Reasonable time to wait for offer under KY Lemon Law

[Ollonii]

Jurisdiction

Kentucky

As I understand it, under the Kentucky Lemon Law, a vehicle is a "Lemon" if it's been out of service for 30 days, or more, for the same issue. In my case, the car has been at the dealership for 53 days so far (and we've only owned it for 107 days). The most recent "repair attempt" has lasted 34 days and counting. The problem was first reported 2 days after we bought the car.

Although I did not inform the manufacturer by certified mail that my vehicle is a lemon, the national customer service center representative dealing with the case for the last two months has acknowledged the car qualifies as a lemon per the KY statute and has said they will buy the car back per the statute. The problem is the endless delays - the manufacturer is just giving us the run-around.

What is a "reasonable" time to wait for an offer from them? Is there no obligation on their part to act within some time period? The law says I have to go through two rounds of mediation (two offers) but if they don't respond in a timely fashion, what recourse do I have? We paid for the car outright and can't afford to buy another car without getting our money back.

Thank for any advice.

 

[Zigner]

Do NOT rely on anyone else to comply with requirements that are placed on YOU. If YOU need to notify the manufacturer in writing, then YOU do so by certified mail, return receipt requested.

 

[Ollonii]

Do NOT rely on anyone else to comply with requirements that are placed on YOU. If YOU need to notify the manufacturer in writing, then YOU do so by certified mail, return receipt requested.

Fair enough. Still, what is a reasonable response time?

 

[Zigner]

Fair enough. Still, what is a reasonable response time?

30 days

 

[Ollonii]

30 days

Per interaction? Wow.

Thank you.

 

[adjusterjack]

As I understand it, under the Kentucky Lemon Law, a vehicle is a "Lemon" if it's been out of service for 30 days, or more, for the same issue.

You appear to be correct about the time line. See 367.842(3):

Kentucky Lemon Law Statutes 367.840 KRS to 367.846 & 367.860 to 367.870 (autopedia.com)

However, according to the statute 357.842(2):

It shall be an affirmative defense to any claim under this section that:
(a) The nonconformity, defect, or condition does not substantially impair the use, value, or safety of the motor vehicle;

What is the issue and how does it substantially impair the use, value, or safety of the vehicle?

Provide facts, not feelings.

Although I did not inform the manufacturer by certified mail that my vehicle is a lemon, the national customer service center representative dealing with the case for the last two months has acknowledged the car qualifies as a lemon per the KY statute and has said they will buy the car back per the statute. The problem is the endless delays - the manufacturer is just giving us the run-around.

So far, I don't see anything in the statute that requires written notice by certified mail, but it would probably be a good idea to send a letter demanding immediate satisfaction.

Keep in mind your option for contacting the state's attorney general under 367.845. I would certainly do that if I were you.

 

[Zigner]

So far, I don't see anything in the statute that requires written notice by certified mail, but it would probably be a good idea to send a letter demanding immediate satisfaction.

The law requires written notice. It is generally difficult to prove that one sent written notice without proof of sending.

 

[Ollonii]

The law requires written notice. It is generally difficult to prove that one sent written notice without proof of sending.

Yes, I believe I do have to notify the manufacturer in writing. I requested the appropriate address from both the dealer and the manufacturer. Although both said they'd get back to me with it, neither did. I have since driven 50 miles to pick up a booklet at the dealership and will write today.

You also asked about the issue. The problem is that the vehicle randomly resets the dashboard instrumentation and quite a few of the console systems. Some console systems are also then turned off. In particular, the climate control system is reset an turned off. This usually happens when the car has been turned off for awhile - about 75% of the mornings but it has happened as many as 3 times in a day, that I've seen. I've never noticed it happen while driving, but I've never driven more that about 50 miles per trip in it.

Some might say that this is not a safety issue but I think it is for elderly people or those with young children or pets. Certainly one of the reasons for buying this car (or package of features) was the advertised Remote Start feature. What is the purpose of Remote Start if it's not to manage cabin conditions before using the car in extreme heat or cold? Certainly, this issue, if revealed to a customer, would significantly affect the value of the vehicle.

