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Americans with disabilities question
- Thread Starter Lisa Voss
- Start date
adjusterjack
Super Moderator
Probably illegal and incredibly stupid.
Option 1 -
She keeps using it and tells the boss she is going to keep using it on the advice of her doctor and her attorney.
If that doesn't shut the boss up and she doesn't want to get into a hassle that might eventually cost her the job, here's a simple solution.
Option 2 -
Amazon.com : folding cane
There's one with a pouch.
She can fold it up and put it in her purse when she gets to the door of the business.
Option 1 -
She keeps using it and tells the boss she is going to keep using it on the advice of her doctor and her attorney.
If that doesn't shut the boss up and she doesn't want to get into a hassle that might eventually cost her the job, here's a simple solution.
Option 2 -
Amazon.com : folding cane
There's one with a pouch.
She can fold it up and put it in her purse when she gets to the door of the business.
Tax Counsel
Well-Known Member
What exactly does the employer mean when it says "she can't have the cane". The details matter. Also, how many employees total does the company have? At least 15? If the total is less than 15 the ADA won't apply but there may be a similar state law that would.
cbg
Super Moderator
And what reason do they give her, why she's not allowed to use it?
flyingron
Well-Known Member
The NC law mimics the federal law, only applies if there are 15 or more employees. However, if the company fits into the category of an employment agency (or hires through one), the law may still apply.
army judge
Super Moderator
I'll take a guess.
The employer, as the OP describes it, seems to employ security guards.
I suspect that if one retains the services of a security guard, one wouldn't want the person to be seen confined to a wheelchair, walking with crutches or a cane, or otherwise appearing less than able to protect the people and things the employing entity desires to safeguard.
Hence, the admonishment, don't take your Hurrycane to the job site.
The other side of that coin causes me to wonder why the employing company would send the person to a job site, or hire a person physically impaired such that he/she could suffer further injury on the job, or be unable to perform the tasks expected of any security guard.
Just my guess as to why the cane seems to be a volatile issue.
cbg
Super Moderator
Even a security company needs administrative workers. Someone has to do sales and marketing, payroll and HR, dispatch, office management.
Your scenario is reasonable IF she is a security guard. If she is not, then the situation is more problematic. Perhaps the OP will provide more detail.
Your scenario is reasonable IF she is a security guard. If she is not, then the situation is more problematic. Perhaps the OP will provide more detail.
army judge
Super Moderator
Thank you for confirming my instincts and deductions I made relative to your top post!
I see nothing improper in the employer's requirement.
You might suggest to your acquaintance to discuss inside work, as in monitoring video and/or audio equipment used to surveil a premise/property.
Beyond that, suggest that she discuss other employment opportunities with her current employer.
Your acquaintance might also look for employment opportunities where using and carrying a mobility assistance device (as in cane) isn't prohibited or frowned upon.
cbg
Super Moderator
I'm not so sure that the visuals override her rights under the ADA. She can't have a folding cane under her desk?
army judge
Super Moderator
I'm not sure, either.
I don't believe the prohibition is just about appearances.
There are many scenarios where an able bodied person would be very important.
The only way the affected person can know for sure is to request an appointment with her HR Representative.
She should pose her questions directly to the employer's assorted representatives.
I don't think it is entirely about appearances.
Common sense suggests a security guard must possess certain physical abilities to properly function.
I would also suggest that the person impacted by the employer endeavor to fully understand why her employer mandates the requirement under discussion.
She might also speak with her primary physician to better understand any health risks associated with her employment.
Last, but not least, she could arrange a discussion with the following state agency:
NCDHHS (disability services)
NC DHHS: Disability Services
100% sitting on the bench with Army Judge - I don't think it's always about appearances but if the security guard needs the cane to walk to and from her vehicle and to the job site, it stands to reason she would need it to get around or in any security/emergency situation. So this truly might be a BFOQ that can't be accommodated. Even if 99% of her job is sitting at a desk, it's that 1% she is also hired for...especially if she is the only guard on duty at times.
cbg
Super Moderator
The poster said, there is very little activity other than traveling to and from the job site.
If there is ever going to be a possibility that she is actually going to have to chase someone down, then of course I agree that a cane is not an option. But if all she is doing is sitting at a desk checking people in and out, I stand by my answer.
If there is ever going to be a possibility that she is actually going to have to chase someone down, then of course I agree that a cane is not an option. But if all she is doing is sitting at a desk checking people in and out, I stand by my answer.
Zigner
Well-Known Member
"Very little" > "none".
By the very nature of the job, a "security guard" may be called upon at any time to physically protect the something or somebody they are employed to protect. Yes, the main duties may be desk duties, but that doesn't mean they can never be called upon to do something more physical.
army judge
Super Moderator
Security guards can be tasked with administering first aid, reporting safety hazards after doing periodic safety checks, suppressing fires, reporting fires, investigating alarms, checking ID Cards, etc...
Top 10 Duties of a Security Guard
1. To be clearly visible
One of the duties of a security guard is to make his or herself clearly visible, as this would deter criminals. Most burglars, shoplifters, muggers, and other criminals would think twice if they see a security guard on duty. So, being visible is one of the ways by which a security guard foils theft, damage, personal injury, and other dastardly acts.
2. To be vigilant
A security guard watches out for any strange thing that may mean harm. For this reason, he must have very keen senses of sight, hearing, and smelling. He should be able to smell it when a cable is burning or when a chemical is leaking from its container.
He should be able to detect strange sounds, such as when someone is secretly trying to open a door. He should be able to sense it when someone is cleverly trying to divert his attention off his duty. And he should be able to interpret quickly whatever he sees. So based on these responsibilities, someone who is short-sighted or long-sighted won't make a good security guard.
3. To respond quickly and correctly during crisis
Not only does a security guard sense crisis; he acts fast to control the situation. So, a security guard must always be at alert to avoid being caught unawares. How a security guard responds to crisis varies depending on the threat. A security guard must know how best to respond to various dangerous situations.
4. Observing and reporting
Even after a dangerous situation has been successfully averted, a security guard must not relax yet. He should keep observing until he is sure that there are no more problems. After a crisis, a security guard should report the incident to his supervisor, the police or the appropriate authorities (such as the fire services in the case of a fire outbreak). This way, further steps would be taken to avert a future recurrence.
5. Getting help
During some very dangerous situations (such as armed robbery attacks or assaults with deadly weapons), a security guard may be unable to handle the situation. In that case, he would need some help, and he should waste no time in calling the police. By getting help this way, loss of lives or property would be averted.
6. Checking and monitoring
Sometimes, a security guard would be required to maintain certain rules and policies as laid down by his employer. Individuals may require that visitors be searched before granted entry or that only visitors for which an appointment has been earlier fixed should be granted entry. Similarly, organizations may require their employees to show their ID cards before being granted entry into the work premises. In such cases, a security guard must check and ensure that all the rules and obeyed.
7. Maintain order among people
Security guards are usually present in large gatherings, such as parties and political or religious assemblies. This is to ensure the safety of lives and property and also to prevent stampedes and breakdown of law and order.
8. Receiving guests
If a security guard positions at an entrance, chances are, he will double as a receptionist because he is usually the first to receive guests and show them their way. This additional duty requires a security guard to be very friendly, approachable, and willing to help others.
9. Offer safety warnings and tips
Among the responsibilities of the security guard is to give tips and precautions to his employers on how to prevent security-threatening situations. He should also explain the likely consequences of ignoring these tips, as a way of convincing his employers to adhere to his advice. In addition, a security guard should do his best to ensure that all safety precautions are adhered to.
10. Performing other special duties
Some security guards, especially those hired by individuals, do more than their primary duty most of the time. They may be saddled with additional responsibilities, such as receiving phone calls, responding to text and email messages, and running vital errands for their employer. If you are planning to take up a full-time or part-time security guard job, keep in mind that you will be required to perform these duties.
10 Duties, Responsibilities and Role of a Security Guard in 2022
...
Security Guard duties and responsibilities
The overall duty of a Security Guard is to protect a company's property, employees and visitors. Here are some of their typical daily responsibilities that you can include in a job description:
1. Patrolling and monitoring activities on the company's premises regularly to discourage criminals and ensure the environment is safe and secure
2. Evicting trespassers and violators and detaining perpetrators while following legal protocols before relevant authorities arrive to take over
3. Controlling the entrance and departure of employees, visitors and vehicles according to protocols
4. Monitoring surveillance cameras to watch out for any disruptions or unlawful activities
5. Providing detailed reports on daily activities and any incidents that may have occurred to management
6. Testing security systems and, if needed, operating X-ray machines and metal detectors
7. Using provided communication devices such as two-way radios in a clear and concise manner
8. Performing CPR or first aid promptly as needed
https://www.indeed.com/hire/job-description/security-guard
...
cbg
Super Moderator
I concede all of your points. However:
They didn't say, because she might need to participate in some kind of active duty. The reason she was given was, It wouldn't look good.
That. to me, is a problem. The reasons all of you set down are not at all unreasonable and would be valid reasons to deny her a position as a security guard.
But that's not what they did. What they did was, they took away her cane because it didn't look good. Is she going to be any better equipped to subdue a troublemaker or give first aid or any of your other suggestions without a cane as with one? The reasons you're all setting down are good reasons to refuse to hire her into a security position, and if it's really that impossible for her to fulfill the essential functions of her position with or without a cane it's a valid reason to fire her.
So why did they focus on what it looked like? And put her back in the same position?
They didn't say, because she might need to participate in some kind of active duty. The reason she was given was, It wouldn't look good.
That. to me, is a problem. The reasons all of you set down are not at all unreasonable and would be valid reasons to deny her a position as a security guard.
But that's not what they did. What they did was, they took away her cane because it didn't look good. Is she going to be any better equipped to subdue a troublemaker or give first aid or any of your other suggestions without a cane as with one? The reasons you're all setting down are good reasons to refuse to hire her into a security position, and if it's really that impossible for her to fulfill the essential functions of her position with or without a cane it's a valid reason to fire her.
So why did they focus on what it looked like? And put her back in the same position?
army judge
Super Moderator
The reasons we were provided was supplied by someone tangentially connected to the aggrieved party, not from the party herself.
When information isn't received from the person in distress, it can very often be inaccurate.
Zigner
Well-Known Member
Agreed - I mean I can easily see "How would it look if an emergency happened and our security guard wasn't able to respond appropriately because she uses a cane?" being interpreted as "How would it look for our security guard to have a cane?"
Tax Counsel
Well-Known Member
I agree. We can only go by the information we get here. Assuming that the OP is wrong and adding in what we think the employer might have said is unproductive speculation. None of us has a functioning crystal ball to divine independently what really happened.
Of course, if the OP provided bad information then the answers the OP gets won't be of much value. But I think it best to generally go by the facts we're given, rather than make up our own "facts".
One thing about the facts that we are given that makes me wonder what the employer's true motives are is that the employer knows she has a disability and uses a cane. If that would prevent her from doing any essential functions of her job, why was she hired in the first place? If the employer thought she was capable of doing the job before, what changed? And if she is not capable of doing the job without the cane, what possible good is hiding going to do? If she can't do the job even with the cane, then she shouldn't be in that position even if she hides the cane. If she can do the job with the cane, then under the ADA the employer asking her to hide it is a problem.
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