Trust & Probate Question

[Adverse]

Jurisdiction

Missouri

First of all, yes, we have an attorney and he has done quite a lot of work, but I have not been able to find an answer to what I feel should be a simple question:

Does the Successor Trustee of a Revocable Living Trust have the right to be informed of the status of financial accounts that had to go to Probate?

There is a pour-over Will, so the Probate Estate will pass on to the Trust eventually.

Here's the facts.

I am the Successor Trustee for my deceased Aunt's revocable living trust. While she was living, I had her durable general power of attorney, so I am familiar with her assets, having managed them solely her last two years. Unfortunately, her financial advisor, the person who established the Trust, her estate plan, and set up her 7 financial accounts, lied to me, saying all her financial accounts were TOD to the Trust. It turns out $500,000 in accounts he set up were not, and have gone to Probate.

I had not been informed that I had her power of attorney until I discovered it on my own, three years after my appointment.

Her financial advisor left the company not long after I got involved. Hmmm! The financial advisor who took over has apologized for the way the first one "dropped the ball", but the institution has not. They have only been cooperative because I have an attorney for the Trust separate from the financial institution.

I do not know the person my Aunt designated as Personal Representative, and he has not been forthcoming about those accounts, which supposedly have been moved (intact I'm told) to estate accounts in Probate. He did not know he had been named PR, and he is not familiar with her assets, but is a customer of the same financial institution.

Of course, my power of attorney rights ended when my Aunt died, and the financial institution cut off my access to monitor them. I cannot even advise the PR regarding the accounts that I had been in charge of prior to her death.

In Probate I have been designated as Successor Trustee to the Trust.

Needless to say, the financial institution has been sketchy, and all I want to do now is protect the beneficiaries, make sure that the accounts are being handled properly. Probate should be over in 3 months, but not being able to monitor the accounts after managing them for two years is disturbing.

I came back to say that my Aunt was in her 80's when her financial advisor recruited her, set up her Estate Plan, converted her assets to products he sold her, and failed to notify me of my power of attorney for three years. I mention that because my Dad incurred elder financial abuse form his broker 20 years ago, and I spent 15 years working on that, get restitution collected. I also did the forensic accounting that showed the amount of loss.

 

[adjusterjack]

Does the Successor Trustee of a Revocable Living Trust have the right to be informed of the status of financial accounts that had to go to Probate?

Generally, yes.

Probate and trust laws generally allow a beneficiary of either a trust or probate to obtain information in varying amounts from the executor or trustee.

Your lawyer should have been able to answer that question in a heartbeat.

You can look up your state's trust and probate codes:

Missouri Revised Statutes Title XXXI (2022) - Trusts and Estates of Decedents and Persons Under Disability :: 2022 Missouri Revised Statutes :: US Codes and Statutes :: US Law :: Justia

The applicable sections shouldn't be too hard to find.

 

[Tax Counsel]

Generally, yes.

Probate and trust laws generally allow a beneficiary of either a trust or probate to obtain information in varying amounts from the executor or trustee.

That's not an answer to the question asked. Yes, a beneficiary of a trust or will is entitled to be apprised of what is occurring in the probate court and moreover should be able to see that in the court records that are open to the public.

But generally a person named successor trustee has no right to information about the trust/estate due to being named successor trustee until he or she actually becomes the trustee. If the person named successor trustee is also a beneficiary then he/she may use his/her status as beneficiary to ensure he/she is kept informed of what is going on.

 

[Adverse]

I agree with Tax Counsel based on my experience.

&, other than what is Public information, I don't believe the beneficiaries to the Trust have the right to intimate knowledge of or access to the estate accounts in Probate. Only the PR does. Beneficiaries may access to the Date of Death asset values, but so do I since I am the one that provided them because I had power of attorney. When I did, I monitored my Aunt's accounts every day. Before the financial institution cut off my access I took screen shots.

