Arrest, Search, Seizure, Warrant search of closed vehicle, private property

[daban1]

I attended an event over the 4th of July weekend in Bristol, WI. I have a pickup truck with a cap on the back. The back was closed but not locked. Midway through the day upon returning, I found a note from security stating that they had taken everything in the back for security reasons and to go to the security office. Once there I was informed that my alchohol would be confiscated, but I could have my other things back. If I ever brought alchohol onto the property again I would be in trouble. They claim the tailgate on my truck was open and they had taken my things for "safe keeping" and found the alchohol while doing an inventory of it. The cooler is the only thing that was opened or "inventoried". While I cannot prove it, it is highly likely that they are the ones who opened the vehicle as nothing was missing and none who came with me had been out to the vehicle that day. They had one of their security people who was supposed to be Kenosha County Sheriff, but they where in security clothes, so I didn't bother asking for proof. I did call the Bristol police department and they said the only thing I could do would be if I could prove they opened the vehicle. Do they have the right to take my things from my truck even if the tailgate was down? Do they have the right to open my cooler or keep it's contents? All alchohol was brought for the weekend festivities and remained in the truck while on their grounds. We had driven in from Madison, WI and would be driving back after the event and had nowhere else to store the cooler while attending. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

 

[CyberCop]

I attended an event over the 4th of July weekend in Bristol, WI. I have a pickup truck with a cap on the back. The back was closed but not locked. Midway through the day upon returning, I found a note from security stating that they had taken everything in the back for security reasons and to go to the security office. Once there I was informed that my alchohol would be confiscated, but I could have my other things back. If I ever brought alchohol onto the property again I would be in trouble. They claim the tailgate on my truck was open and they had taken my things for "safe keeping" and found the alchohol while doing an inventory of it. The cooler is the only thing that was opened or "inventoried". While I cannot prove it, it is highly likely that they are the ones who opened the vehicle as nothing was missing and none who came with me had been out to the vehicle that day. They had one of their security people who was supposed to be Kenosha County Sheriff, but they where in security clothes, so I didn't bother asking for proof. I did call the Bristol police department and they said the only thing I could do would be if I could prove they opened the vehicle. Do they have the right to take my things from my truck even if the tailgate was down? Do they have the right to open my cooler or keep it's contents? All alchohol was brought for the weekend festivities and remained in the truck while on their grounds. We had driven in from Madison, WI and would be driving back after the event and had nowhere else to store the cooler while attending. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Very iffy It all depends really on a lot of facts that you where not provided. Honestly their are so many reasons that someone had to remove your property for safe keeping, but I think its highly unlikely that they had any legal right to be in the vehicle unless the vehicle was being towed and they inventoried all your personal items for record sake. Now my personal opinion is they had lied to you and in fact the cop most likely was not the one who entered the vehicle, unless he suspected some had attempted to steal items from your vehicle (which then he had the right to protect your property and put it in for safe keeping). My reason in believing that you where lied to are as followed:

1) A lot of security guards believe they are super cops (I'm profiling but I've seen it way to often) or their ex-police with no authority anymore

2)Police officers would NEVER wear a security uniform for several reasons.

-An officer needs to be able to identify himself as an officer especially when in the public. Most security personal don't carry guns and that's an officer safety issue if he didn't have a gun on his person.
-Undercover officers won't dress in security uniforms that defeats the purpose of undercover.

3)Usually a police report or documentation would have been done on the scene and you would have been provided a case number if in fact a crime might have accrued

I could go on but I really don't want to waste your time, I think you got the point. I would have tried to obtain video footage and had the "Security" provide proof of being a police officer, in a polite way of course. As I said you where not told a lot of information which makes it hard to say if it was legal, Most likely it wasn't.

 

[daban1]

Thank you. You have pretty much confirmed what we thought. This event is ongoing throughout the summer and I keep my camera at hand in hope of getting proof. I'm sure they'll do it again, if not to me then someone else.

 

[CdwJava]

Where was the vehicle parked?

Could this security officer have been working for the owner of the property or venue?



- Carl

 

[daban1]

The vehicle was parked in their free parking lot. The security officer was employed by the venue. Many of the security there are off duty police or sheriff, but they are employeed as security.

 

[CdwJava]

Whose "free parking lot"? A business? An apartment complex? A city owned lot?

Not knowing the laws in your state, I cannot say with complete certainty, but if you were parked in someone else's lot, it is entirely possible that they can hold onto property for safekeeping if it is at risk of being stolen. It would not constitute theft unless there was an intent to deprive you of the property which is clearly not the stated purpose here.