In any case, doesn't advertising and promoting the feature create an implied warranty, even if there is no express warranty? And doesn't failure to redress the issue in a reasonable period (30 days, according to the law) mean the manufacturer is in breach of warranty?

Finally, I note that the law stipulates:

"To require manufacturers to provide, in as expeditious a manner as possible..."

How should this be interpreted and has it already been adjudicated?

Thanks. I'm just trying to understand the law. Aside from my role in this case, it's an interesting case study to me.

 

[adjusterjack]

I'm just trying to understand the law.

What you have to understand is that a "law" doesn't "prevent" anybody from failing to comply with it. All it does is give you a method of seeking redress which is often by suing, unless, as with this law, the law requires another process in lieu of a lawsuit.

Either way, at this point, you would be wise to consult with a lemon law attorney.

 

[Ollonii]

What you have to understand is that a "law" doesn't "prevent" anybody from failing to comply with it. All it does is give you a method of seeking redress which is often by suing, unless, as with this law, the law requires another process in lieu of a lawsuit.

Either way, at this point, you would be wise to consult with a lemon law attorney.

Yes. I get it. I guess I was really wondering if I have cause for an action or whether I have to take specific steps first.

I think your advice is sound. Thank you.

 

[Ollonii]

After what feels like ages but is actually a little over four months, I have a letter in hand from the manufacturer of a car I purchased new stating that they will repurchase the vehicle under the terms of Kentucky's Lemon Law. The case has been sent to, what I presume is, an independent arbitrator who will arrive at a repurchase price for my approval. I am not bound by this but the manufacturer is.

What I'm wondering is what is a normal settlement in Lemon Law cases? Not the number (which will vary widely with details), but the types of costs (or losses) usually considered for reimbursement? I'm particularly interested in what costs, or losses, are considered when cases have gone to litigation. Is there a way that I, a layman, can search and review adjudicated and settled cases in this area in Kentucky?

I certainly don't expect anyone to do my homework for me! I'm hoping some kind people with more knowledge that I might point me in the right direction(s) to learn for myself.

Thanks in advance.

 

[doucar]

After what feels like ages but is actually a little over four months, I have a letter in hand from the manufacturer of a car I purchased new stating that they will repurchase the vehicle under the terms of Kentucky's Lemon Law. The case has been sent to, what I presume is, an independent arbitrator who will arrive at a repurchase price for my approval. I am not bound by this but the manufacturer is.

What I'm wondering is what is a normal settlement in Lemon Law cases? Not the number (which will vary widely with details), but the types of costs (or losses) usually considered for reimbursement? I'm particularly interested in what costs, or losses, are considered when cases have gone to litigation. Is there a way that I, a layman, can search and review adjudicated and settled cases in this area in Kentucky?

I certainly don't expect anyone to do my homework for me! I'm hoping some kind people with more knowledge that I might point me in the right direction(s) to learn for myself.

Thanks in advance.

I have not read the KY lemon law, but it should outline what damages you can recover.

 

[Ollonii]

Yes, thanks. So, the law says:

367.842 (9) A court may award reasonable attorney's fees to a prevailing plaintiff.
367.843 Action for relief by purchaser.
Any person who purchases a motor vehicle and thereby suffers any ascertainable loss of money or property, real or personal, as a result of a violation of KRS 367.842, may bring an action under the provisions of KRS 367.220 for relief. (bold italics are mine)

And I can't find 367.220.

So it's the highlighted section I'm curious about. I've seen summaries of the law that are more specific, such as "all costs including, license, taxes and fees", but I don't see that in the text of the law. Where did these inclusions come from? I assumed they must have been awarded in prior judgements so there was precedent.

I've been trying to search Google Scholar. Lots of interesting reading and precedent back to 1978, but I haven't found specifics yet.

