DCF laws?

Discussion in 'Child Custody & Visitation' started by metsmom, Apr 3, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. metsmom

    metsmom New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I hope this is the right place for these questions, so here I go:

    I recently read online that if someone calls the child abuse hotline and states that the child in your care is under serious harm that DCF can remove your children before a formal investigation, this goes out to anyone with knowledge of this, is it true or false?

    Can DCF take your children from daycare or school without your conset and without notifying you first?

    Is it true when people say that many times DCF takes children from their homes because of money the foster business will receive?


    I am not under investigation and never have been, but the spiteful nature of my ex and his parents leaves me in constant worry that DCF will be called (with no actual abuse or mistreatment occurring) and my child will be forced to spend any time at all in the presence of strangers and not having her own bed to sleep in and family to be with, any tips on what to do and what the chances are of that happening?
     
  2. BayState

    BayState Moderator

    Messages:
    730
    Likes Received:
    50
    Trophy Points:
    0

    It's POSSIBLE if the person reporting abuse is a mandated reporter..ie...Doctor, Nurse, Teacher, Social Worker, police...etc...

    If not a MR than it is unlikely to happen.

    That said:

    I have little faith in CPS. The whole system needs to be "fixed".

    Go to

    www.massoutrage.com

    You will be shocked at some of the cases.:mad:
     
  3. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

    Messages:
    17,714
    Likes Received:
    1,746
    Trophy Points:
    113

    Notify the school your child attends that no one is to speak with your child without you being present.

    That only applies if the "nobody" doesn't have a warrant.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  4. jharris352

    jharris352 New Member

    Messages:
    2,837
    Likes Received:
    343
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I have less faith in the DCF system than Army but let me tell you some of the good and bad news you face.

    1. DCF has very little power unless you cooperate with them. Even if you are innocent of any abuse or neglect they will turn and twist what they can to make it look bad on you.

    2. You should notify your children's school in writing and each teacher that your child is never to speak to anyone from the government without your permission and an attorney present.

    3. DCF can not require that you let them in your house, can not require that you let them talk to your child, can not force you to take drug tests or anything else, only a judge can.

    4. If DCF finds that your child is in "imminent danger" they can apply for and will likely get a temporary custody order.

    5. Within 72 hours you will be granted a Probable Cause hearing. If you have not talked to DCF or provided them with information it is unlikely that they will have probable cause.

    6. Even if they do find PC they then have 5 days to file a petition of Deprivation against you and 10 days to have a hearing to prove by Clear and Convincing Evidence that you are no providing proper parental care and control over your child and that your acts or omissions have cause harm in the form of neglect or abuse to befall your child. Again, if you have not helped them it is a hard case to make.

    7. At the first sign of trouble, CONTACT AN ATTORNEY. Tell DCF not to talk with your child or you without your attorney present. If they show up at your door, even if they bring police, ask for a warrant and if they do not have it do not let them in. Give them your attorney's card and tell them to get off your property until they have a warrant.

    8. I can not stress enough: Do not let them in your house, Do not talk to them, Tell them to leave your property, Ignore their threats, and HAVE AN ATTORNEY ON SPEED DIAL.

    If you are hurting your child, STOP.

    Good luck, keep DCF out of your life.
     
  5. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

    Messages:
    17,714
    Likes Received:
    1,746
    Trophy Points:
    113

    My good friend and colleague, jharris352, has provided you with excellent LEGAL advice and counsel.

    I wholeheartedly endorse and second the sound legal advice rendered by jharris352.

    The advice, jharris352, gave you is worth at least $2,500; if we had given it to you in our offices.

    You received it for free.

    If I were you, OP, I'd follow the excellent, wise, and splendid advice of counselor and attorney at law, jharris352, to the letter!
     
  6. jharris352

    jharris352 New Member

    Messages:
    2,837
    Likes Received:
    343
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Army I do appreciate your recommendation but I must correct one thing: I gave up being Attorney at Law when I left Virginia and now I'm Poster At Law with a great deal of legal knowledge. I no longer am on the Bar.
     
