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State law or store policy?

Discussion in 'Consumer Law, Contracts, Warranties' started by Marluna311, Nov 25, 2020.

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  1. Marluna311

    Marluna311 Law Topic Starter New Member

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    Jurisdiction:
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    My question: I need to arrange installation of a new dishwasher by the store who sold it to me. I purchased the dishwasher online and was going to have my plumber install it for me. Unfortunately, there were problems, so I contacted the store to have them do the installation.

    I was told over the phone by a customer service rep that I had to come into the store to sign the installation agreement due to state laws. I asked her the statute number but she said she didn't know. I'm just curious if there is really a law covering this or if it is just store policy.

    I currently don't have a car so I would need to get a ride. It would be easier if I could take care of this either online or over the phone.
     
  2. Tax Counsel

    Tax Counsel Well-Known Member

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    There is no law, federal or state, that requires that a customer come to the installer's place of business to sign the contract. There are consumer protection laws that can make a seller vulnerable to a cooling off period though if the contract is concluded in the home of the customer, so I can see where an installer would have a policy not to conclude the deal in your home.
     
  3. Zigner

    Zigner Well-Known Member

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    Just to be clear: It doesn't matter if there's a law or not. If they will only do the deal in the store, then you go to the store if you want to do the deal.
     
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  4. adjusterjack

    adjusterjack Super Moderator

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    I'm guessing that you will also be signing a waiver before the store owner will risk trying to fix somebody else's "problem."
     
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  5. Marluna311

    Marluna311 Law Topic Starter New Member

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    An update to my installation problem..
    I purchased the new dishwasher from a Big Box store (BBS) to replace the dishwasher I bought from the same store several years ago.

    The dishwasher was delivered on 11/19/20. I had arranged to have a plumber come over on the next day to install the dishwasher. He was unable to pull out the old dishwasher because there was some metal plate that had attached the dishwasher to underneath the countertop. The plumber was afraid of damaging the countertop, so he advised me to go back to the original installer.

    I went into the (BBS) on 11/25/20 and spoke with someone in appliances. He was surprised that my plumber could not do anything as he told me that BBS always uses a metal plate to secure a dishwasher.

    I made arrangements and paid that day for BBS to do my installation. The new installers came out on 12/4/20 and they did not attempt to pull out the dishwasher because of the way it was connected to the countertop.

    I called BBS about this issue and all they said was sorry, not their problem. They suggested that I find a handyman to remove the old dishwasher and install the new one.

    I really don't want to pay somebody to fix a problem caused by BBS and their vendor. When the old dishwasher was installed years ago, I paid BBS and not their contractor.

    I realize anybody can sue anybody for anything, but if I can find someone to do the work and pay them, would I have a chance of prevailing in small claims court? Are there any other options?
    Meanwhile, I have a shiny dishwasher in the middle of my family room.
     
  6. Tax Counsel

    Tax Counsel Well-Known Member

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    That depends on whether installation was part of the deal in your purchase from the BBS. Since you originally had an independent plumber come out to do it, my guess is that you didn't include installation from the BBS as part of the purchase. If that's true, and assuming you didn't pay for the BBS to come out on its installation (that is, the BBS was offering that as a customer service bonus rather than something it was obligated to do by contract) then the answer to your question is no, you wouldn't win because the BBS was not contracted at any point to install it and thus has no obligation to do it. You'd have to prove the BBS breached a contract to install the dishwasher to win.
     
  7. adjusterjack

    adjusterjack Super Moderator

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    Did you get your money back?

    If the DW was installed properly back then, then nobody caused any problem.

    I'm not sure why there is even a problem in the first place. Watch this video and you'll see how dishwashers are easily removed by removing two screws holding the metal tabs to the counter top. This is a very common installation method. After you've watched this video go to youtube and search How to Remove a Dishwasher and you'll see the same thing over and over again. Once the screws are removed and the front feet lowered, the dishwasher slides out.

    In the video it's about 49 seconds in.



    Open your dishwasher door and look up underneath the counter and see if it's a similar installation. If not, take a picture and upload it here.
     