 

[adjusterjack]

367.842 (9) A court may award reasonable attorney's fees to a prevailing plaintiff.
367.843 Action for relief by purchaser.
Any person who purchases a motor vehicle and thereby suffers any ascertainable loss of money or property, real or personal, as a result of a violation of KRS 367.842, may bring an action under the provisions of KRS 367.220 for relief. (bold italics are mine)

Now read the parts that I show in bold type.

That means you go to court and prove, with evidence, not just sayso, that you have ascertainable monetary damages beyond just the buyback of the vehicle.

My guess is that you don't know how to do that (since you are here asking about it) and would have to hire an attorney.

So, please explain, in dollar amounts, the nature of the monetary damages you have incurred so we can see if it's worth hiring an attorney.

 

[Ollonii]

Yes. I get it. I guess I was really wondering if I have cause for an action or whether I have to take specific steps first.

I think your advice is sound. Thank you.

Now read the parts that I show in bold type.

That means you go to court and prove, with evidence, not just sayso, that you have ascertainable monetary damages beyond just the buyback of the vehicle.

My guess is that you don't know how to do that (since you are here asking about it) and would have to hire an attorney.

So, please explain, in dollar amounts, the nature of the monetary damages you have incurred so we can see if it's worth hiring an attorney.

I'm sorry, I don't know how this ended up online. Clumsy fingers.

 

[Ollonii]

Wow. Tough crowd. My apologies to the moderator who moved this thread. I saw this as an entirely different question. My mistake.

 

[Ollonii]

Thank you for your reply.

Well, my guess is that your guess is incorrect, but that's beside the point. I can easily calculate and prove costs, losses and damages as a result of this incident using well established methodology from: Law journals and cases; Finance journals and legal cases; and Economics journals and law cases.

My question had nothing to do with how, but rather what.

I would rather not litigate this as I see no upside for me (a few thousand dollars, maybe, over months and months of wasted time) or the manufacturer. But that doesn't mean I should be uninformed about what the courts have accepted or rejected in the past, does it? In order to reasonably evaluate the fairness (in the eyes of the court, not academically) of an offer, by either side, I was simply asking for direction about where to look for precedent.

And I wasn't actually asking for advice on whether to litigate. I can work out expected value as well as anyone. But so can they. My questions are primarily about negotiation - knowing the range of possible valuations and trying to find an equitable middle ground.

I'm not sure what I said to elicit such harsh judgement about my understanding from you, but please accept my apologies. I wasn't trying to waste anyone's time.

Thanks again.

 

[justblue]

Huh? No one was "harsh" with you in any way.

 

[Ollonii]

All I can say is that, if any professional spoke to me that way, it'd be the last time we spoke.

And while I understand there's a huge reputation difference here, I'm also surprised that a law professional would respond to what they assumed I was asking, rather than what I asked.

I thought this was a place to ask about legal issues from people who have knowledge. In which case, why make such a point of talking down to people who ask questions?

If it's meant for legal professionals to speak with one another - that's fair. But please make it clear.

My last comment is about why professionals have forsaken courtesy in their dealings with others? As far as I can see, there's no upside to that for anyone and plenty of downside for us all.

Thanks for everyone's advice. I shall retire now.

 

[justblue]

All I can say is that, if any professional spoke to me that way, it'd be the last time we spoke.

And while I understand there's a huge reputation difference here, I'm also surprised that a law professional would respond to what they assumed I was asking, rather than what I asked.

I thought this was a place to ask about legal issues from people who have knowledge. In which case, why make such a point of talking down to people who ask questions?

If it's meant for legal professionals to speak with one another - that's fair. But please make it clear.

My last comment is about why professionals have forsaken courtesy in their dealings with others? As far as I can see, there's no upside to that for anyone and plenty of downside for us all.

Thanks for everyone's advice. I shall retire now.

I reread the thread and still do not see a harsh posting to you on it.
The guidance that was posted by the volunteers of this site was direct...but in no way rude or harsh. Perhaps you are thin skinned and require people to use gentle and flowery language when dealing with you.