Differences with wife on issues related to in-laws (California)

[pcgo]

Jurisdiction

California

Me and my wife have been married for over 35 years. We have 2 kids and both have moved out and are well settled.
We live in California.

For several years, my wife has been picking up fights related to my supporting my old mother, who is also legally blind (has
macular degeneration). My dad passed away in 2012. In 2012 I asked my mom to come and stay with us till she can get on her feet.
My wife ill treated my mom so much that my mom decided not to stay with us anymore.
Even if I go and see my mom, my wife doesn't like it and always picks up fights over this.

Financially I have paid for all expenses - household expenses (including mortgage), children's education, travel etc.
Basically my wife has never paid a single bill for any of the family expenses, though she is a teacher with decent salary.
For the last nearly 30 years, I have been
giving a sizable pocket money every month to cover for groceries. I always felt that it's still savings whether she saves or if I save.
I thought it would complement my investment style, which has been more aggressive, though I have done reasonably well.

Now, my wife is very mad at me for supporting my mom. She is threatening to leave the house and asking me to pay for her rent.
I am already retired and I told her I can't afford to pay rent.
Can she leave the house without my knowledge?
She is also threatening to file legal separation. Not sure what this means.
Under these circumstances what are the options available to me?
Thank you!

 

[army judge]

Can she leave the house without my knowledge?

Yes, your spouse can leave the home you share anytime the feeling trips her fancy.

On the other hand, you're free to return the favor.

She is also threatening to file legal separation. Not sure what this means.

What a person says means very little, however, what is said can become very painful when words turn into deeds!!!

Under these circumstances what are the options available to me?

You can try to ignore the obvious outcome, while hoping for things to improve.

However, most people would opt for DIVORCE.

It'll cost you some money, to rid yourself of a troublesome, quarrelsome partner.

That said, peace, calm, quiet is worth the costs to rid yourself of a failing marriage.

 

[pcgo]

Yes, your spouse can leave the home you share anytime the feeling trips her fancy.

On the other hand, you're free to return the favor.





What a person says means very little, however, what is said can become very painful when words turn into deeds!!!



You can try to ignore the obvious outcome, while hoping for things to improve.

However, most people would opt for DIVORCE.

It'll cost you some money, to rid yourself of a troublesome, quarrelsome partner.

That said, peace, calm, quiet is worth the costs to rid yourself of a failing marriagIn

In case of legal separation, what happens to the Living Trust, which has most of the large value assets?
Would our kids be impacted as the assets may need to be sold off?
Is legal separation, unilateral, meaning if my wife decides to go for it. I have no chance to stop or defend?
Since my wife has never paid a single bill,would this count as part of her 'proceeds' in case of legal separation?

 

[welkin]

Me and my wife have been married for over 35 years. We have 2 kids and both have moved out and are well settled.
We live in California.

For several years, my wife has been picking up fights related to my supporting my old mother, who is also legally blind (has
macular degeneration). My dad passed away in 2012. In 2012 I asked my mom to come and stay with us till she can get on her feet.
My wife ill treated my mom so much that my mom decided not to stay with us anymore.
Even if I go and see my mom, my wife doesn't like it and always picks up fights over this.

Financially I have paid for all expenses - household expenses (including mortgage), children's education, travel etc.
Basically my wife has never paid a single bill for any of the family expenses, though she is a teacher with decent salary.
For the last nearly 30 years, I have been
giving a sizable pocket money every month to cover for groceries. I always felt that it's still savings whether she saves or if I save.
I thought it would complement my investment style, which has been more aggressive, though I have done reasonably well.

Now, my wife is very mad at me for supporting my mom. She is threatening to leave the house and asking me to pay for her rent.
I am already retired and I told her I can't afford to pay rent.
Can she leave the house without my knowledge?
She is also threatening to file legal separation. Not sure what this means.
Under these circumstances what are the options available to me?
Thank you!

California is a community property state, meaning that all assets and debts acquired during the marriage belong to both of you equally. It doesn't matter who paid what for what during the marriage. With some exceptions, any dissolution of the marriage will divide the property, assets, and liabilities equally between you.

In case of legal separation, what happens to the Living Trust, which has most of the large value assets?

