Spiteful ex girlfriend constantly threatening her baby's father

[lespeera]

Let me start off by saying that I know I have no legal say so in anything because its the issue is between them, but I'm really worried about the situation and I want to help my friend out as much as I can (which feels like I cant help him with much). So Im just seeking advice from you all hoping that I could possibly show him just to give him a bunch of viewpoints on what all he's in for.

My friend has 2 kids by his ex. She keeps the kids (they dont have any paperwork on custody). He pays child support on only one child (she got mad at him and put him on child support). He picks them up on his off days to spend time with his kids, he transports the kids between daycare/school/her house/babysitters, he pays the babysitters/daycare when she asks him to even when its extremely short notice, when she calls at the last minute needing someone to watch the kids he'll pick them up or take them to a family members' house to watch them if he has to work, long story short, he's not a dead beat dad. He does what he can for his kids. He's the type of parent who will starve just to let his kids be able to eat (in other words his kids come first) Anyone who knows him knows that he does whatever he can to make sure his kids are good.

Problem is anytime she calls herself mad at him for any reason (childish things like, him not being able to pick up the phone the first time she calls), she threatens him with putting him on child support for their other kid, getting him locked up, making it to where he cant see his children, or any other evil thing she can think of because she knows the only way to get to him is through his kids. Recently, she needed him to pickt he kids up from daycare/school because she "had to go to class." He dropped their youngest off at a relative's, who has a newborn, and I watched their youngest, who has a stomach virus, because he didnt have anyone else who could watch her while he was at work. Because she knew that his friend(me) watch the baby, she told him he'd have him locked up for kidnapping his own kids because she didnt specifically know where the kid was.

I understand that fathers out of wedlock have no rights, but what does he need to do or know just in case he needs to go to court to be able to get some type of joint visitation or whatever he can get to maintain being able to help raise his kids? We both believe that she's going to do something evil like put him on child support for both kids and try to make it to where he cannot see them at the same time. Which is down right wrong when here she has a man who wants to take care of his kids. He has kept text messages of their conversations and he has lots of friends and family and im sure that even her own family would come to his defense if he needed (but he doesnt want them to get involved because that would cause problems within her family), but is that enough?

 

[Proserpina]

Let me start off by saying that I know I have no legal say so in anything because its the issue is between them, but I'm really worried about the situation and I want to help my friend out as much as I can (which feels like I cant help him with much). So Im just seeking advice from you all hoping that I could possibly show him just to give him a bunch of viewpoints on what all he's in for.

My friend has 2 kids by his ex. She keeps the kids (they dont have any paperwork on custody). He pays child support on only one child (she got mad at him and put him on child support).

He wouldn't support his child if not ordered to do so?

He picks them up on his off days to spend time with his kids, he transports the kids between daycare/school/her house/babysitters, he pays the babysitters/daycare when she asks him to even when its extremely short notice, when she calls at the last minute needing someone to watch the kids he'll pick them up or take them to a family members' house to watch them if he has to work, long story short, he's not a dead beat dad. He does what he can for his kids. He's the type of parent who will starve just to let his kids be able to eat (in other words his kids come first) Anyone who knows him knows that he does whatever he can to make sure his kids are good.

He should understand that without a court order, Mom doesn't have to allow any contact whatsoever. He needs to go to court.

Problem is anytime she calls herself mad at him for any reason (childish things like, him not being able to pick up the phone the first time she calls), she threatens him with putting him on child support for their other kid, getting him locked up, making it to where he cant see his children, or any other evil thing she can think of because she knows the only way to get to him is through his kids.

He should be supporting his children anyway.

Recently, she needed him to pickt he kids up from daycare/school because she "had to go to class." He dropped their youngest off at a relative's, who has a newborn, and I watched their youngest, who has a stomach virus, because he didnt have anyone else who could watch her while he was at work. Because she knew that his friend(me) watch the baby, she told him he'd have him locked up for kidnapping his own kids because she didnt specifically know where the kid was.