At this point, I would think you have a potential complaint to the management, but not much else. Personally, I think the biggest issue the management has is that by protecting your property they have now potentially established a special relationship and an expectation so that if you should park there again and get ripped off, you can argue that they are responsible because they should have acted to secure your property as they had done so before.

The smarter practice might be to let vehicles get ripped off ... the owners might diminish their liability that way - as well as save money by not hiring security guards.

- Carl

 

[daban1]

It is a business, a Ren Faire. They have a paid parking and a free parking area, but it's all owned by the same company that runs the faire itself. People have been caught bringing in their own alchohol so, the faire has cracked down on checking people. This appears to be the next step, but opening a vehicle to check is still illegal, so it sounds like this protection tale is to protect them from legal action. The management there is pretty bad and this sounds like something they'd do. It seems my best course of action is to get the proof of what they are doing before I try any legal action. Thank you for your information.

 

[CdwJava]

Absent any proof that they opened your truck in order to conduct an unlawful search (assuming private parties in your state can be guilty of an unlawful search), you may well be dead in the water.

Just what do you hope to gain if you find them looking in to other vehicles? Have you spoken to an attorney to see if there is even a civil case here worth pursuing? It may cost you money for an attorney in a hope of getting your attorney's fees paid.

- Carl

 

[daban1]

They opened my vehicle without permission. Whether it's illegal search or just breaking and entering, it's illegal. To start I want to recover my stolen property and any additional money spent in the process. I have spoken with the local PD after this occured and they said I need proof before I could press charges.

 

[CdwJava]

Recover what stolen property? The contraband?

And opening your vehicle without permission may not even BE a crime (I don't know your state's laws so I don't know if there is a crime for trespassing in a vehicle). However, if they still maintain the safekeeping argument then even trespassing may go out the window.

Okay. Make a claim to the venue for the cost of the property not returned to you ... and, what additional money was spent in the process? If they do not return the alcohol to you then take them to small claims court. (I assume you are old enough to purchase alcohol, correct?)

And I doubt that this will meet the definition of theft, but you can certainly try.

Frankly, it seems that you have become obsessed with trying to catch someone doing something horrible ... making a mountain out of a molehill, as it were. Next time, just lock the back of the truck.

But, its your time to waste.

- Carl

 

[daban1]

Yes I and all who travelling with me that day are over 21. The point is that they simply opened a vehicle and serached it. This time they took alchohol (contraband if you prefer). If the security are authorized to randomly open and search vehicles, then who to stop one bad apple from "confiscating" something else and forgetting to report it. If they get caught they where just checking the vehicle. There's no reason everyone should suffer or be concerned for their goods from a few bad security people. Yes I can lock my truck, but what if I forget or lose my key and can't lock it, should I have to worry about security raiding my vehicle? While I would like the cost of my possesions that were taken returned, it's more a matter of not having to worry in the future, myself and other who also attend. This is a large event in our community and there are many who only get to meet there. It would be a great loss to no longer attend because of concern for theft or harassment from a few insecure security on a power trip. I have spoken with others there and we are all concerned, however we need something substantial to work with to get the changes made. Certain of the security are family to some upper management and therefore can get away with anything. We need the law on our side and proof of them randomly searching vehicles should be a good start. I was hoping someone here would be able to take what happened and giv me a jumping point without having to catch them, but it looks like we were correct in our initial assessment.

 

[CdwJava]

The point is, absent a confession to trespassing in your vehicle - or theft (if this is theft in your state) - you may only have a possible civil action against them for the entry and the value of the property that was not returned. After all, even if some security guard DOES open an unlocked door, it does not prove that the same was done to YOUR vehicle.

Unless this was golden brew, it would seem that spending time conducting surveillance on the property would be rather ... well ... counterproductive. I value my time a little too much to waste it hunting down proof for a small claims action for a few beers ... but, if you have nothing else to do, I suppose it can be entertaining to try.

Ultimately, this is almost certainly going to be a small claims civil issue, and maybe a potentially embarassing P.R. issue for the Ren Faire if there is some sort of widespread practice of making entry into vehicles searching for brewskies. Absent some proof of theft or a practice of illegal acts, I doubt the local police are going to spend any time on this.

If you want, go to the media, complain to the management, whatever. But, it just seems a silly waste of time to try and catch them entering someone else's vehicle. But, I suppose it's your time to waste.



- Carl