Nothing happens to the assets in a living trust while you are both alive. But you may want to check the terms of the trust with an attorney.

A legal separation agreement will dictate the terms of support and obligations if you choose to go that route. There too, you would want to consult with an attorney to have it perfected.

 

[adjusterjack]

In case of legal separation, what happens to the Living Trust, which has most of the large value assets?

A court can decide on an asset division that could compel you take items out of the trust and/or sell them.

Would our kids be impacted as the assets may need to be sold off?

Well, they would no longer exist so there would be nothing to inherit. You would likely have to create a new trust for your share of the items.

Is legal separation, unilateral, meaning if my wife decides to go for it. I have no chance to stop or defend?

Read this:

Legal Separation In California: Laws & How to File

Legal separation in California is similar to the divorce process, but retains the legal status of being married. This guide describes who can get a legal separation, why you might want one and how to obtain one.

www.forbes.com

Since my wife has never paid a single bill, would this count as part of her 'proceeds' in case of legal separation?

Here is more information about CA community property.

Property and debts in a divorce | California Courts | Self Help Guide

A judge has to approve how you’ll divide your property and debts Part of your divorce involves dividing your property and debts. Property is anything you can buy or sell or has value. For example, a house, car, or furniture. It’s also things like a bank account, pension, 401k, or stocks.

selfhelp.courts.ca.gov

 

[zddoodah]

Financially I have paid for all expenses

Using community property funds (e.g., either of your earnings during the marriage), right?

Can she leave the house without my knowledge?

Unless you keep her chained up, she has the ability to leave any time she wants. I honestly don't know what you're asking here. Your wife is free to come and go as she pleases - just like you.

She is also threatening to file legal separation. Not sure what this means.

Legal separation is an alternative to divorce. The court makes orders concerning spousal support, property division (and, if applicable, child custody, visitation and support). However, the marriage remains intact. It's typically used by folks with religious objections to divorce or who want to preserve employment-related medical insurance for the non-employee spouse.

Under these circumstances what are the options available to me?

You can file for divorce yourself, you can try and fix your marital problems, or you can wait for your wife to do something.

In case of legal separation, what happens to the Living Trust, which has most of the large value assets?

We have no way of knowing because we haven't read the trust documentation. Does the trust instrument say what will happen in the event of divorce?

Would our kids be impacted as the assets may need to be sold off?

Based on the limited facts you've provided, there is no reason to believe that your adult children would be directly impacted by your divorce.

Is legal separation, unilateral, meaning if my wife decides to go for it. I have no chance to stop or defend?

If she seeks a legal separation and you don't want one, the action will be converted to a dissolution proceeding (divorce).

Since my wife has never paid a single bill,would this count as part of her 'proceeds' in case of legal separation?

Not entirely sure what you're asking, but the mechanics of your finances aren't particularly relevant. Unless you have a prenuptial agreement that says otherwise, your earnings during the marriage (including any proceeds from your earnings) are community property (same with hers).

 

[pcgo]

I am leaning towards contacting a marriage counsellor. But my wife doesn't want.
So, I am stuck with either waiting for her next move or for me to take proactively.
She wants to move out of the house but wants me to pay for her rent. As it is I am paying for 100% of monthly expenses and I can't afford to pay her rent. She is a teacher and makes more than enough to cover her rent and other personal expenses. But she doesn't want to do that and instead demanding that I pay her rent.

 

[zddoodah]

I think you should consider consulting with a divorce attorney, even if you don't start the process. Among other things, you should discuss the extent to which you can/should start separating your finances.

 

[adjusterjack]

I am leaning towards contacting a marriage counsellor. But my wife doesn't want.

Your marriage is over.

"The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it."
― Omar Khayyám

So, I am stuck with either waiting for her next move or for me to take proactively.

Being the first to file for divorce may give you some control over what happens.

She wants to move out of the house but wants me to pay for her rent.

You've heard of the word "no."

start separating your finances.

Yeah, you should start doing that before she grabs it all.

 

[pcgo]

The funny thing is she is completely dependent on me (for the last 35 years) on everything - her car services, auto insurance, health insurance, telephone bill, groceries etc.
If she moves out of the house, do I have the power to stop paying for her telephone, auto insurance, health insurance etc? Or is it illegal and I have to continue to support her financially?