I understand that fathers out of wedlock have no rights, but what does he need to do or know just in case he needs to go to court to be able to get some type of joint visitation or whatever he can get to maintain being able to help raise his kids? We both believe that she's going to do something evil like put him on child support for both kids and try to make it to where he cannot see them at the same time. Which is down right wrong when here she has a man who wants to take care of his kids. He has kept text messages of their conversations and he has lots of friends and family and im sure that even her own family would come to his defense if he needed (but he doesnt want them to get involved because that would cause problems within her family), but is that enough?

I'm not understanding why Mom is evil for requesting child support. The children DESERVE to be supported by both parents.

He has a DUTY to support his offspring. That is taking care of your kids.

That aside, he needs to file for an enforceable visitation order. That way if she denies court-ordered visitation he will have legal recourse.

Court orders protect all parties.

 

[lespeera]

You're reading wrong. He would support his children with or without court ordered child support as he was doing for both kids before she put him on child support for the one kid and he's still doing it for both kids while he's on child support for the one kid. Notice she only has him on ONE child, not both. The money for that ONE child wouldnt be enough for BOTH. Like i said, she only did it out of spite because of something unrelated to taking care of the kids. If he doesnt perform the duty of taking care of his kids then BOTH kids would be covered in the child support. He even puts money in her hand if she doesnt have it for the sake of his kids being well taken care of. He spends time with his kids whenever he's not working, buys the kids clothes, diapers, shoes, helps pay for babysitters and daycares, finds babysitters for her when she cant if she wants to go out somewhere (and he has to work), feeds them, helps with homework, discipline, and so on WHILE also paying child support. He also recently got health insurance for him and the kids. And i also said, he's not a dead beat dad, he does what he can for his kids even if it means giving up his last. So yeah out of spite for other personal reasons, because he's a good father to his kids.

The problem is not child support, its her threatning him with all types of things just to get back at him for stuff. I dont feel the need to put the whole Maury drama of their relationship on here, but the main issue is her threat the take away his rights to see the kids out of spite.

Thanks for the advice on the visitation order. I looked up some visitations a minute ago and only saw legal and physical. Ill inform him on this one.

 

[Proserpina]

I think your friend should speak with an attorney. Parents don't file for child support out of spite. They do it so if the other parent suddenly decides to not provide help, they have legal recourse. Dad shouldn't have a problem being ordered to pay support for both children.

You may also want to advise him that the court takes a very dim view of any parent who makes disdain for the other parent so obvious. And even less lovely is a third party also showing such obvious disdain.

(It is a form of alienation, and can seriously hurt the guilty party in terms of visitation and custody).

In terms of visitation, he will likely get the standard. One night per week and every other weekend (unless Mom agrees to more).

 

[lespeera]

I think your friend should speak with an attorney. Parents don't file for child support out of spite.

Thats a nice world, but unfortunately some do. You can believe that all you want. Whenever she cant have her way in his world, she tries to hurt and threatens him with stuff that has to do with the kids. When i say shes evil, i mean she'll tell their 6yr old her daddy doesnt love her and cant make time for her if he cant pick up the kids if she (the mom) wants to go out somewhere (because he has to go to work). What parent would tell their baby that when its not true? Like i said earlier, it not about the child support, its the visitation. It wouldnt be a problem if she went ahead and added the second kid, he's actually been expecting her to do it because lately she's been acting really nasty towards him now that there's someone else in his world. The thing is, she's only threatening him with it because she gets mad at him when she doesnt get her way with him and everyone knows this and everyone knows the way to kill him is to put his kids in it or even worse, taking them away from him. And thats all im going to say on this because I know first hand whats going on with them. i know how he feels about his kids and i know how she can get. So im no longer concerned about whether or you or anyone else thinks hes a unsupportive father or not or if this ex is a victim or not.

