Are Signed Offer Letters Binding?

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Chipan

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I just started a new position 1-2 months ago. My offer letter explicitly offered a dayshift with no conditions or caveats. It was recently brought to my attention that my manager wants to move me to nights in a couple months after I complete my training phase and this has always been the intention. I pointed out to my manager that the offer letter promises me a dayshift, he says "I don't know about that... but I will speak to HR manager. If it says that, we will honor it." Then he gets back to me saying briefly in passing "HR manager said you can work any shift. Talk to her." I talked to HR manager, and she basically said the company isn't bound by anything in the offer letter, except benefits, because of the at will clause which states "The company reserves the right to modify or alter the terms and conditions of your employment at any time."

This conversation happened today, but essentially the HR manager isn't budging and thinks promises that aren't money are moot, even if it's in the contract. I understand that at will means they can change the shift at some point for business needs, but they seem to think they don't need to honor it in the first place, or they think the temporary days status I have is sufficient and they don't need to explain that it's temporary because "nothing is permanent because we can fire you tomorrow."

Is this right? What options do I have? This is in California. Thank you.
 
An offer letter isn't an employment contract.

If you're smart, don't start with DEMANDS before you become an employee.

Your actions, whining, moaning, groaning, demanding, BEFORE you've worked a month on the job will eventually lead to an abrupt dismissal.

Prove your worth by your actions and accomplishments before you make demands, lest you suddenly find yourself UNEMPLOYED!!!!
 
army judge said:
An offer letter isn't an employment contract.

If you're smart, don't start with DEMANDS before you become an employee.

Your actions, whining, moaning, groaning, demanding, BEFORE you've worked a month on the job will eventually lead to an abrupt dismissal.

Prove your worth by your actions and accomplishments before you make demands, lest you suddenly find yourself UNEMPLOYED!!!!
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Let me clarify. I am not a perspective employee, I'm an actual employee who's in the payroll and receiving benefits. And I'm more than a month in.

I'm not making demands like asking for a raise or a corner office. I'm simply asking the company to honor their promise about the shift they put in writing. I understand they have discretion in these areas, but they can't lie about the shift situation with impunity. That's fraud or misrepresentation.

HR actually acknowledged the binding nature of the offer letter in another matter. They told me I don't get my vacation time until 90 days, I pointed out the offer letter says 30. HR manager said that's a mistake, but took it up with corporate and agreed to give it to me. But HR manager thinks this is different because only benefits are guarenteed, not shifts. But I still don't think they can lie to get me in the door to pull the rug out.
 
Chipan said:
But I still don't think they can lie to get me in the door to pull the rug out.
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You're a big boy or girl. As far as lying to you, be wary, you might end up being forced to eat your words. Bottom line, you're the one seeking to become an employee. You have needs the corporation doesn't, mate. Slow your roll, you're just another crab, trying to climb and claw your way into their barrel.

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cbg said:
An offer letter does not guarantee that nothing will ever change. They are not binding in the sense that everything in it is guaranteed for the life of your employment They are not contracts.
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I understand the shift provision is not a lifetime guarentee, but in this case it's a bait and switch. They intend to switch me over right after my training phase, they admitted they intended this from the beginning yet didn't put temporary status on the shift promise. So there's a difference between them having the right to change it, and them failing to honor it in the first place.
 
Chipan said:
Is this right?
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If "right" means legal, yes.


Chipan said:
What options do I have?
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You're free to quit at any time.


Chipan said:
I understand the shift provision is not a lifetime guarentee, but in this case it's a bait and switch. They intend to switch me over right after my training phase, they admitted they intended this from the beginning yet didn't put temporary status on the shift promise. So there's a difference between them having the right to change it, and them failing to honor it in the first place.
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Did you turn down another job in order to take this position, and do you have any evidence that you did so because of the shift thing? If so, then you MIGHT have some sort of claim.

You have to think this through. What are you going to do about this? Are you going to sue your employer for breach of contract and seek an injunction to force your employer to let you work a particular shift? How do you suppose that will go for you?

Does the situation suck? Sure, but there's no legal recourse here.
 
cbg said:
They could have changed it on your first day if they'd chosen to. An offer letter is not a contract.
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So let me see if I have this straight. So if I lie on my resume, I am liable. But they lie on an offer letter... they're not. Is that right?
 