  7. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

    Messages:
    17,714
    Likes Received:
    1,746
    Trophy Points:
    113

    You went to law school.
    That makes you an attorney in my book.

    Or, you can join me.

    I call myself an attorney-outlaw.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  8. jharris352

    jharris352 New Member

    Messages:
    2,837
    Likes Received:
    343
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ok, I love that term. I'm an Attorney Outlaw from now on!
     
  9. Duranie

    Duranie Moderator

    Messages:
    4,417
    Likes Received:
    202
    Trophy Points:
    0

    There are problems with CPS of course but for every parent who claims their kids were unjustly removed. there are 2 or 3 cases where kids are not removed when they should be. Kids die because they are returned to parents who should not have them. If you honestly are a good parent then you have little to worry about. you cannot control what your ex "might" do. If CPS for some reason does show up at your door because of a complaint, whether its legit or not, shutting the door in their face and not cooperating is a really good way to make sure they will not leave you alone. Sure you can have an attorney on speed dial, if you have $$$ to pay for an attorney instead of just cooperating with CPS and they just might close the case anyways, then do that. I am a CASA and EVERY case I have been on the child was removed for a GREAT reason. rights terminated on my first case..termination is possible on this one too. CPS, at least in AZ, with few exceptions, just does not remove kids for the hell of it.

    OK my rant is done.
     
  10. jharris352

    jharris352 New Member

    Messages:
    2,837
    Likes Received:
    343
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Duraine, I'm going to kindly agree with you that CPS is a necessary evil. I'm going to assume you are a decent Casa because I've seen your posts.

    But when CPS fouls up, they do it big. You need an example? I don't like the FLDS but do you think CPS was justified in taking 410 children in Texas? That's a great example of the power hungry, over zealous, crap that CPS gets into. After 1 month of hundreds of families being torn apart they found less than 15 who had any reason at all for being removed.

    If those families did not have MONEY those children would have been ripped from their parents forever because of bias and prejudice and NOTHING ELSE.

    Cooperating with any investigative agency without the assistance of an attorney is DUMB. I know several casa's that are good people, I also know several who are armature busybodies who need their tin badge forcefully removed from their person. I just see the lies, corruption, and holier than thou BS from them too often.

    I hope you are a good Casa.
     
  11. Duranie

    Duranie Moderator

    Messages:
    4,417
    Likes Received:
    202
    Trophy Points:
    0

    CPS does foul up big time trust me I know. They either do NOT remove kids when they should (some huge cases out here and in the US of kids winding up dead that have previous contact with social services) OR the Walmart picture disaster out here in AZ. In the walmart case also the police and CPS acted inappropriately. Parents lie I do know that. Nobody will ever admit to abusing or molesting a kid so it is up to CPS and the courts to determine the truth. Just because a woman is able to reproduce doesn't mean she should. I am critical of CPS in the area that sometimes family reunification is BS. Much of the time these parents get their kids back and then again, lose them again. They clean up their act long enough to get their kids back and then back on the meth, a-hole boyfriend moves back in, etc. Sad.

    I am an UNPAID volunteer so with that said, why in the world did I become a CASA? Because I like kids and I'm sick of kids falling through the cracks of the social system. So I volunteer my valuable time so I can make sure kids gets mistreated? No way. Some CPS workers are totally worthless, they fight for family reunification even though mom is a meth head, but feel sorry for her. A CPS case worker in Tucson was romantically involved with the father she was investigating then of course she turned a blind eye to the abuse and was even mistreating the kids she was supposed to be helping. No surprise she was eventually fired.

    As you know, there are many many people that have kids that have NO business having kids. If there was no DCFS or CPS, what would we do with them? Leave them to be abused or killed? There are cracks in the system, how do we seal them? should CPS be ran by private organizations?