Yeah he's almost at his breaking point because he's so stressed by everything thats going on. I just hope he doesnt let his emotions show too much if they do go to court. I was actually thinking about how his emotions would be involved should it happen earlier today. If by third party, you mean me, i dont hate her I just dont like how she treats him. No one does, but its between them so all we do as friends and family is try to comfort him and keep him calm.

So now my question is, would the proper documentation showing that he does take care of his kids outside of child support and would having witnesses that can voucher that he does do right by his kids help out just in case she actually tries to go for no visitation rights whatsoever, or is it just her word agaisnt his? What can he expect in these cases?
AAAaaaand...lets say his standard day is Tuesday and she asks him to get the kids because she has something to do on a Thursday, would that be a type of violation or any kind if he doesnt have, i dont know, a text message, or anything showing that she told him to get them for that day?

 

[Proserpina]

Perhaps when Dad is feeling ready, he can come to discuss his legal issues.

You can tell him though, that "no visitation" is extremely unlikely. If he actually bothers to file, he'll get at least the standard visitation schedule.

His friends can vouch for anything they like, but it won't matter in family court. This will be more or less business-like. He files, he gets the standard unless Mom can show that he's a threat.

 

[lespeera]

Perhaps when Dad is feeling ready, he can come to discuss his legal issues.

You can tell him though, that "no visitation" is extremely unlikely. If he actually bothers to file, he'll get at least the standard visitation schedule.

His friends can vouch for anything they like, but it won't matter in family court. This will be more or less business-like. He files, he gets the standard unless Mom can show that he's a threat.

Perhaps, and youll get everything ive said and more.

OK thats good to know because thats whats worrying him. That'll rise his spirits.

And i had a feeling witnesses of the relationship might not matter (shucks)

P.S - what type of pies are u weighing >_>

 

[Proserpina]

"Somewhere over the rainbow".



It's really best to have Dad deal with his own legal business. It's not being mean or anything - it's just that he's seen things that you haven't, and generally third parties just don't know all of the details even if they're the next spouse.

He needs to do this. He needs to stand up for himself and get some court orders in place. The only reason Mom is getting away with threatening him is because he hasn't taken action yet.

Have him come and read old posts (and indeed, on other legal forums), and he'll get a free education in how custody, visitation and family law works. He's got to keep emotion out of it (except of course when it comes to loving his kids - but that doesn't seem to be in question anyway). This is really a business deal. Keep it business-like and don't let Mom push his buttons.

Y'know?

 

[lespeera]

Yeah, i understand. I try to tell him all the time to step up and not let her get him down and out. I know the business is between the two, but my main goal was hoping that I could find some information about the matter that may make him feel more confident about the situation as a boost off to get him more into it because as of right now he doesn't think anything will help him mostly because he thinks she'll always find a way to do something to make him feel stressed. The fact that you said that most likely he'll get standard visitation was good to hear. As long as she won't be able to completely remove the kids from his life if they go to court was enough. They are his heartbeat. Thanks for that info.

 

[Disabled Vet]

Vistation should come easy. Unless she can prove he is harmful. With vistation will be a court ordered child support as well.

 

[Proserpina]

...assuming Mom files for child support.

They're not tied together.

 

[dadsdivorce]

One thing in this thread that was not mentioned is that he might want to consider keeping a journal of all events and things he does. Be sure he keeps his own emotions out of the journal, and only documents the actual events. This would be the phone call from the ex to pick up the kids, or the sudden request/demand to pay this bill or that bill and what she states the consequences will be. While the issue in court does remain that it's more business oriented than he said/she said, his journal can be produced to the court as a document showing his true involvement and willingness to drop everything to be there for his children. This might have a bit of a sway with the courts. Keeping a journal of all events and conversations. It helps to establish a timeline, show activities and conversations, and involvement without having to rebuild the events from memory later.

But as has already been said, until he is willing to step forward and hire an attorney to work with him on this issue, there is little that can be done. If he wants to fight for more than the standard custody generally awarded by the courts, he had better be prepared to spend more money for that fight as well.