fireblade274
New Member
- Jurisdiction
- Maryland
I reside in Maryland as a student on the eastern shore.
Before I go into details, a quick synopsis of my situation; a week ago I was seeing my college school counselor (whom I'd been seeing for a few weeks on a weekly basis) and during the course of our meeting she called in her supervisor who deemed I was a danger to myself, she pressed the metaphysical "panic" button and had me sent against my will to the local ER. In my opinion this was completely unnecessary and did absolutely nothing to help me but cause me more distress then the situation that brought me into counseling in the first place. The day before the incident I had a meeting with her and towards the end of our meeting we were discussing my thoughts of suicide (something you should be able to discuss with a counselor without drastic measures being taken) and she had known for weeks I own firearms and keep then in the back of my car; I keep them there because I can't store them inside my off-campus housing residence. She wanted to meet with me briefly the next day before I went away on thanksgiving break. We originally set the appointment for 10am the next day, but as a real estate agent my office has meetings 9-10am on Tuesdays, and I since I had not been to one in a few weeks and wanted to make the effort to attend that day, I rescheduled for 8am the next day before leaving her office.
I overslept, missed the appointment and was greeted by 3 campus police at my door at 8:30am that morning. I woke up minuets before they arrived, realized I missed the appointment and wanted to call to explain I wasn't going to be able to make it but my phone had been broken at the time. The police were told to check in on me. I was clearly alright, if anything sleep deprived and surprised, and was focused on attending my office meeting and classes that day. I used one of the officers phones to call the counseling center and they asked if I could still come in briefly. I agreed and drove on my own in my car to the counseling center on campus and parked in the parking lot. I later found out if I refused I would have been transported against my will to the counseling center anyway, which is ridiculous but I'll get back to that.
I went in to see my counselor who just asked me the same questions as as the previous day. She asked if she could bring in her supervisor so we could have another opinion I suppose. I agreed, because my counselor is young, seemed new to the counseling profession and I saw nothing wrong with having another counselor to be a sounding board for me and I was open to the advice of a more experienced counselor. Her supervisor just ended up asking me the same questions yet again, and my original counselor didn't say a word. The supervisor had asked me the ways I had thought about suicide and I did disclose those thoughts to her but I was adamant, as I've always been, that they were just thoughts with no intention of following through, and went into detail of why I would not use those methods I described, and that they were just fantasies. I don't know how someone can truthfully answer the question of describing what specific thoughts of suicide you have without coming across as being a danger to yourself when I was clearly not. As a senior studying Psychology myself I know there are multiple levels/stages if you will of suicidal thoughts and simply having thoughts with no intention or plan does not deem you a danger to yourself or other, but I digress. I told her as I did my counselor in my previous meetings I was welcome and open to seeing a psychiatrist; this supervisor then said she wanted me to go to inpatient treatment that very day, which surprised me, and asked if that's something I'm open to do. I said respectfully no, I will schedule with someone in the coming days but inpatient treatment was unnecessary for me and I wanted to leave to go back home that day for Thanksgiving break.
What I said was apparently not enough for them however. I was then told I actually had no say in this and was to be transported to the ER immediately. Campus police came and they walked me out of the counseling center in handcuffs out of the building, in front of my peers, which was so distressing to me I can't even put it into words, took the firearms out of my car, went to my off-campus apartment and also took my bow and arrows. I understand it was simply police protocol to handcuff me but seriously, my counselor and her supervisor could have handled the situation so much better and should have considered the circumstances. As I'm being walked out to the campus police car students are looking at me, and they can clearly see firearms being removed from a car (my car) which was in the parking lot right outside the counseling center. All I could think about was what other peoples view of the situation was; seeing a student being walked out of the counseling center, escorted by police, in handcuffs and guns being removed from a car in the parking lot. It felt like every bystander was thinking, "Wow that guy's in handcuffs and firearms are being removed from that car, it looks like some crazy guy was going to shoot up the place, wow crisis averted". I was brought to tears. The campus police who transported me were very understanding and told me the firearms were not being taken/seized and I could get them back at a later time when it is determined I'm not a danger to myself or others. I was then at the ER for 4 hours lamenting about the whole fact this situation was completely unnecessary.
