What indicates a federal agent?

Danny Murphy said:
indicates in several places of the document that authority is based in part on the Code of Federal Regulations
Click to expand...

The CFR is cited only about a half dozen times, all in reference to commercial driver licenses. In no case does it indicate "that authority is based" on the CFR.

Danny Murphy said:
Does that cite to federal regulations indicate that the department is acting as a federal agent?
Click to expand...

No, but why do you ask?
 
Danny Murphy said:
Does that cite to federal regulations indicate that the department is acting as a federal agent?
Click to expand...

Law abiding citizens aren't federal agents because they pay income taxes and Social Security taxes.

In my opinion, they're merely "cash cows" or "pawns".

I've dealt with real federal agents, as in FBI agents, DEA agents, CBP agents, Secret Service agents, even Army CID agents.

I once prosecuted a case initiated by Navy NCIS agents.

States, entities that comprise our nation, aren't federal agents, either.
 
Danny Murphy said:
Does that cite to federal regulations indicate that the department is acting as a federal agent?
Click to expand...

No, of course not. Those citations/references to federal law are simply there because federal law governs that particular issue. Federal law provides for minimum vehicle safety, emissions, fuel efficiency standards and otther requirements for vehicles, for example. It also provides standards for uniformity in certain road signs so that drivers going from one state to another will recognize the signs no matter which state they travel, which again is a matter of safety. Even where the federal government does not impose mandatory requirements it often encourages the states to follow the standards established by the federal government as a requirement for the state to get federal highway money. The laws regarding DUI offenses are one example where the states adopt mimimum federal standard to get that federal money. The states do, of course, control and regulate a substantial part of transportation law that the federal government has nothing to do with.
 
Why cite it under authority if it is not the source of authority? Wouldn't that be a misrepresentation of why someone could do a particular thing if otherwise they would not be allowed to do so?
 
Danny Murphy said:
Why cite it under authority if it is not the source of authority? Wouldn't that be a misrepresentation of why someone could do a particular thing if otherwise they would not be allowed to do so?
Click to expand...

You're being very vague here. Try giving us some actual facts of a real case and what your concerns are. I didn't not say that the cites were not the source of authority for whatever statement was made. I'd have to see the statement and the cites to see what connection, if any, there is. But the mere fact that the state cites federal statutes and regulations that would apply does not make the state a federal agent. You don't become a federal agent by complying with federal laws, and states don't either.
 
Danny Murphy said:
Why cite it under authority if it is not the source of authority? Wouldn't that be a misrepresentation of why someone could do a particular thing if otherwise they would not be allowed to do so?
Click to expand...

You're spouting nonsense.

Do you think that a mortgage company or bank is a federal agent because it cites federal law that allows it to make FHA loans?

Do you think car manufacturers are federal agents when they cite federal laws that require them to sell cars that meet emission standards?
 
Tax Counsel said:
No, of course not. Those citations/references to federal law are simply there because federal law governs that particular issue. Federal law provides for minimum vehicle safety, emissions, fuel efficiency standards and otther requirements for vehicles, for example. It also provides standards for uniformity in certain road signs so that drivers going from one state to another will recognize the signs no matter which state they travel, which again is a matter of safety. Even where the federal government does not impose mandatory requirements it often encourages the states to follow the standards established by the federal government as a requirement for the state to get federal highway money. The laws regarding DUI offenses are one example where the states adopt mimimum federal standard to get that federal money. The states do, of course, control and regulate a substantial part of transportation law that the federal government has nothing to do with.
Click to expand...
Tax Counsel said:
You're being very vague here. Try giving us some actual facts of a real case and what your concerns are. I didn't not say that the cites were not the source of authority for whatever statement was made. I'd have to see the statement and the cites to see what connection, if any, there is. But the mere fact that the state cites federal statutes and regulations that would apply does not make the state a federal agent. You don't become a federal agent by complying with federal laws, and states don't either.
Click to expand...
 
The statements are each section and the cites are at the end of each section.

Also, not talking about complying with federal law but claiming authority to take action under federal law. Complying with a law such as paying an excise tax is quite a bit different from claiming authority to investigate someone for falsely claiming an exemption for that excise tax.
 
Last edited:
You're still not making any sense. In your original post you refer to TN driver license and now you are referring to excise taxes.

According to the TN Driver Services Division:

"The REAL ID Act of 2005 establishes minimum security standards for license issuance and production and prohibits Federal agencies from accepting for certain purposes driver licenses and identification cards from states not meeting the Act's minimum standards. Beginning May 7, 2025, all persons must have a REAL ID license for accessing certain Federal buildings, entering nuclear facilities, and boarding commercial flights within the United States. REAL ID compliant driver licenses and Identification credentials have a gold circle with a star in the right corner of the license to indicate it is REAL ID compliant."

What Is REAL ID (tn.gov)

So, when you, Danny Murphy, walk into the TN Driver Services Division, a state operated agency, walk up to the counter and get your Real ID Driver License, just who, exactly, in that building do you think is a "federal agent" with regards to determining if you qualify for that type of license, and why do you think that?
 
Danny Murphy said:
Also, not talking about complying with federal law but claiming authority to take action under federal law.
Click to expand...

Actually, I think you are asking about complying with federal law. But you'd need to give us the exact facts and what your concerns are to get a good answer to this. Your initial question involved driver's licenses. And I suspect I know what is really the issue here: you don't want to provide what is necessary to get a REAL ID compliant license in your state. It may be the only type of license the state offers, so if you want to drive, you many not have a choice.

States are free to issue driver's licenses for the citizens of their state in any format they choose and with whatever information they choose to require of the citizens to issue it. However, if the state wants their licenses to comply with the federal law and regulations for REAL ID purposes then it needs to do what the federal government requires to make their licenses meet the REAL ID qualifications. The REAL ID is a document that would allow the person to do things like board aircraft and enter federal buildings, as federal law requires REAL ID compliant identification from persons wanting to do those things. So naturally most citizens of every state want their licenses to be REAL ID compliant. But the state is free to issue noncompliant licenses, too, if it wants to do so.

Some states do just that: they give a person a choice of which type of license to get. But that is a state decision, not a federal one. The federal government cannot force the states to issue REAL ID compliant licenses. It's up to the states to decide whether they want their licenses to qualify. Every state wants to be able to issue licenses that meet the REAL ID requirements because that's what their citizens want. And to do that, the state will need to comply with the federal requirements.
 
I got my real ID just before the last time the deadline for having one was extended again. I actually possess both IDs because they are identical (same number and everything) other than the star that says the NJDOT looked at my passport when they issued it.

The only thing that was problematic was that the flag hanging in the DMV office had fringe on it.
 
flyingron said:
The only thing that was problematic was that the flag hanging in the DMV office had fringe on it.
Click to expand...

Implying that there is something "wrong" about the DMV (or any government or public building) displaying a US flag with a fringe on it?.

There isn't.

It has long been an assertion by the "lunatic fringe" (along with "Right to Travel," "Sovereign Citizen," and "Voluntary Income Tax" that one does not have to pay) that a fringed flag is only for military use and that the use in government or public buildings conveys only military jurisdiction to those premises and those facilities (like courts for example and, by extension, your DMV) have no jurisdiction over civilian matters.

That nonsense has been routinely and perennially rejected by a plethora of appellate court decisions.

McCann v. Greenway, 952 F. Supp. 647 (W.D. Mo. 1997) :: Justia

Schneider v. Schlaefer, 975 F. Supp. 1160 - Dist. Court, ED Wisconsin 1997 - Google Scholar

Others can be found at:

flag fringe - Google Scholar

Should be apparent from the decisions that the fringe has no legal significance whatsoever.
 
I must comment on this.

If you read these various threads regularly, no matter what you know, you'll learn something new.

For me, until I read this thread, I never knew that some were concerned about fringe on our flag.

Thanks to those who offer these little nuggets of knowledge.
 

Share this page

Get a free case review from a lawyer
Back
Top