

    CindiW Law Topic Starter Member

    Messages:
    101
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Thank you very much. I've been married for almost 50 years, it has not been "easy," but I can only imagine how awful it must be to go through a divorce, especially if devious actions are taken. I won't go into detals.
    My brother-in-law was floating from home to home for a while, he didn't sleep on the streets, but he's a conniver. We finally refused to give him any more money no matter what because nothing he says makes sense, although it's losing something, paying others back. But now that I think about it, since it happened to me, maybe he DID lose something. But anyway, he doesn't like advice. He has a place via the government, a nice apartment so it seems, so unless he decides to leave or play around, he's doing ok.
    I have learned a lot by this episode, the police are not easy to engage, I guess they're looking for active shooters. ? And I do have sympathy for them because I guess they like the action? But at least they're there sometimes. It's a troublesome world we live in.
    Anyway, thanks again. Oh, and the person from Experian is also not easy to reach. So much for that. My days are now taken up with following the money (on credit cards, etc.) I just had a phishing email claiming to be from Paypal. Fortunately I learned enough to not click on any links. I called Paypal, the rep was helpful and said these scams are proliferating. And all over the dark web where people buy stolen information.
    Yet there are better days coming, I sincerely believe that. (Isaiah 46 and Revelation 21)
    Take care, thanks for your kind note.
     
  10. CindiW

    CindiW Law Topic Starter Member

    Messages:
    101
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    OK, so now I have another question. I've received a lot of information from the bank. I don't always receive the right information, meaning that sometimes I get more next time I call, or different information. I want to write a letter explaining things to the bank, should I have it notarized? (I don't really know what that will do but I'm wondering anyway...)
     
  11. cbg

    cbg Super Moderator

    Messages:
    8,815
    Likes Received:
    2,032
    Trophy Points:
    113

    There's no reason to have your signature notarized. All notarization means is that the notary has confirmed that you are who you say you are. It doesn't give any legal import to the contents of the document.
     
    justblue likes this.
  12. Zigner

    Zigner Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,950
    Likes Received:
    2,819
    Trophy Points:
    113

    Another service that a notary provide is completing a jurat. In essence, the notary would verify that the signer swore to the truthfulness of the document, and lying in such a document is perjury. I don't think it would make a difference for the OP, but it does go beyond simply confirming identity.

    Notary Acknowledgement vs. Jurat | The Florida Notary Association
     
  13. cbg

    cbg Super Moderator

    Messages:
    8,815
    Likes Received:
    2,032
    Trophy Points:
    113

    Ah. In MA, when and where I was a licensed notary, notaries did not provide that service.
     
  14. Zigner

    Zigner Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,950
    Likes Received:
    2,819
    Trophy Points:
    113

    Yep - it's state specific. I almost posted that without checking if it applied in Florida (it does). It also applies in California, where I am a notary. I don't know about any other states, and I'll probably forget about Florida by the end of the day.
     
    cbg likes this.
  15. adjusterjack

    adjusterjack Super Moderator

    Messages:
    10,808
    Likes Received:
    4,058
    Trophy Points:
    113

    Why? It won't change anything and will probably be filed away or you'll get some vacuous apology which also won't change anything.

    The money's back in your account, at least provisionally. That's a good sign. I suggest you back off and wait until the bank finishes what it's doing and a final decision is made.

    That's my 2 cents worth. But if writing a letter makes you feel good, have at it.
     
  16. CindiW

    CindiW Law Topic Starter Member

    Messages:
    101
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    OK, 2 things. One is that I have the police reports and I "guess" I should fax them to the bank. Another is that, believe it or not, the bank the ATM belongs to is refusing to give the police dept. any information about whether it has photographic capabilities without a subpoena.Can you imagine? Even the investigator said it's hard to believe, but she intends to do a subpoena to obtain information.
     
  17. CindiW

    CindiW Law Topic Starter Member

    Messages:
    101
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    In reference to it being a good sign that the money is provisionally back in the account, I believe (not sure) that it's the law under some sort of banking code. The bank has 45-90 days to finalize it's decision.
     
  18. CindiW

    CindiW Law Topic Starter Member

    Messages:
    101
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Yes, I was wondering what good would it do, so I probably won't give much more thought to it, it'll go to the back of my brain whatever is left of it. I figure now if the bank doesn't believe me, why would they believe a notarized statement? I have the police reports but they're not really saying anything other than I reported the action. However, I'll send them in anyway. Thanks.
     
  19. adjusterjack

    adjusterjack Super Moderator

    Messages:
    10,808
    Likes Received:
    4,058
    Trophy Points:
    113

    I'm closing the thread as there is nothing more anybody here can do for you.
     
    justblue likes this.
  20. CindiW

    CindiW Law Topic Starter Member

    Messages:
    101
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Our bank account was hacked with an ATM. Two ATMs and the thief (? or thieves) got $1200. The first response from the bank was that they determined it was not fraud since whoever took it knew the pin. My husband and I went in to the bank and gave us little to no information about it, claimed the pin numbers are encrypted, etc. and etc. (or blah blah) Meantime, I filed two police reports and maybe they are investigating. I say maybe, since I suppose they have more important things to do, but I do know the police have to subpoena the bank in question to look into the photos, if there are any, from the incidents at the ATMs. Here's my question now -- and thank you for listening and hopefully answering -- can I sue the bank for (1) wrong decision because they have no real proof it was not fraud other than their claim that the right pin was used -- they won't tell me what pin was used, though, so far...that's "confidential"? or -- unattainable -- or encrypted, etc. etc. and (2) emotional distress caused by their bad decision? I figure it will be expensive to hire a lawyer, but -- maybe a lawyer can tell me if they think there is a case.
     

Share This Page

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.