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  8. Marluna311

    Marluna311 Law Topic Starter New Member

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    I purchased the old dishwasher from Lowe's. They also did the installation. Apparently they did something unusual (build a wooden frame around the top) when they did the installation because 2 sets of professionals were unable to figure out how to remove the dishwasher.
    One of the installers showed me where the two screws in the front should have been, but I didn't have any.
    When I returned to Loew's this week to ask them how to solve a problem that they created, all they could recommend is that I find (and pay) a handyman to see if he could figure out how to remove the dishwasher without harming the countertop.
     
  9. welkin

    welkin Active Member

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    What is your countertop material? Is it stone, laminate, or something else?

    Once it is disconnected from the countertop and the front feet are lowered it should just pull out. However, dishwashers can also be screwed to abutting cabinets on the sides.
     
  10. Zigner

    Zigner Well-Known Member

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    How many years ago?
     
  11. Marluna311

    Marluna311 Law Topic Starter New Member

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    The first pair of plumbers lowered the legs on the dishwasher but could not figure out how to disconnect the dishwasher from the countertop, which by the way is laminate.

    The second pair of plumbers also could not figure out how to disconnect the dishwasher. They claim there was some type of wooden frame surrounding the dishwasher.

    I don't know if the dishwasher is connected to the abutting cabinets. I would have hoped one of the plumbers would have mentioned it.

    The original dishwasher was installed in December of 2005. I have a Lowe's certificate of completion signed by myself and the installation guy.
     
  12. Zigner

    Zigner Well-Known Member

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    The time limit (statute of limitations) for any legal claim against Lowes for the original installation has long since expired.
     
  13. mightymoose

    mightymoose Moderator

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    I am not understanding why you can't remove this dishwasher. Whatever tool was used to secure it can be used to unsecure it.
    If all else fails, a grinder will make quick work of the metal plate and free the dishwasher. The installers won't grind it out but you certainly can.
    Once the dishwasher is out you can remove what is left of the plate.

    If you haven't already done so, you can also do some googling and get the installation instructions for your model dishwasher. That may she'd some light on what was done.

    Personally I wouldn't waste time and would just cut whatever is holding it in place so I could get the new one in. A dishwasher is easy to install yourself, especially when the supply and drain lines are already there.
     
  14. welkin

    welkin Active Member

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    Don't call a plumber. Call a custom kitchen cabinet maker to remove the dishwasher. It will be out in 10 minutes.
     
  15. Marluna311

    Marluna311 Law Topic Starter New Member

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    But until I tried to get the dishwasher removed, I wasn't aware that the original installation would cause me problems.
     
  16. adjusterjack

    adjusterjack Super Moderator

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    Sorry, doesn't matter after 15 years.

    Please upload some photos of how the old DW is installed. Might get you some helpful comments.
     
  17. Zigner

    Zigner Well-Known Member

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    I would argue that an installation that has been trouble-free for 15 years is a good thing.
    At some point, a lightbulb is going to turn on in somebody's head and the removal will seem easy. I had something similar with an expensive piece of equipment recently. It had been unusable for close to six months because I wasn't able to adjust a required component. Then, as I was preparing to dispose of it, I noticed two tiny screws that were the same color as the surrounding material. They were perfectly camouflaged, but those were the screws that needed to be loosened to allow for the adjustment. I couldn't believe how blind I was to the obvious, and I was really kicking myself.
     
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  18. Tax Counsel

    Tax Counsel Well-Known Member

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    Even without a statute of limitations problem, you'd have to prove that the installation was somehow faulty. You evidently didn't have any problems with it over the last 15 years, which suggests it was not faulty. Note that using an unusual or uncommon method to install it is not the same thing as a faulty installation. The installer got it in there just fine, someone else ought to be able to get it out ok, too. The fact that the installers who have come out to look at it are afraid to do it because they haven't seen it before is disappointing, certainly, but that doesn't make the install that was done faulty.
     
  19. Marluna311

    Marluna311 Law Topic Starter New Member

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    Adjuster Jack - how do I post pictures? I tried but could only get 1 picture that kept repeating itself.

    I've accepted the fact I will have to hire a handyman/cabinet person etc. Again, another issue. When I google handyman and my city, it seems all roads lead to HomeAdvisor. However, their list of what "do you want done" doesn't include "other." So I have no way to describe my problem and what I want done. Argh!
     
  20. Marluna311

    Marluna311 Law Topic Starter New Member

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    Here are the pics -this is what my dishwasher looked like after both set of plumbers tried to extract it.
     

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