One more thing that eroded any confidence I might have had left in the financial institution is that when the Head Counsel finally provided account information to our attorney for the Trust, she said that one of the bank accounts that the financial advisor said, in writing, were TOD to the Trust, had another beneficiary, and would not revealed who. I had been converting real estate and other assets to cash the previous year, and I had deposited close to $200,000 in that account (because it was TOD to the Trust). $200,000 to some unnamed person!!!! Man, did I have some sleepless nights. I even emailed her one of those sleepless nights, forwarding the email from the financial advisor proving what he said. I was on the verge of filing a FINRA complaint, and had even talked to FINRA about they needed. "That email would be nice."

Then, out of the blue, the Head Counsel sent me, and our attorney, an email saying she had made a mistake, and had looked at a beneficiary long since removed.

But she did nothing to stop $500,000 from having to go to Probate, causing delay and unnecessary expense.

As my distant cousin Johnny Carson would have said, "I do not Trust my financial advisors Dewey, Cheatem and Howe.

As my deceased step sister would have said, "Could you say it shorter?"

 

[Adverse]

The bad news is that the financial institution is unprofessional and incompetent.

The good news is that the financial institution is unprofessional and incompetent.

They failed to removed both my Aunt and me (as attorney in fact) from the largest account that had to go to Probate, so I am still getting two copies of the quarterly statement.

It has gone up in value, so no one is messing around with it.

But, still, they have caused unnecessary delay and the expense of Probate, which will be $30K-ish.

And, since I'm still getting those statements, I might assume that the account has not been transferred to the Probate Estate.

 

[Zigner]

Does the administrator know about the account?

 

[Adverse]

Does the administrator know about the account?

Sorry, I have not been paying attention.

"Administrator" of what?

I am the Successor Trustee, and someone else is the Personal Representative. He, and he alone, is in charge of the assets that went to Probate.

I have already distributed most of the funds that went directly to the Trust, and I'm waiting for the end of Probate for whatever is left to go to the Trust via the pour-over Will, so I can distribute it.

 

[Zigner]

Sorry, I have not been paying attention.

"Administrator" of what?

I am the Successor Trustee, and someone else is the Personal Representative. He, and he alone, is in charge of the assets that went to Probate.

I have already distributed most of the funds that went directly to the Trust, and I'm waiting for the end of Probate for whatever is left to go to the Trust via the pour-over Will, so I can distribute it.

I used "administrator" as a synonym for "Personal Representative".

 

[Zigner]

I would argue that the trust is a beneficiary of the will, so the trustee of the trust (you, in this case) would have the same rights as any other beneficiary when it comes to gaining knowledge of the probate matters.

There is enough money here that you NEED to be talking to an attorney, not an internet forum.

 

[Adverse]

I used "administrator" as a synonym for "Personal Representative".

I anticipated that, and answered it.

To further clutter the issue, I had been attorney-in-fact, so I am familiar with the people who can get things done at the financial institution where the accounts are held. The PR ignored me, and forged ahead on his own. He found what I had learned, and tried to share, that the financial institution is Dysfunctional, except for a couple of people.

My angst now is that I don't even have the right to determine if the accounts have been converted to Probate (Estate) accounts. The quarterly report I received for the largest account does not indicate that it has been.

Of course, once Probate ends, and my powers as Successor Trustee begins, I will have to convert the same accounts to Trust accounts, the same as I had to do for the accounts that went directly to the Trust.

Since all of the accounts were supposedly going directly to the Trust, Probate was never supposed to happen.

 

[zddoodah]

I didn't respond when you first started, so I'll try to catch up.

I do not know the person my Aunt designated as Personal Representative, and he has not been forthcoming about those accounts, which supposedly have been moved (intact I'm told) to estate accounts in Probate.

Let's start here. Simply being "designated" in a will to be personal rep does not make that person personal rep. Has he been appointed by the probate court to act as PR? If so, did he post a bond? If so, when was the appointment? By the way, I assume he was appointed by the court because there'd otherwise be no (legal) way to move accounts in the decedent's name to estate accounts.

Of course, my power of attorney rights ended when my Aunt died

A bit of a tangent, but there is no such thing as "power of attorney rights." An attorney-in-fact or agent appointed by a POA has lots of duties and obligations but no rights at all.