    I've only been a CASA for 2.5 years and so far EVERY case I have handled, or sat in on, it was 100% justifiable the kids were removed. My first case resulted in termination, mom disappeared and didn't care anyways. My current case, child removal totally justified and child may have eventually died if not removed from Dads care. Mom was in jail. What will happen? We shall see but this child right now is in a VERY good place and being cared for by a relative. People should still be encouraged to call CPS if they suspect abuse or neglect. The problem is people abuse CPS and call them for such stupid crap, it makes the legit complaints get undermined with all the politics.
     
  12. jharris352

    jharris352 New Member

    Messages:
    2,837
    Likes Received:
    343
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I can't agree more that there are a lot of cases out there where CPS is not only justified but necessary. There is also a balancing act between the safety of the children and the parent's rights. I get real upset when CPS tries to make a case where one does not exist because they don't like the morality of the parents, or something else they have no business getting involved in. The FLDS case is a great example.

    CPS got a call from a 16 year old girl who was not even on the compound complaining about under age girls being married off to older men. She lied, and they knew she lied, and they used this as provocation to enter the compound. Then drunken power takes over. They not only take the teen girls that might be in some danger, they take EVERY CHILD THERE right down to babies? So their tip was a lie to begin with and then they vastly overreacted because the people could be painted as weirdos.

    I think CPS should have more police powers and more police responsibilities. No more of this BS that they are Civil and not Criminal. They should get in trouble for lying to and bullying parents. They should have to provide witness lists and discovery so the parent can adequately defend themselves. They should have to give the parents their RIGHTS and respect those rights. They should stop taking the children first and deciding if they should keep them later.

    I am in the process of getting a grant to start a Parent's rights organization. They would work hand in hand with CPS organizations but they would be there as an outsider to catch when the Parent is being abused by a guardian, CPS agent, CASA, or Court. Right now the parent (when they are innocent) can get no help because everyone assumes that their must be some reason CPS is involved. And everyone is so afraid to leave a child in a situation where they get hurt that they take the children and ask questions later.

    Here in the South we have a problem with self-righteous hypocrites that use their values to judge parents when there is no real harm done to the children. When you give bureaucrats power over your children, you are bound to have problems. There needs to be far more protection for the parent's rights.

    Why do CASA's do it? Most do it for the reason you state. BUT plenty are on a armature investigative busybody high. I have a CASA right now that I'm in the middle of busting for going around doing Investigations on parents and presenting herself as an Officer of the court before she has any authority to do so. She is to pay attention to the children, instead she is investigating the parents. Why does she do it? Power. Power over other's lives. She is going to be stopped.

    I tell people not to cooperate with CPS for the same reason I tell them not to talk to the Police: It's the smart thing to do. If a child is being hurt, it will come out even if they don't cooperate. But cooperating just creates problems, it rarely solves them.
     
  13. Duranie

    Duranie Moderator

    Messages:
    4,417
    Likes Received:
    202
    Trophy Points:
    0

    I still do not agree with telling parents not to cooperate. If they truly have done nothing wrong, CPS will come in and they likely will NEVER see them again. We had CPS at our door a few years ago due to my step-daughter being abused at moms house by her husband. She was sent to live with us. CPS arrived unexpected on a Sat morning just to talk to me and Dad and to inspect the house. This girl had been through hell. Of course I do not blame them for wanting to make sure the child was in a safe place. She was in our house for 10 minutes and left, never saw her again. Imagine if we didnt cooperate with a simple request like that. A woman out here in AZ on another message board I'm on, was asking about CPS. She was on some biased anti CPS website and was wondering if she should talk to the worker or not. Someone was making totally BS accusations against her. Every attorney on there said to cooperate and if the accusations truly are false then she likely will be cleared. The CPS worker showed up, they had a nice chat, and the CPS worker told her she was closing the case as totally unsubstantiated. That woman posted back saying she is really glad she cooperated and didn't follow the advice of the CPS bashers.

    There are some parents who abuse their kids and they do not cooperate with CPS so what do they do? They get up and move somewhere else so that they can slip in under the radar. Bad news for these kids. Family in Phx invesigated for neglect twice of their 2 young kids. Completed case plan (joke), CPS closed case. Moved to Tucson. They had a 3rd baby, which died of neglect. Parents stupidly left 3 young kids in the bathtub alone and the youngest slipped under water and drowned. Mom was cooking pancakes and Dad watching football while it happened, neither watching the kids in water.