 

[zddoodah]

The funny thing is she is completely dependent on me (for the last 35 years) on everything - her car services, auto insurance, health insurance, telephone bill, groceries etc.

I'm not sure why you shared this, but it makes me wonder what she's been doing with the money she earns as a teacher.

If she moves out of the house, do I have the power to stop paying for her telephone, auto insurance, health insurance etc? Or is it illegal and I have to continue to support her financially?

There are two answers to this. California Family Code 720 states that spouses have a mutual obligation to support each other. This is, as you might imagine, more of an aspirational law than one with any teeth. Nevertheless, it exists. Beyond that, until a court says otherwise, you don't have any obligation to pay her bills.

 

[army judge]

The funny thing is she is completely dependent on me (for the last 35 years) on everything - her car services, auto insurance, health insurance, telephone bill, groceries etc.

People are very clever.
Some people appear to play BOOBOO THE FOOL, to confuse Jerry The Genius.
The plot usually works like a charm.

Know this, mate, she ain't no fool.
You, on the other hand, you've been schooled.
Time to lawyer up, file for divorce, set yourself free!!!!

 

[justblue]

The funny thing is she is completely dependent on me (for the last 35 years) on everything - her car services, auto insurance, health insurance, telephone bill, groceries etc.
If she moves out of the house, do I have the power to stop paying for her telephone, auto insurance, health insurance etc? Or is it illegal and I have to continue to support her financially?

Zzdoodah made a good point...What is your wife doing with her income? Do you know?

 

[pcgo]

I'm not sure why you shared this, but it makes me wonder what she's been doing with the money she earns as a teacher.

I have never questioned that. But I do know that she is conservative in her investment and keep her savings (or is it earnings) in her bank account (earning close to 0%).
Moreover I have been giving her pocket money every month for the last 30+ years.
To be fair, she does help our children (for example, with downpayment for their home mortgage).

On the other hand, she questions or doesn't like my investment style though our networth has grown multiple folds. She always complains that I am 'throwing' away my money instead of keeping it in the bank!

There are two answers to this. California Family Code 720 states that spouses have a mutual obligation to support each other. This is, as you might imagine, more of an aspirational law than one with any teeth. Nevertheless, it exists. Beyond that, until a court says otherwise, you don't have any obligation to pay her bills.

I have learnt a big lesson out of this. Even if she reconciles and decides to stay, I shouldnt be focussed on acquiring wealth (for our future and our children's future) spending several hours working, even at 60+ years!

 

[army judge]

Zzdoodah made a good point...What is your wife doing with her income? Do you know?

My guess, as demonstrated below.

 

[Tax Counsel]

What your wife may not realize is that under CA law, there is a duty for an adult child to provide for an indigent parent. CA Family Code section 4400 states: "4400. Except as otherwise provided by law, an adult child shall, to the extent of the adult child's ability, support a parent who is in need and unable to self-maintain by work." Your obligation isn't quite as sweeping as that section makes it sound. You'd want to consult a family law attorney about just what you are obligated to do, perhaps at the same time you discuss your marital situation. I don't know your wife, but to the extent she's upset you are paying for your mother's care, perhaps telling her you are legally obligated to do that might change her attitude.

 

[pcgo]

What your wife may not realize is that under CA law, there is a duty for an adult child to provide for an indigent parent. CA Family Code section 4400 states: "4400. Except as otherwise provided by law, an adult child shall, to the extent of the adult child's ability, support a parent who is in need and unable to self-maintain by work." Your obligation isn't quite as sweeping as that section makes it sound. You'd want to consult a family law attorney about just what you are obligated to do, perhaps at the same time you discuss your marital situation. I don't know your wife, but to the extent she's upset you are paying for your mother's care, perhaps telling her you are legally obligated to do that might change her attitude.

But my mom lives outside the U.S and is not an U.S citizen. Not sure if this changes CA code 4400.
Moreover my wife is not upset about financial support (in fact this is negligible, as mom can support herself financially).
For my wife it's the moral support and visiting her often, is what upsets her. She wants mom to "rot in" there, which is such a mean attitude. She forgets that because of my mom, I am in this world and because of me are our kids.

