Speeding ticket reduce from 4 points to 2...should I go to court?

[johnny m]

Jurisdiction

New York

Hello all,

I received a speeding ticket for going 53 in a 40mph speed trap (must have missed the first 40mph sign after a long stretch in which the speed limit was 55mph). This was my first ever speeding violation. My initial charge would have put 4 points on my license, so I hired an attorney.

The attorney only succeeded in getting my points reduced from 4 to 2, per a letter from the town prosecutor. I'm not quite happy with this, given that most people I've spoken with tell me that in their experience, simply showing up in court is enough to have the charge reduced to a few parking tickets with the points completely dismissed. I figured that hiring an attorney would be playing it extra safe, and really ensure that the points were dismissed, especially given my hitherto clean record...I guess I was wrong.

So now I'm wondering whether it would be in my best interest to plead guilty to the new plea offer and accept the 2 points, or to plead not guilty and show up in court, in hopes that the points will be completely dismissed. My attorney's services, per the Off The Record deal, are complete now that the points have been reduced. He tells me that this is a tough jurisdiction, and that if I were to go to court, I'd most likely lose the case and be slapped with all 4 points. This seems to conflict with the advice given to me by most of the people I talk to, who have all had cases like this dismissed by going to court.

If I were to show up in court, what do you think my chances would be of having the points dismissed? Are my chances decreased since I've already received a plea offer, which I'll be rejecting by going to court? It's a tricky situation...I'm mostly trying to avoid increased insurance premiums.

Thanks in advance for any insight, wisdom, or advice you can provide!

 

[mightymoose]

Hmm... If this is your first violation you should be able to attend traffic school and avoid any points at all. Have you looked in to that?

 

[army judge]

Thanks in advance for any insight, wisdom, or advice you can provide!

Our NY police expert @Highwayman will be along, sooner or later, he might have some useful wisdom for you.

 

[johnny m]

Hmm... If this is your first violation you should be able to attend traffic school and avoid any points at all. Have you looked in to that?

Thanks mightymoose! I read that I could take a 5 hour driving course that may remove up to 4 points from my license, but this didn't sound like a guarantee...I'll have to look into it further! Would you happen to know whether insurance companies increase rates based on your record of violations, or strictly based on the the points on your license? I wonder if they'd still increase my rates even after removing points through a driving course...

 

[adjusterjack]

Would you happen to know whether insurance companies increase rates based on your record of violations, or strictly based on the the points on your license?

Any insurance agent should be able to answer that question.

I wonder if they'd still increase my rates even after removing points through a driving course...

Generally, if you take the course before the court date, the citation gets dismissed and doesn't appear on the motor vehicle record that the insurance company gets, hence no surcharge.

Check on that when you check on driving school.

 

[johnny m]

Any insurance agent should be able to answer that question.



Generally, if you take the course before the court date, the citation gets dismissed and doesn't appear on the motor vehicle record that the insurance company gets, hence no surcharge.

Check on that when you check on driving school.

That's great to know, thanks adjusterjack!

 

[Highwayman]

Hmm... If this is your first violation you should be able to attend traffic school and avoid any points at all. Have you looked in to that?

There is NO SUCH THING in New York. Fortunately.

 

[Highwayman]

Generally, if you take the course before the court date, the citation gets dismissed and doesn't appear on the motor vehicle record that the insurance company gets, hence no surcharge.

That's not correct Jack. NO points get "removed" by taking a DDC.

Nothing gets dismissed because of a DDC - before OR after a court date.

People get hung up on points. It's ridiculous. Points don't matter - the nature of the violation matters. So what will the speeding charge get reduced to? I'm guessing it's disobeying a traffic control device (VTL 1110a).

What court is this?

 

[Highwayman]

...most people I've spoken with tell me that in their experience, simply showing up in court is enough to have the charge reduced to a few parking tickets with the points completely dismissed.

In fantasy land maybe. It all depends on the court and the judge. Don't ever assume you can get a speeding charge reduced to a parking violation.

Points do not get dismissed by the way. Judges have no power to reduce or eliminate points.

 

[Highwayman]

I read that I could take a 5 hour driving course that may remove up to 4 points from my license...

Again, that is wrong. Points do not get removed from a license. Ever. Points stop counting and should not be looked at in determining a penalty after 18 months from date of violation.

The only time it even comes close is if you are approaching the 12 points that result in a mandatory suspension. If you've taken an approved DDC you won't get suspended at 12.

The DDC is good for an insurance discount. That is all it does.

NOTHING removes points or convictions from your driving record.

 

[adjusterjack]

The DDC is good for an insurance discount. That is all it does.

NOTHING removes points or convictions from your driving record.

I had no idea. I guess I'll add that to my list of why I don't live in NY any more.

 

[Highwayman]

I had no idea. I guess I'll add that to my list of why I don't live in NY any more.