You aren't in a union, correct? You're talking about just a regular old offer letter in an at will state, correct? You are sadly mistaken if you think they have to honor what's written in an offer letter (which, incidentally, they have. You are being trained on a day shift. That means you are working days. They can switch you to any other shift they want anytime they want and there is nothing you can do except quit if you don't like it). If you want to stay employed, I suggest you suck it up and put in your time on second shift while you patiently wait for a shift to open on first.
 
Chipan said:
So let me see if I have this straight. So if I lie on my resume, I am liable. But they lie on an offer letter... they're not. Is that right?
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Liable for what?

If you lie on your resume, you're subject to being fired, and you wouldn't be eligible for unemployment insurance.

If an employer fails to disclose an intent to change the conditions of employment, it's subject to the employee quitting, and the employee might be eligible for unemployment insurance.

It's perfectly congruous.

This is what "at will" means. The employer may fire an employee at any time and for any reason that is not expressly illegal (e.g., discrimination based on race, gender, etc.). The employee, on the other hand, has the absolute right to quit at any time and for any reason, including reasons for which it would be illegal for an employer to fire an employee. Since the employment may be terminated at any time, so too may the conditions of employment be changed at any time.
 
If an offer letter is binding, you will never be eligible for a raise, You will never be eligible for more vacation time than is presented in the offer. You will never get any kind of increase over what you had on your first day. It can't be contractual only when you want it to be. It either is or it isn't.
 
cbg said:
If an offer letter is binding, you will never be eligible for a raise, You will never be eligible for more vacation time than is presented in the offer. You will never get any kind of increase over what you had on your first day. It can't be contractual only when you want it to be. It either is or it isn't.
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Outstanding explanation that appears PUZZLING to ONE PERSON. Life is easy, if you're familiar with ADULTING!
 
Chipan said:
So let me see if I have this straight. So if I lie on my resume, I am liable. But they lie on an offer letter... they're not. Is that right?
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I don't believe they lied on the offer letter. They told you the shift you'd be working, and you've been working that shift. They also said they have the right to change it, and they are not exercising that right. Based only on what you've told us, even if this was, somehow, a contract, I don't see any violation of the provisions of the contract.
 
cbg said:
If an offer letter is binding, you will never be eligible for a raise, You will never be eligible for more vacation time than is presented in the offer. You will never get any kind of increase over what you had on your first day. It can't be contractual only when you want it to be. It either is or it isn't.
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This is misunderstanding how an offer letter works. The offer letter established a baseline, it does not make it a static contract. It can change by mutual agreement or perspective changes.

I'm not saying the offer letter is binding in perpetuity. That's absurd. But it is binding for initial working conditions and benefits. Corporate HR already acknowledged this when they corrected their other mistake by giving me PTO stating I'm day 30, despite their policy saying it starts on day 90. If the offer letter isn't binding, why did HR think it was in that instance? Do they know less that you?

The point I'm making is that HR made a false representation of the working conditions, and I detrimentally relied on these false representations. Toscano v Green Music recognized damages from detrimental reliance from an offer letter. You say it's not binding, but case law says otherwise.

And that's the problem... all of you are not citing anything. You're just making it up.

As for "but you're working days now..." There is a material difference between a temporary shift and a permanent one, just as there's a difference between a temp employee and full time. They don't have the right to mislead employees to get them in the door.
 
cbg said:
Okay then. Hire a lawyer and sue away. Let us know what happens.
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I have talked to a law firm who wants to take my case on contingency, but I don't think I want to do that yet because it guarantees the company will push me out. I am trying to handle it through HR for now, escalating to corporate.
 
Chipan said:
This is misunderstanding how an offer letter works. The offer letter established a baseline, it does not make it a static contract. It can change by mutual agreement or perspective changes.

I'm not saying the offer letter is binding in perpetuity. That's absurd. But it is binding for initial working conditions and benefits. Corporate HR already acknowledged this when they corrected their other mistake by giving me PTO stating I'm day 30, despite their policy saying it starts on day 90. If the offer letter isn't binding, why did HR think it was in that instance? Do they know less that you?

The point I'm making is that HR made a false representation of the working conditions, and I detrimentally relied on these false representations. Toscano v Green Music recognized damages from detrimental reliance from an offer letter. You say it's not binding, but case law says otherwise.

And that's the problem... all of you are not citing anything. You're just making it up.

As for "but you're working days now..." There is a material difference between a temporary shift and a permanent one, just as there's a difference between a temp employee and full time. They don't have the right to mislead employees to get them in the door.
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Why do you think that?
 
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