    By the way my case is being moved to severence I just found out today. Me and the GAL pushed for severence 3 months ago. CPS wanted to give mom 90 more days and the judge agreed and told mom VERY sternly she has 3 more months to get her act together or she will lose her child. Figures she didn't and now CPS is changing the case plan to severence we have a meeting tomorrow. I feel good about this.
     
  14. jharris352

    jharris352 New Member

    Messages:
    2,837
    Likes Received:
    343
    Trophy Points:
    0
    You are already getting the know-it-all attitude about parents and what you "FIGURE" they will do.

    Let me explain Duraine, in 12 more months that attitude of yours will grow into a God-complex. You will start seeing your version of parenting as the gold standard and everyone else's as inferior. It's wrong. Should they have left the child in the tub alone? Probably not. Is that a reason to take another child they have away? ABSOLUTELY NOT.

    You and your crew of bureaucrats know what's best for everyone. You walk into a house and see no child safety plugs on the wall outlets and you see "child endangerment" when in fact is it no such thing. You see the Mother serving peanut butter and jelly and begin to question the nutritional value of their food. You see 4-5 year old children running around naked or half clothed and you see possible sexual abuse. You take children and have them talk to pseudo-psychologists and before you know it they have been molested, when no such molestation has occurred. (There are thousands of such cases).

    The flaw in your "logic" of "if they haven't done anything then why not cooperate" is that it depends on who is determining what is right and wrong. Power corrupts, and power over the family unit is one of the most corrupting influences there is.

    How about power over adoptions? Have you ever run into cases where it was PROVEN that a CASA was helping someone adopt a child by creating a case to terminate this lady's rights? I have. The CASA's defense? The children would be better off in the wealthy person's house.

    So please spare me the social workers are in it for the good of the children crap. I stopped swallowing that line on case number 100 I have dealt with concerning corrupt, know-it-all social workers. They start there caring for the children, and then they get jaded and make statements like: "Figures she didn't...." instead of working to make sure she did. DCF is a necessary EVIL, but it is an EVIL none-the-less because it is run by corruptible people.

    The very fact that you don't want people to protect their rights against and intrusive government official shows your mindset. How dare a person want to live their life without some pea-brained social worker and CASA rummaging around in their house making judgments about how they live? The NERVE OF THOSE FREE PEOPLE. It just figures that those people who want to be left alone from unnecessary involvement from government officials are hiding something doesn't it.

    THAT IS THE ATTITUDE PROBLEM. A person's right to Privacy, Right to Protection Against Unreasonable Search and Seizure, Right to Due Process, and Right to be "Let alone" by the Government as the GA Supreme Court put it in Powell v. State is MUCH more important than some petty bureaucrat's idea of what will or won't protect even children.

    Quit now, you are already developing a God complex over people's Rights.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2010
  15. jharris352

    jharris352 New Member

    Messages:
    2,837
    Likes Received:
    343
    Trophy Points:
    0
    By the way Duraine, another small problem with cooperating with DCF and CASA's is that many of them tend to stretch the truth, and God say it isn't so, LIE because they "just know" something is going on. So what lies do they tell? You have to do this drug test or we will take your children. (There is no such thing as the power to FORCE parent to take a drug test. I'm sure you think that DCF should be allowed to but they aren't.

    And please save me the "if they are doing drugs they are putting their child at risk and should have them taken." That simply isn't the law, but most CASA's and Social workers will tell you it is. Deprivation is where you have an rehabilitated Chronic drug or alcohol use problem. It is wrong, but it isn't a reason for DCF to be involved unless there is real and actual harm to the child.

    I have seen more than one CASA WAY over step her bounds by falsely telling parents what they MUST do or what hospital personnel MUST do, or records they MUST release. All of that is WAY outside of a CASA's power many times EVEN WITH A COURT ORDER. Never the less over zealous CASA's will do it because they "have the best interest of the child in mind."

    That's a dangerous assumption. Children are best left with their parents unless there is CLEAR AND CONVINCING EVIDENCE that the child is without proper parental care and control THAT RESULTS in actual neglect or abuse of the child. You guys seem to enjoy expanding your role. Anytime you see what YOU deem to be improper parental control you want to take the children, but you MUST have actual harm to the child. DCF has gotten to where they want to protect the child from "risk" and that is simply illegal because it is an opinion and the parent's opinion is the one that counts until you can show actual harm to a child.

    Rights are not Optional according to your opinion of how good they are.
     
  16. jharris352

    jharris352 New Member

    Messages:
    2,837
    Likes Received:
    343
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Did you notice this? If YOU are the parent of the ONE child that was removed unjustly then I can assure you that you don't give a crap about the 2-3 kids that should have been taken and weren't. When it's your child that has been taken its IMPORTANT.

    Why is it that CASA's and Social workers think that a mistake or two along the way is OK AS LONG AS OTHERS ARE SAVED? Would you think so if YOUR child was wrongfully taken? Would you be ok with a witch hunt in YOUR life just to make sure that other children are safe? I seriously doubt it.

    It's easy to sit and pontificate about how one child here and there that is taken wrongly is an acceptable cost when others are saved; especially when it's not your child. Isn't it?
     
  17. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

    Messages:
    17,714
    Likes Received:
    1,746
    Trophy Points:
    113

    Cooperating to the government means confessing to anything they allege you to have done.

    The founders were smart enough to leave us a constitution that keeps the jackbooted thugs at bay.

    If a fish kept it's mouth closed, it wouldn't end up on a plaque or a plate.

    No citizen should cooperate with their own lynching.

    Everyone has the constitutional right to remain silent and is not obligated to testify on themselves.

    Only idiots, zealts, and morons aid and abet the jackbooted, badge carrying, government thugs in their quest to deprive you of your God given liberties.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  18. Duranie

    Duranie Moderator

    Messages:
    4,417
    Likes Received:
    202
    Trophy Points:
    0

    JHarris please get off your soapbox. I have no idea why you am talking to you about this. You seem to be totally against everything social services does. There is really nothing I can say to change your mind. You are biased and have your mind totally made up on who I am and what I do. You know NOTHING about my case. We will have to agree to disagree here. How have I developed a GOD complex? I advocate for the child and I want what is best for this child and that is it. Most of what you have stated has absolutely nothing to do with me or CPS. What you are describing is not normal, or protocol. Again there is CLEAR evidence in both my cases that the mothers are totally unfit. So again tell me how am I expanding my role here? I'm confused. Nevermind don’t. The mother here after 1 year under the umbrella of social services still has no interest in parenting the child.

    The goal is ALWAYS family reunification but it doesn’t always end up that way and for a good reason in this case.

    I agree with most of your advice on here but will not agree with you slamming social services and CPS especially in my cases where their presence is needed and necessary.
     
  19. jharris352

    jharris352 New Member

    Messages:
    2,837
    Likes Received:
    343
    Trophy Points:
    0
    As I have said, Social services is a necessary evil. Whenever government officials are given god like power over people's lives it is very very dangerous. When it is necessary it is very necessary. The problem begins usually when CPS and CASA's start deciding what is "best for the child" instead of making sure that there is a necessary minimum there and leaving the child to the parents. When the child is being neglected or abused I'm all for intervention. When the neglect or abuse is according to some pinhead bureaucrats rulebook definition, I'm less complimentary.

    Watch out that you don't become jaded. The minute you start assuming that you know more or better than the parent, there is a major problem.

    Thank you for doing a thankless job, but always understand what you are messing with. The parent child bond is sacrosacnt and not subject to opinion.
     
  20. jharris352

    jharris352 New Member

    Messages:
    2,837
    Likes Received:
    343
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Duraine, you are looking at 2 cases. I'm looking at 100's. There is the difference.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page