I've seen judges get this wrong and tell people it'll remove up to 4 points, but that's wrong. It'll defer a suspension based on points (persistent violator suspension) but that's as far as it goes.

When I look at the driving record of someone who has completed a DDC I still see all the convictions and the points.

If someone is generally a good driver and has a clean record then a single conviction for a relatively minor infraction means just about nothing.

 

[army judge]

I've seen judges get this wrong and tell people it'll remove up to 4 points, but that's wrong. It'll defer a suspension based on points (persistent violator suspension) but that's as far as it goes.

When I look at the driving record of someone who has completed a DDC I still see all the convictions and the points.

If someone is generally a good driver and has a clean record then a single conviction for a relatively minor infraction means just about nothing.

@Highwayman NOT just a badge and gun, not another peace officer, BUT a knowledge spitting member of the constabulary educating the ignorant masses, while patrolling the highways and low-ways of NYC keeping the public safe.

 

[johnny m]

That's not correct Jack. NO points get "removed" by taking a DDC.

Nothing gets dismissed because of a DDC - before OR after a court date.

People get hung up on points. It's ridiculous. Points don't matter - the nature of the violation matters. So what will the speeding charge get reduced to? I'm guessing it's disobeying a traffic control device (VTL 1110a).

What court is this?

Thanks for the reply, Highwayman! This interesting.

And it's Pembroke Town Court, and yes, the reduction was to VTL 1110a.

 

[johnny m]

I've seen judges get this wrong and tell people it'll remove up to 4 points, but that's wrong. It'll defer a suspension based on points (persistent violator suspension) but that's as far as it goes.

When I look at the driving record of someone who has completed a DDC I still see all the convictions and the points.

If someone is generally a good driver and has a clean record then a single conviction for a relatively minor infraction means just about nothing.

Wow, did not know this (and it seems like no one I know knew this either)! This is certainly very enlightening.

Looks like I'll be accepting the plea offer and not going to court...seems like this is the best deal I'm likely to get. And I'll most likely enroll in a DDC as well, to prevent insurance from increasing...that's my main concern.

Thank you all for the valuable input! It's much appreciated.

 

[army judge]

Wow, did not know this (and it seems like no one I know knew this either)! This is certainly very enlightening.

Looks like I'll be accepting the plea offer and not going to court...seems like this is the best deal I'm likely to get. And I'll most likely enroll in a DDC as well, to prevent insurance from increasing...that's my main concern.

Thank you all for the valuable input! It's much appreciated.

The @Highwayman spittin' knowledge and keepin' it real 24/7/365!

 

[Highwayman]

Wow, did not know this (and it seems like no one I know knew this either)! This is certainly very enlightening.

Looks like I'll be accepting the plea offer and not going to court...seems like this is the best deal I'm likely to get. And I'll most likely enroll in a DDC as well, to prevent insurance from increasing...that's my main concern.

Thank you all for the valuable input! It's much appreciated.

Yes, take the offer. It seems like that court/judge is strict. Some are. I thought maybe it was one of the courts in Westchester County that I'm familiar with but it's not.

I always recommend taking a DDC every three years. It's cheap and you can do it online.

But honestly, an 1110a conviction won't have any affect on your insurance. It's a very minor infraction that can mean a bunch of different things.

Don't get hung up on points. They don't mean anything unless you get stopped and ticketed fairly regularly.

 

[Highwayman]

@Highwayman NOT just a badge and gun, not another peace officer, BUT a knowledge spitting member of the constabulary educating the ignorant masses, while patrolling the highways and low-ways of NYC keeping the public safe.

Just for the record... in New York a Peace Officer is different than a Police Officer. I think NY is probably unique in that regard.

And while I DO have occasion to work in NYC I can work in any of the twelve downstate counties in New York State as well as two counties in Connecticut - so I'm all that and more, lol!

 

[army judge]

Just for the record... in New York a Peace Officer is different than a Police Officer. I think NY is probably unique in that regard.

Unique is one way to characterize NY state.

And while I DO have occasion to work in NYC I can work in any of the twelve downstate counties in New York State as well as two counties in Connecticut - so I'm all that and more, lol!

Multi-state jurisdictional law enforcement officers aren't rare these days, but they are certainly exceptional.

The Army Corps of Engineer Police come to mind with cross state jurisdiction, a few tribal police officers, within the same state municipal police officers serving a city that sits in two or three counties, the PANYNJ Police have jurisdiction in NJ, NY, (at one time CT), but my all time favorite are the various railroad police agencies, AMTRAK Police, Louisiana's famous Levee Board and Bridge Police agencies, and Texas' world famous Cattlemen's and Range Associations Rangers/Police.

Special mention must also be given to the world renowned Texas Rangers along with all sheriff's deputies across the USA.

 

[PayrollHRGuy]

A special mention must also be given to the world renowned Texas Rangers.

What state do they have jurisdiction in other than Texas?