In Probate I have been designated as Successor Trustee to the Trust.

Is the administration of the trust under probate court supervision? Most trusts are not court-supervised.

Probate should be over in 3 months

Three months from when? I've never heard of a probate lasting only three months.

Does the Successor Trustee of a Revocable Living Trust have the right to be informed of the status of financial accounts that had to go to Probate?

Rather than answer the question in the abstract, I'll answer it specific to the situation you described. You said the will is a pour-over will, so I assume the trust is the only beneficiary of the estate. That being the case, you, as trustee, have the rights of a beneficiary of an estate. Normally, the PR has an obligation to file an initial accounting of estate assets and serve the accounting on beneficiaries. I have no idea when that must happen under Missouri law, but six months after issuance of the letters testamentary would not be unusual. After that, accountings typically have to happen annually or bi-annually until the estate is closed.

I'm not sure if there's more that you need answered, but I note that you said you have an attorney to represent you in your capacity as trustee.

 

[Adverse]

Update, and some clarification.

Yes, we have an attorney, representing The Trust, and me as the Trustee. Probate was opened properly and all the people involved have received recognition, appointments, letters, etc. Of course, the financial institution has received all of that, too.

Everything on our end is above-board, according to the law, exactly what was supposed to be done.

Named as parties in Probate are the decedent, the attorney, the Trust, me (as Trustee), and the PR.

Probably repeating, the financial institution had prepared the entire Estate Plan in January, 2017, seven financial accounts are under their umbrella, and their representative said, in writing, "All accounts are TOD to the Trust." That was a lie/error (?), which I discovered after my Aunt died. Three of the accounts had no TOD, so went to Probate.

Originally, the attorney for the financial institution said that one of the accounts that I had deposited $200,000 in (because I was told it was TOD to the Trust) had a beneficary she would not name. That gave me a few sleepless nights. At least a month later, she corrected herself, without apology. It is one of the accounts in Probate.

Those are the only items in Probate and there is a pour-over Will to this Trust. The Will was duly executed, witnessed, and self-proved.

No independent third party was involved in drawing up the Estate Plan. The financial rep drove my then-82-year-old Aunt to the attorney's office to sign the documents, The attorney was the Notary and the financial rep and his wife were the witnesses. The attorney retained all of the documents in an estate binder in his office, and they did not give my Aunt a copy of any of it.

The financial institution never informed me that I was named Attorney in Fact in the General Durable Power of Attorney and the Durable Power of Attorney for Health Care until August, 2021, when my Aunt was hospitalized and I had to ask questions. Because of that, I was not added to the financial accounts in any way, so did not receive any of the very-important notifications. Someone else, someone who was not supposed to, also made healthcare decisions.

As an example, I discovered an uncashed check for over $4000 from one of the investment accounts was in the State Treasurer's Unclaimed Property. The same for several stock dividend payments.

So, there, that's the Readers' Digest version.

The update is that the financial institution has refused to retitle to the Estate (in Probate) the 3 accounts they lied about, that had to go to Probate. In just about a month the required 6 months of Publication Notice will be up, and I have asked the attorney for the Trust to ask the financial institution to just leave the accounts as they are, and we will have them retitled to the Trust by Court Order at the end of Probate.

I don't see how the financial institution would have the legal right to do just whatever they want with the accounts; they don't own them.

To test the water, today I asked the most reliable and helpful person at the financial institution for the balances in the three accounts (not access to the accounts, just the amounts), so that I can advise the beneficiaries of the upcoming distribution. Of course, I want to compare the balances to date-of-death, 8/21/2022.

She would not tell me.

 

[Adverse]

zddoodah said, "You said the will is a pour-over will, so I assume the trust is the only beneficiary of the estate. That being the case, you, as trustee, have the rights of a beneficiary of an estate. . . . . . . "

Yes, I agree, the Trust is the only beneficiary of the Estate, and I agree that I should at least have the right to know what the balances are in the three accounts in Probate. It has been over a year since I have had that information, which I had at that time under the General Durable Power of Attorney. I would think that I have a fiduciary responsibility to the beneficiaries of the Trust to make sure those accounts are secure.