While at the ER, as if I already didn't have enough on my mind, I received a call from the Dean of Student Affairs telling me (albeit in the nicest way possible) I was now temporarily suspended from school because I drove my car onto campus property that morning with firearms in the car. The firearms stay in my car as I can't take them into my residence at off-campus housing, which is not affiliated directly with the college. In hindsight this would not have happened if the police transported me to counseling that morning, as my car would not have been on campus property. I asked the Dean of Student Affairs once I was determined by the hospital to not be a danger to myself or others (which I knew would happen), if I would be able to pick up my firearms and leave considering how I was returning home that day for thanksgiving break. He first told me I could pick them up if my mother came with me, which I immediately questioned because I am an adult and should legally have a right to take back possession of my firearms if I'm determined by medical professionals to not be a danger to myself or others. He then said that since they are being held on campus property I could not take back possession because they were being held on campus property, and told me, "well lets just take this one step at a time." At the moment I decided it was best to just let it go for now, not question, "what if the campus police just meet me off campus and give me back possession then?", and that was my conversation with him that day. I was released the same day 4 hours after arriving as it was determined I was not a danger to myself or others. I literally told the behavioral therapist at the ER the SAME things I told my counselor and supervisor earlier, and after she phoned the psychiatrist on call at the hospital, they determined I was not a danger to myself or others.
The same campus police officers who dropped me off picked me up and drove me back to my car no handcuffs involved, thank God. They were again very understanding of my situation and I asked them how I can get my firearms back. I told them what the Student Affairs Dean told me about my mother needing to come with me to pick them up and they said that was a false statement, my firearms are not being kept from me and are in a safe place. They said the ONLY reason I can't pick them up was because the only officer that has the authority to open the safe they are in has now left the area for Thanksgiving break, and would not be back until next Monday (today as of the time I'm typing this). I described how I was disappointed in this because I wanted to use the firearms (shotguns which had been grandfathered to me by my step-father after he passed away 2 years ago; I don't hunt and use them only for target practice.) to go clay shooting over the break. They understood, "that would be a good stress reliever after today", but said that's just the way it is at the moment. The whole situation seemed fishy to me as I was being told different things by different people, and it seems a bit convenient that the only person who can open the safe was now away, but again I let it go for the time being, wanted to get the hell out of doge city and returned home to the Annapolis area.
Today I am back at my off-campus apartment and needed to schedule a meeting with my assigned Affairs staff member. I can't attend classes or go on campus without asking permission from her until the "issue" is resolved. My mother says she talked with the officer today who apparently has the authority to open the safe containing my firearms and told her that, "because of the "situation" we wont release the firearms to your son even though he has been deemed not a danger to himself or others", and that either one of my parents has to come and pick them up. My legal question is, regardless of if I have a case or not, what area of law does this incident fall under, and can they really do that? I've never been an ultra-right gun advocate, and have issues with stances the NRA has taken, but now that this has happened to me I seriously question if the school has the authority to detain the firearms from me after it's been implied by other campus police officers my firearms are not being seized/detained from me, are still mine, and then being told even though it's been deemed by medical/psychological professionals that I'm not a danger to myself or others, I as an adult can't come pick them up but my parents can. It was quite ironic the day I returned to my apartment after I was returned from the ER; before I left for break I saw a letter in the mail from the NRA with a membership card with the second amendment on the back of it, and a letter saying I'm now a member till January 2018 (even though I don't remember applying for membership and have paid them nothing).
Honestly, even if I have a case I can't move forward with a suit unless it would be pro-bono, I'm a poor college student. What I'm looking for is some insight regarding my rights as a firearm owner and the rights of the school in this situation. Thank you for taking the time to read this and thank you in advance for any advice in this situation. If I can provide more details please let me know if that would be helpful.
I honestly believe that if I had been seeing a paid counselor not affiliated with the school, rather then a school counselor, I would not have been sent to the ER and I obviously would not be in this situation with my school.
Before I go into details, a quick synopsis of my situation; a week ago I was seeing my college school counselor (whom I'd been seeing for a few weeks on a weekly basis) and during the course of our meeting she called in her supervisor who deemed I was a danger to myself, she pressed the metaphysical "panic" button and had me sent against my will to the local ER. In my opinion this was completely unnecessary and did absolutely nothing to help me but cause me more distress then the situation that brought me into counseling in the first place. The day before the incident I had a meeting with her and towards the end of our meeting we were discussing my thoughts of suicide (something you should be able to discuss with a counselor without drastic measures being taken) and she had known for weeks I own firearms and keep then in the back of my car; I keep them there because I can't store them inside my off-campus housing residence. She wanted to meet with me briefly the next day before I went away on thanksgiving break. We originally set the appointment for 10am the next day, but as a real estate agent my office has meetings 9-10am on Tuesdays, and I since I had not been to one in a few weeks and wanted to make the effort to attend that day, I rescheduled for 8am the next day before leaving her office.
I overslept, missed the appointment and was greeted by 3 campus police at my door at 8:30am that morning. I woke up minuets before they arrived, realized I missed the appointment and wanted to call to explain I wasn't going to be able to make it but my phone had been broken at the time. The police were told to check in on me. I was clearly alright, if anything sleep deprived and surprised, and was focused on attending my office meeting and classes that day. I used one of the officers phones to call the counseling center and they asked if I could still come in briefly. I agreed and drove on my own in my car to the counseling center on campus and parked in the parking lot. I later found out if I refused I would have been transported against my will to the counseling center anyway, which is ridiculous but I'll get back to that.
I went in to see my counselor who just asked me the same questions as as the previous day. She asked if she could bring in her supervisor so we could have another opinion I suppose. I agreed, because my counselor is young, seemed new to the counseling profession and I saw nothing wrong with having another counselor to be a sounding board for me and I was open to the advice of a more experienced counselor. Her supervisor just ended up asking me the same questions yet again, and my original counselor didn't say a word. The supervisor had asked me the ways I had thought about suicide and I did disclose those thoughts to her but I was adamant, as I've always been, that they were just thoughts with no intention of following through, and went into detail of why I would not use those methods I described, and that they were just fantasies. I don't know how someone can truthfully answer the question of describing what specific thoughts of suicide you have without coming across as being a danger to yourself when I was clearly not. As a senior studying Psychology myself I know there are multiple levels/stages if you will of suicidal thoughts and simply having thoughts with no intention or plan does not deem you a danger to yourself or other, but I digress. I told her as I did my counselor in my previous meetings I was welcome and open to seeing a psychiatrist; this supervisor then said she wanted me to go to inpatient treatment that very day, which surprised me, and asked if that's something I'm open to do. I said respectfully no, I will schedule with someone in the coming days but inpatient treatment was unnecessary for me and I wanted to leave to go back home that day for Thanksgiving break.
What I said was apparently not enough for them however. I was then told I actually had no say in this and was to be transported to the ER immediately. Campus police came and they walked me out of the counseling center in handcuffs out of the building, in front of my peers, which was so distressing to me I can't even put it into words, took the firearms out of my car, went to my off-campus apartment and also took my bow and arrows. I understand it was simply police protocol to handcuff me but seriously, my counselor and her supervisor could have handled the situation so much better and should have considered the circumstances. As I'm being walked out to the campus police car students are looking at me, and they can clearly see firearms being removed from a car (my car) which was in the parking lot right outside the counseling center. All I could think about was what other peoples view of the situation was; seeing a student being walked out of the counseling center, escorted by police, in handcuffs and guns being removed from a car in the parking lot. It felt like every bystander was thinking, "Wow that guy's in handcuffs and firearms are being removed from that car, it looks like some crazy guy was going to shoot up the place, wow crisis averted". I was brought to tears. The campus police who transported me were very understanding and told me the firearms were not being taken/seized and I could get them back at a later time when it is determined I'm not a danger to myself or others. I was then at the ER for 4 hours lamenting about the whole fact this situation was completely unnecessary.
While at the ER, as if I already didn't have enough on my mind, I received a call from the Dean of Student Affairs telling me (albeit in the nicest way possible) I was now temporarily suspended from school because I drove my car onto campus property that morning with firearms in the car. The firearms stay in my car as I can't take them into my residence at off-campus housing, which is not affiliated directly with the college. In hindsight this would not have happened if the police transported me to counseling that morning, as my car would not have been on campus property. I asked the Dean of Student Affairs once I was determined by the hospital to not be a danger to myself or others (which I knew would happen), if I would be able to pick up my firearms and leave considering how I was returning home that day for thanksgiving break. He first told me I could pick them up if my mother came with me, which I immediately questioned because I am an adult and should legally have a right to take back possession of my firearms if I'm determined by medical professionals to not be a danger to myself or others. He then said that since they are being held on campus property I could not take back possession because they were being held on campus property, and told me, "well lets just take this one step at a time." At the moment I decided it was best to just let it go for now, not question, "what if the campus police just meet me off campus and give me back possession then?", and that was my conversation with him that day. I was released the same day 4 hours after arriving as it was determined I was not a danger to myself or others. I literally told the behavioral therapist at the ER the SAME things I told my counselor and supervisor earlier, and after she phoned the psychiatrist on call at the hospital, they determined I was not a danger to myself or others.
The same campus police officers who dropped me off picked me up and drove me back to my car no handcuffs involved, thank God. They were again very understanding of my situation and I asked them how I can get my firearms back. I told them what the Student Affairs Dean told me about my mother needing to come with me to pick them up and they said that was a false statement, my firearms are not being kept from me and are in a safe place. They said the ONLY reason I can't pick them up was because the only officer that has the authority to open the safe they are in has now left the area for Thanksgiving break, and would not be back until next Monday (today as of the time I'm typing this). I described how I was disappointed in this because I wanted to use the firearms (shotguns which had been grandfathered to me by my step-father after he passed away 2 years ago; I don't hunt and use them only for target practice.) to go clay shooting over the break. They understood, "that would be a good stress reliever after today", but said that's just the way it is at the moment. The whole situation seemed fishy to me as I was being told different things by different people, and it seems a bit convenient that the only person who can open the safe was now away, but again I let it go for the time being, wanted to get the hell out of doge city and returned home to the Annapolis area.
Today I am back at my off-campus apartment and needed to schedule a meeting with my assigned Affairs staff member. I can't attend classes or go on campus without asking permission from her until the "issue" is resolved. My mother says she talked with the officer today who apparently has the authority to open the safe containing my firearms and told her that, "because of the "situation" we wont release the firearms to your son even though he has been deemed not a danger to himself or others", and that either one of my parents has to come and pick them up. My legal question is, regardless of if I have a case or not, what area of law does this incident fall under, and can they really do that? I've never been an ultra-right gun advocate, and have issues with stances the NRA has taken, but now that this has happened to me I seriously question if the school has the authority to detain the firearms from me after it's been implied by other campus police officers my firearms are not being seized/detained from me, are still mine, and then being told even though it's been deemed by medical/psychological professionals that I'm not a danger to myself or others, I as an adult can't come pick them up but my parents can. It was quite ironic the day I returned to my apartment after I was returned from the ER; before I left for break I saw a letter in the mail from the NRA with a membership card with the second amendment on the back of it, and a letter saying I'm now a member till January 2018 (even though I don't remember applying for membership and have paid them nothing).
Honestly, even if I have a case I can't move forward with a suit unless it would be pro-bono, I'm a poor college student. What I'm looking for is some insight regarding my rights as a firearm owner and the rights of the school in this situation. Thank you for taking the time to read this and thank you in advance for any advice in this situation. If I can provide more details please let me know if that would be helpful.
I honestly believe that if I had been seeing a paid counselor not affiliated with the school, rather then a school counselor, I would not have been sent to the ER and I obviously would not be in this situation with my school.