 

[pcgo]

I tried asking my wife to meeting with a marriage counsellor so that we can begin the process of healing and get back to our lives. But she flatly refused saying that she has already started the process of "legal separation". She said the only thing she wants is 50% of all our wealth.

I have the following questions:
1. At what point do I hire an attorney? If so, what wold be the role of the attorney - to defend the legal separation or to make sure the assets get divided equally.
2. What happens to my retirement assets ? She is below the retirement age. Does this mean I have to liquidate them and pay 50% taxes and give her the rest.
3. I am retired without a job, but do freelance and make some income (inconsistent though). Do I have to pay her 50% of my income every month? for how long? Similarly my wife works as a teacher (more stable). Does she have to pay me 50% of her salary?
4. If she keeps our primary home, does it mean I have to move out? Would she pay rent (which is expensive in our area)?
5. Assuming the legal separation process has started, how many months does this take in California?
6.What would be the approx cost an attorney would charge in CA?

 

[army judge]

I tried asking my wife to meeting with a marriage counsellor so that we can begin the process of healing and get back to our lives. But she flatly refused saying that she has already started the process of "legal separation". She said the only thing she wants is 50% of all our wealth.

I have the following questions:
1. At what point do I hire an attorney? If so, what wold be the role of the attorney - to defend the legal separation or to make sure the assets get divided equally.
2. What happens to my retirement assets ? She is below the retirement age. Does this mean I have to liquidate them and pay 50% taxes and give her the rest.
3. I am retired without a job, but do freelance and make some income (inconsistent though). Do I have to pay her 50% of my income every month? for how long? Similarly my wife works as a teacher (more stable). Does she have to pay me 50% of her salary?
4. If she keeps our primary home, does it mean I have to move out? Would she pay rent (which is expensive in our area)?
5. Assuming the legal separation process has started, how many months does this take in California?
6.What would be the approx cost an attorney would charge in CA?

You should make an appointment with three or four family law attorneys located near your residence.

Most attorneys offer prospective clients an initial consultation free of charge or obligation.

During the appointment, ask all the questions you've posted above.

You won't be able to resolve the matter for free from strangers, anymore than you could resolve a severe medical issue using one of the hundreds of online medical websites.

Just as you seek REAL MEDICAL services in person from a licensed physician, that's exactly how you seek real legal advice.

Good luck.

PS: There's no legitimate way to force your spouse to seek counseling if she chooses not to go.

There is a legal way to secure a divorce, ask the attorneys you'll soon be meeting.

 

[zddoodah]

1. At what point do I hire an attorney? If so, what wold be the role of the attorney - to defend the legal separation or to make sure the assets get divided equally.

To quote Mr. Sulu, "Now would be a good time." Your attorney will represent your interests, advocate on your behalf, and file necessary paperwork in a timely manner. We don't know much about your assets, but it seems like you have a fair amount of money in investments. You want to ensure those are divided appropriately. Also, are you agreeable to a legal separation? If not, then your attorney will file paperwork to that effect and have the case converted to one for dissolution of marriage.

2. What happens to my retirement assets ? She is below the retirement age. Does this mean I have to liquidate them and pay 50% taxes and give her the rest.

It's possible you may have to liquidate, or you might have payment obligations over time. It's not possible for us to speak intelligently without knowing the full extent of assets.

Do I have to pay her 50% of my income every month? for how long? Similarly my wife works as a teacher (more stable). Does she have to pay me 50% of her salary?

It is not possible for us to determine the extent to which either of you might have to pay spousal support to the other. Given the length of your marriage, lifetime support is a possibility.

If she keeps our primary home, does it mean I have to move out? Would she pay rent (which is expensive in our area)?

Again, it's difficult/impossible to answer questions about the disposition of a specific asset without knowing the totality of the relevant facts and circumstances. If your wife gets exclusive possession of your marital home, yes, you'd have to move out. No, neither of you is going to pay the other's rent. Beyond that, there's too much unknown.

5. Assuming the legal separation process has started, how many months does this take in California?

Depends on lots of factors, including how busy the courts are in your county and the extent to which you fight over asset/debt division and spousal support.

6.What would be the approx cost an attorney would charge in CA?

Depending on your location and whom you hire, probably $200-500/hr.