Required to Register as a Sex Offender

B

Brian Thomas

New Member
Jurisdiction
Missouri
Back in 2001 I was sentenced to 10 years in the Missouri DOC.. I am not going to explain all the crazy details, but I was informed I should plead guilty instead of going to trial, as I did a LOT of stupid stuff back then when I was 20yrs old and dumb, but apart of the plea agreement was to plead to a few charges that I WASNT good for, but being young and dumb I trusted my lawyer and I plead guilty…

Those charges that I WASNT good for is the possession and promoting child pornography, again I'm not going into why and how I am NOT guilty of those charges as I believe that is irrelevant with my main question here..

My question is, is it the law for my attorney to let me know EXACTLY what I am pleading guilty to AND isn't it their job to also tell me I would have to register as a sex offender? I KNOW he didn't, but isn't it also by law that the judge was supposed to also tell me I would then be a registered sex offender and have to register for life? I would certainly hope that would be the law.. Basically if I did know I would have to be placed on the registry I certainly would NOT have plead guilty! I would have went to trial and fought those 2 cases..

If my question comes out to be that they were SUPPOSED to by law inform me of that, isn't there anything at all I can do about it?

Again, not going to bore this post with all details, but I WILL be removed from the registry list within next few months, so there's that, but being on that list has literally altered my life drastically and I should have never ever been put on that list, so I would like to know if I have any case at all going after the state..
 
The judge is only required to make sure you have made a voluntary and knowledgeable statement of your guilt. Registration isn't actually considered the penalty so they're not obliged to tell you that it is going to ensue.

At this point, the time has long passed to do anything about what happened at trial.

Promotion is a Tier II offense. If you've kept clean for a few more years (25 consecutive years of registration), you can apply for early release.
 
I suspect that you don't remember everything you were told ~22 years ago, particularly considering your own description of your youthful self.
 
flyingron said:
The judge is only required to make sure you have made a voluntary and knowledgeable statement of your guilt. Registration isn't actually considered the penalty so they're not obliged to tell you that it is going to ensue.

At this point, the time has long passed to do anything about what happened at trial.

Promotion is a Tier II offense. If you've kept clean for a few more years (25 consecutive years of registration), you can apply for early release.
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The only Brian Thomas listed on the MO sex offender registry shows as a tier 1, which is a 15-year registration requirement that probably begins upon release.
 
Red Kayak said:
It's never a good idea to post using one's real name, is it?
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Yea I thought ahead before I posted, not using my real name for obvious reasons.. But I do find it insanely wrong that it's NOT some kind of law for a lawyer OR especially a JUDGE to not inform you of the registration LAWS.. The registration laws have affected me 10x more than a felony has!
Again not going to bore everyone with the whole entire story, but I can say with confidence I wouldn't have plead guilty to those charges IF I knew I was going to be thrown on the registry list..

oh well what's done is done, with my current tier status, I was eligible to petition years ago now, so as of today it has been filed, I guess we will see what happens here soon, well however long Missouri wants to take for the response
 
Brian Thomas said:
The registration laws have affected me 10x more than a felony has!
Again not going to bore everyone with the whole entire story, but I can say with confidence I wouldn't have plead guilty to those charges IF I knew I was going to be thrown on the registry list..
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You are not the only one who has realized this too late. "Hindsight is 20/20" isn't an idiom for nothing.

Unfortunately, pleading not guilty can result in years of limbo.
 
Red Kayak said:
Unfortunately, pleading not guilty can result in years of limbo.
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Very true, but only after one voluntarily engages in breaking society's laws.

Our law enforcement officers don't emulate those in certain lesser countries, where the police regularly round up and arrest hordes of the citizenry as cowboys round up and herd cattle.
 
Brian Thomas said:
Back in 2001 I was sentenced to 10 years in the Missouri DOC.. I am not going to explain all the crazy details, but I was informed I should plead guilty instead of going to trial, as I did a LOT of stupid stuff back then when I was 20yrs old and dumb, but apart of the plea agreement was to plead to a few charges that I WASNT good for, but being young and dumb I trusted my lawyer and I plead guilty…

Those charges that I WASNT good for is the possession and promoting child pornography, again I'm not going into why and how I am NOT guilty of those charges as I believe that is irrelevant with my main question here..

My question is, is it the law for my attorney to let me know EXACTLY what I am pleading guilty to AND isn't it their job to also tell me I would have to register as a sex offender? I KNOW he didn't, but isn't it also by law that the judge was supposed to also tell me I would then be a registered sex offender and have to register for life? I would certainly hope that would be the law.. Basically if I did know I would have to be placed on the registry I certainly would NOT have plead guilty! I would have went to trial and fought those 2 cases..

If my question comes out to be that they were SUPPOSED to by law inform me of that, isn't there anything at all I can do about it?

Again, not going to bore this post with all details, but I WILL be removed from the registry list within next few months, so there's that, but being on that list has literally altered my life drastically and I should have never ever been put on that list, so I would like to know if I have any case at all going after the state..
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I mean...how would you not know that pleading guilty to having images of child porn would cause a sex offender registry? And what would you do at this point if they were supposed to tell you what you asked? You won't get the years back you were on the registry.
 
You're lucky it's just registration. I have a friend who was convicted of child porn and in addition to the 18 months he spent in jail, he had five years of probation that involved no access to the computers or internet in any form, plus the sex offender registration.
 
your lawyer at the time was probably more concerned with keeping you out of prison regardless of what other conditions you are required to meet. Going to prison as a child sex convict would have been very hard time indeed.
 
Brian Thomas said:
But I do find it insanely wrong that it's NOT some kind of law for a lawyer OR especially a JUDGE to not inform you of the registration LAWS.
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Your lawyer should have informed you of all the consequences of the guilty plea, including registration. Not doing so may amount to malpractice. The problem is that suing for legal malpractice generally must be done within a fairly short period of time from when the malpractice occurred, usually 2-3 years. There may be a discovery rule in your state that would extend that a bit, but under a discovery rule you need to file promptly upon learning the facts that support the malpractice claim.

You might also have had a claim for ineffective assistance of counsel to get the plea bargain reversed. Again, though, there are time limitations to that. There is also the risk that if you undo your plea agreement that you won't get as good a result from the next prosecutor, and if you go to trial and get convicted, the sentence will surely be worse than what you are facing now.

You may, of course, file a complaint about it with the state court or agency that regulates the practice of law. That agency will typically take some kind of action if the lawyer is determined by the agency to have fallen below the standards of legal practice. The result, though, may only be a warning or public censure; it's not guaranteed the lawyer would be suspended or disbarred over it. And in any event it doesn't help you out of your current situation. So you might not get a lot of satisfaction from that.

If you can succeed in your petition to get off the registration list, that will give you the best relief. Ideally you'd have done that as soon as you were eligible. The problems you've had since the eligibility date are at least partly attributable to your own delay in pursuing that.
 
Tax Counsel said:
Your lawyer should have informed you of all the consequences of the guilty plea, including registration.
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Dollars to donuts that the OP WAS informed at the time (22 years ago) and simply has no recollection of it at this point.
 
Zigner said:
Dollars to donuts that the OP WAS informed at the time (22 years ago) and simply has no recollection of it at this point.
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Correct you are, sir.

Having adjudicated many criminal cases over the years, with ALL plea agreements, the judge must admonish the defendant and ensure her/his rights are protected. The defendant is also required to allocute as to the crime(s) to which she/he is pleading guilty.

//////////////////////////////

37.58. Pleas

(a) Alternatives. A defendant may plead not guilty or guilty. If a defendant refuses to plead or if a corporation fails to appear, the court shall enter a plea of not guilty.

(b) Advice to Defendant. Except as provided by Rule 37.49 or Rule 37.57, before accepting a plea of guilty, the judge shall inform the defendant of the following:
(1) The nature of the charge to which the plea is offered, the mandatory minimum penalty provided by law, if any, and the maximum possible penalty provided by law; and
(2) The defendant's right to be represented by an attorney and that the judge will appoint an attorney for the defendant if defendant is indigent and if it appears to the judge that there would possibly be a jail sentence upon conviction; and
(3) That if defendant pleads guilty there will not be a trial of any kind, so that by pleading guilty the defendant waives the right to a trial, and
(4) The defendant's right to plead not guilty or to persist in that plea if it has already been made.

The judge shall further inform defendant of any right to a jury trial, the right to present witnesses on behalf of the defendant, that defendant has the right to confront and cross-examine witnesses against defendant, that defendant has the right to testify and that nobody can compel defendant to testify.

The judge shall determine whether the defendant understands, upon oral or written information provided, the matters presented.

(c) Ensuring That the Plea is Voluntary. Except as provided by Rule 37.49 or Rule 37.57, the judge shall not accept a plea of guilty unless the judge finds that said plea is knowingly, voluntarily, and intelligently made and not the result of force or threats or promises.

(d) Waiver of Counsel. If the defendant would possibly receive a jail sentence upon conviction, the judge shall determine, before accepting the defendant's plea of guilty or not guilty, that the defendant has made a knowledgeable, voluntary, and intelligent waiver of the right to assistance of counsel.

Prior to making the finding, the judge shall review with the defendant a written waiver of counsel.

If the judge finds the waiver is knowingly, voluntarily, and intelligently made, the waiver shall be signed by the defendant, witnessed by the judge or the clerk at the judge's direction, and appropriately recorded. The written waiver of counsel shall be substantially in the form as set out in Form 37.C.

(e) Plea Agreement Procedure. The judge shall not participate in any plea agreement discussions, but after a plea agreement has been reached the judge may discuss the agreement with the attorneys including any alternative that would be acceptable.
(1) In General.The prosecutor and the attorney for the defendant or the defendant acting pro se may engage in discussions with a view toward reaching an agreement that, upon the entering of a plea of guilty to a charged ordinance violation or to a lesser or related ordinance violation, the prosecutor will do any of the following:
(A) Dismiss other charges; or
(B) Make a recommendation, or agree not to oppose the defendant's request for a particular sentence with the understanding that such recommendation or request shall not be binding on the judge; or
(C) Agree that a specific sentence is the appropriate disposition of the case; or
(D) Make a recommendation for, or agree on, another appropriate disposition of the case.
(2) Disclosure of Plea Agreement – Court's Actions Thereon. If the parties have reached a plea agreement, the judge shall require the disclosure of the agreement in open court or, on a showing of good cause, in camera at the time the plea is offered. If the agreement is pursuant to Rule 37.58(e)(1)(B), the judge shall advise the defendant that the plea cannot be withdrawn if the judge does not adopt the recommendation or request. Thereupon the judge may accept or reject the agreement or may defer a decision as to the acceptance or rejection until there has been an opportunity to consider the presentence report.
(3) Acceptance of a Plea Agreement. If the judge accepts the plea agreement, the judge shall inform the defendant that the judge will embody in the judgment and sentence the disposition provided for in the plea agreement.
(4) Rejection of a Plea Agreement. If the judge rejects the plea agreement, the judge shall inform the parties of this fact, advise the defendant personally in open court or, on a showing of good cause, in camera that the judge is not bound by the plea agreement, afford the defendant the opportunity to then withdraw the plea if it is based on an agreement pursuant to Rule 37.58(e)(1)(A), (C), or (D), and advise the defendant that if the defendant persists in the guilty plea, the disposition of the case may be less favorable to the defendant than that contemplated by the plea agreement.
(5) Inadmissibility of Pleas, Offers of Pleas, and Related Statements.Except as otherwise provided in this subdivision, evidence of a plea of guilty, later withdrawn, or of offer to plead guilty to the ordinance violation charged or of any other ordinance violation, or of statements made in connection with, and relevant to, any of the foregoing pleas or offers, is not admissible in any civil or criminal proceeding against the person who made the plea or offer. However, evidence of a statement made in connection with, and relevant to a plea of guilty, later withdrawn, or an offer to plead guilty to the ordinance violation charged or any other ordinance violation, is admissible in a criminal proceeding for perjury or false statement if the statement was made by the defendant under oath and in the presence of counsel.

(f) Determining Accuracy of Plea. The judge shall not enter a judgment upon a plea of guilty without first determining that there is a factual basis for the plea.

(Adopted May 14, 1985, eff. Jan. 1, 1986. Amended Dec. 23, 2003, eff. July 1, 2004; June 29, 2018, eff. Jan. 1, 2019.)
{Formerly titled "Plea Negotiations."}


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The above is never overlooked, forgotten, or ignored.

As noted, it is mandated via state law.

As far as federal cases, mandated as above.

If a defendant says it wasn't done, that could NEVER be the case.

Why?

The defendant would have been long ago released from custody, the conviction would have been overturned.

Supreme Court Rules - Rule 37 - Statutory and Ordinance Violations and Violation Bureaus: Pleas
....
 
Brian Thomas said:
Back in 2001 I was sentenced to 10 years in the Missouri DOC.. I am not going to explain all the crazy details, but I was informed I should plead guilty instead of going to trial, as I did a LOT of stupid stuff back then when I was 20yrs old and dumb, but apart of the plea agreement was to plead to a few charges that I WASNT good for, but being young and dumb I trusted my lawyer and I plead guilty…

Those charges that I WASNT good for is the possession and promoting child pornography, again I'm not going into why and how I am NOT guilty of those charges as I believe that is irrelevant with my main question here..

My question is, is it the law for my attorney to let me know EXACTLY what I am pleading guilty to AND isn't it their job to also tell me I would have to register as a sex offender? I KNOW he didn't, but isn't it also by law that the judge was supposed to also tell me I would then be a registered sex offender and have to register for life? I would certainly hope that would be the law.. Basically if I did know I would have to be placed on the registry I certainly would NOT have plead guilty! I would have went to trial and fought those 2 cases..

If my question comes out to be that they were SUPPOSED to by law inform me of that, isn't there anything at all I can do about it?

Again, not going to bore this post with all details, but I WILL be removed from the registry list within next few months, so there's that, but being on that list has literally altered my life drastically and I should have never ever been put on that list, so I would like to know if I have any case at all going after the state..
Click to expand...
I know this post is a little old but, considering there are 10's of thousands of sex offenders who have to register for crimes they committed before the registry existed, I think you will have no success making a claim against your attorney. As well you should be keenly aware that being removed from the registry does extremely little to provide relief even in your home state in some circumstances. Pacific Legal Foundation is working on a case to challenge SORNA being applied to registrants who are no longer required to register by their states of conviction. So SORNA says ah, ah, no, no, you still have to register even if you can not. SORNA is supreme. And opf course with almost absolute certainty you will still have to register in any state you remain in for more than the statutory time implemented. If you register for 25 years in MA, and want to move to VA, VA will make you register for another 25 or life. And so forth. Don't get to comfortable because as the laws change, AND THEY ARE, they will apply them to you immediately with or without your knowledge. In one state they implemented a residency restriction on one day and immediately went out and started arresting people in violation. Its likely those people didn't even know the law was passed or even in the works. So keep on your toes, that is if you are still free.
 

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