In this case, because I made an initial distribution of the assets that passed directly to the Trust, I made the initial accounting to the beneficiaries. I have not had an accounting made to me since then.

 

[Adverse]

zddoodah said, "You said the will is a pour-over will, so I assume the trust is the only beneficiary of the estate. That being the case, you, as trustee, have the rights of a beneficiary of an estate. . . . . . . "

Yes, I agree, the Trust is the only beneficiary of the Estate, and I agree that I should at least have the right to know what the balances are in the three accounts in Probate. It has been over a year since I have had that information, which I had at that time under the General Durable Power of Attorney. I would think that I have a fiduciary responsibility to the beneficiaries of the Trust to make sure those accounts are secure.

In this case, because I made an initial distribution of the assets that passed directly to the Trust, I made the initial accounting to the beneficiaries. I have not had an accounting made to me since then.

To test the waters, I asked my helpful contact at the financial institution to tell me what the balances are in the three accounts (not give me access to them), and she would not.

So, Probate having less than a month to go, I asked our attorney (for both the Trust and Probate) to just leave the accounts exactly as they are, and we will (hopefully) move them to the Trust by Court Order to end Probate.

The financial institution has proven themselves not trustworthy and they have been the only ones to have access to the accounts for 13 months. That does not seem right.

 

[Adverse]

A couple more weeks and I will hopefully be able to find out if the financial institution is going to pass the accounts on to this Trust. After Probate, and a Court Order, they will have no legal reason not to.

 

[Adverse]

The 6-month publication timeline is over, and we're waiting for the PR to file his final report, and an Order moving the financial accounts to the Trust via the pour-over Will. I still have not been able to find out the balances since the date of death, 14 months ago, even thought the financial institutions knows me because I was attorney-in-fact, and know that I am Successor Trustee. The financial institution is the one who did the estate documents for my aunt.

 

[Zigner]

The 6-month publication timeline is over, and we're waiting for the PR to file his final report, and an Order moving the financial accounts to the Trust via the pour-over Will. I still have not been able to find out the balances since the date of death, 14 months ago, even thought the financial institutions knows me because I was attorney-in-fact, and know that I am Successor Trustee. The financial institution is the one who did the estate documents for my aunt.

Assuming that "PR" means "personal representative" of the estate, that PR will be able to access the account records. In fact, the funds should (or, at least, could) have already been moved out of the account and into the estate account.

 

[Adverse]

Assuming that "PR" means "personal representative" of the estate, that PR will be able to access the account records. In fact, the funds should (or, at least, could) have already been moved out of the account and into the estate account.

The PR did not have the same good relationship with the financial institution that I did when I was attorney-in-fact, good being a generous description. He is a customer of that institution, and did not work through the contacts I had established. So, he was not able to get the accounts moved to the Probate Estate. I finally told our attorney to stop trying, and leave them where they were/are (hopefully).

Hopefully that is because the financial institution knows that the Trust is the sole beneficiary.

The financial institution being dysfunctional, I have still be getting the quarterly report of the largest investment account, and it still exists, at least. I assume the two accounts on the banking side are, too, since no one should have been doing anything with them.

Still, it does not seem logical that the sole beneficiary of the estate is not entitled to know what the balances are during Probate.

 

[Adverse]

Kind of funny, Missouri Statutes call for minimum compensation for Personal Representatives (and attorneys) based on the amount of personal property they administer or real estate they sell in the Probate estate, but the PR was unable to get any of the accounts at the financial institution moved to the Probate estate. He didn't administer anything.

 

[Adverse]

Kind of funny, Missouri Statutes call for minimum compensation for Personal Representatives (and attorneys) based on the amount of personal property they administer or real estate they sell in the Probate estate, but the PR was unable to get any of the accounts at the financial institution moved to the Probate estate. He didn't administer anything.

473.153. Compensation of personal representatives, accountants and attorneys. — 1. . . . . . . When there is only one personal representative he shall be allowed as the minimum compensation for his services the following percentages of the value of the personal property administered and of the proceeds of all real property sold under order of the probate court: