Were/are we being lied to?

[Zigner]

Nothing improper with people disagreeing.



I'm not only a lawyer, I'm also a physician (a DO).

I never practiced medicine, other than to complete my internship.

I am licensed in three states, should I ever choose to hang my DO shingle.

There is no scientific evidence that suggests wearing a mask protects the wearer, other than minimally.

As far as protecting yourself, the best approach is to distance yourself from others (I try to stay at least 10 feet away), don't touch others, and avoid crowds.

A mask is worn by surgeons (and the operating room team) to prevent infecting the patient during surgery.

No ethical surgeon would operate on a patient if she were infected with a communicable diseases, even if she wore a mask and protective garb.

If you wish to take precautions, buy a gas mask or respirator.

I wore a gas mask yesterday on our outing to a nearby Walmart.

A piece of unsanitized cloth or paper over your nose, mouth, and chin does very little (if anything) to keep you from ingesting germs.

A mask does nothing to protect your eyes or ear canals.

To add additional layers of protection you might wish to consider ear plugs, ear muffs, and goggles to protect your eyes.

A mask will not protect you if your skin has cuts, abrasions, or sores.

The main reason for the mask is to protect others, much like your surgeons example above. If they're not effective at protecting others, then why would surgeons bother?

 

[army judge]

Minimally is better than none at all, don't you think?

Sure, but minimally shouldn't rise to the level of mask wearing becoming a public mandate.

I get it, people want something to be done about the virus.

Government can't admit we are powerless to do anything at the current moment.

We might have a virus one day.

But, wear a mask and it'll protect you.

The issue here is that most humans care only about themselves.

Take the common cold, for instance.

People could lessen the spread of colds by simply staying home for 5 or 6 days.

Despite knowing that the spread of colds would be lessened if a sufferer isolated himself, he chooses to go to work, church, the gym, school, a store, a restaurant, etc...

The issue here, as I see it, is one that has puzzled mankind for it's existence - truth.

 

[army judge]

The main reason for the mask is to protect others, much like your surgeons example above. If they're not effective at protecting others, then why would surgeons bother?

Because surgeons (and operating team members, as do all humans) carry and transmit a wide range of bacteria and viral germs.

This mask issues focuses on one of those thousands, COVID-19.

A surgical mask has been sterilized, protective clothing, as is everything in that operating room.

The surgeon and team also scrub with anti-bacterial soap and other agents.

 

[Zigner]

Right - surgeons do a great deal of things, many (most) of which would be considered intrusive to varying degrees. They do this all in the name of protecting others.

The argument here is that the general population is being asked to do one minimally invasive thing...wear a mask to reduce the possible spread of the virus. Face coverings ARE proven effective at doing that. Sure, they don't reduce the transmission rate by 100%, or even 50%, but they DO reduce it by a not-insignificant amount.

 

[PayrollHRGuy]

Minimally is better than none at all, don't you think?

Not really, in that it will give the wearer a false sense of security.

 

[army judge]

Not really, in that it will give the wearer a false sense of security.

Many mask wearers think that flimsy, Chinese crafted mask is made of Kevlar.

Kevlar does a great job, but even a Kevlar vest has it's breach points.

 

[Zigner]

Not really, in that it will give the wearer a false sense of security.

Really? It gives me no sense of security...nor is it meant to. I suspect it gives the people I come in contact with a bit of a sense of security when they realize that the larger droplets that may carry the disease won't get through the barrier in quite as large numbers.

 

[cbg]

Yanno, I really do hate it when other people attempt to tell me what I think.

 

[army judge]

The argument here is that the general population is being asked to do one minimally invasive thing...wear a mask to reduce the possible spread of the virus.

Au contraire mon ami, MANDATED, ORDERED, DIRECTED to wear a mask.

Official armbands will soon be mandated, too.

 

[Zigner]

Au contraire mon ami, MANDATED, ORDERED, DIRECTED to wear a mask.

It depends on the jurisdiction.

 

[army judge]

It depends on the jurisdiction.

Asking is requesting.
Mandating is requiring.
I take no issue with asking. I object to requiring or mandating.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

 

[Tax Counsel]

CBG & TM, I'm combining this response simply because I know I'm not going to change either of your minds but I'd like to get my point across.

I get your point. I just disagree with it.

In my view both gathering to protest the covid-19 restrictions and the BLM protests, when done peacefully were by and large legal and thus the protestors had the right to their protest. However, with both sets of protests that I saw I would say that from a health standpoint during a pandemic that the protests created additional opportunity to spread a deadly disease and thus were unwise to do.

I vehemently oppose any protest to the extent that it involved rioting, looting, destruction of property, and violence committed against others, including some acts of violence by police and others in response that were not justified by any threat to them.

 

[PayrollHRGuy]

Really? It gives me no sense of security...nor is it meant to. I suspect it gives the people I come in contact with a bit of a sense of security when they realize that the larger droplets that may carry the disease won't get through the barrier in quite as large numbers.

But that sense of security is likely a false sense of security.

 

[Zigner]

But that sense of security is likely a false sense of security.

No, not a false sense...but possibly an overrated sense.

 

[PayrollHRGuy]

No, not a false sense...but possibly an overrated sense.

I heard this in the grocery store last weekend.

"I'm not worried. I wear a mask everywhere."

But I'd bet that untrained people wearing a mask have just as high a rate of infecting others as those without a mask.

 

[Zigner]

I heard this in the grocery store last weekend.

"I'm not worried. I wear a mask everywhere."

But I'd bet that untrained people wearing a mask have just as high a rate of infecting others as those without a mask.

Yes - that's a problem we have here - people not understanding how things work.

 

[justblue]

Anti-mask shoppers at Costco and Target throw tantrums and tear down mask displays, revealing a growing crisis for retail workers

 

[PayrollHRGuy]

Since you posted that here as well I'll post my comment too. It really fits with this conversation anyway.

I saw a mask display at Target this Saturday that had a mirror on it. Think about that for a minute. I wish I had taken a picture.

 

[army judge]

My wife claims she enjoys wearing her mask.

I wear a balaclava, and she says I'm going overboard.

I tell her, no, I'm just bored.

She says I take things to extreme.

One's perspective regarding others often is warped if the other person chooses to march to his drumbeat.

Nevertheless, I wear a balaclava or gaiter, to sneakily protest masks.

She wears her N95 reusable or cheap, Chinese disposable.

 

[Tax Counsel]

Au contraire mon ami, MANDATED, ORDERED, DIRECTED to wear a mask.

In order to help slow the spread of a deadly disease, and thus falling within the government's power to regulate for public health. That's very different from:

Official armbands will soon be mandated, too.

That would violate the First Amendment, as you well know, being a judge and lawyer. The absurd comparison between masks for public safety and Nazi armbands to show party allegiance weakens rather than strengthens your argument.