Prosecution cannot or will not produce transcript of anonymous tip??

[Frozen Tundra]

Jurisdiction

Wisconsin

We made a formal discovery request, and we were told there is nothing else.

Affidavit for search warrant summarized anonymous tip down to one sentence. My defense lawyer wanted the entire thing.

Affidavit also mentioned attempts at other surveillance, but results of this were omitted from affidavit.

Awaiting sentencing after accepting plea. Cant help but wonder if these were nonstarters, or indeed a big deal to press further on.

What if they cant produce the tip? Or there were ommissions that were exculpatory in the affidavit?

 

[Highwayman]

Why don't you keep all of your questions about the same matter in the same thread??

"We"?? If you have an attorney, which you claim you do, he is the one to ask - not a bunch of strangers online. Enough already.

 

[adjusterjack]

Awaiting sentencing after accepting plea.

You took a plea.

It's a done deal and you are entitled to NOTHING from the prosecution.

Had you insisted on going to trial, you would be entitled to disclosure.

 

[Frozen Tundra]

plea was after. Sentencing has been delayed. I have the option to withdraw my plea and relitigate, or accept fair plea deal and appeal later. Considering what at first blush seems to be a favorable plea bargain, I have decided to fight another day. I have interviewed a few appeals attrorneys and they all feel there is merit to push forward.

 

[zddoodah]

My defense lawyer wanted the entire thing.

What "thing"? Are you talking about a "transcript" of this anonymous tip. Given that the prosecutor "told [you that] there is nothing else," what reason do you have to believe such a transcript exists?

Awaiting sentencing after accepting plea. Cant help but wonder if these were nonstarters, or indeed a big deal to press further on.

What if they cant produce the tip? Or there were ommissions that were exculpatory in the affidavit?

If you pleaded guilty, none of this matters. If you are having second thoughts, discuss with your attorney ASAP whether you are able to withdraw the plea before sentencing.

 

[Frozen Tundra]

What "thing"? Are you talking about a "transcript" of this anonymous tip. Given that the prosecutor "told [you that] there is nothing else," what reason do you have to believe such a transcript exists?



If you pleaded guilty, none of this matters. If you are having second thoughts, discuss with your attorney ASAP whether you are able to withdraw the plea before sentencing.

Yes "thing" means transcript. When crimestoppers hands over a tip to the authorities, it is not just a friendly phone call. They generate a tip sheet. Considering withdrawing my plea comes with tremendous risk, and we fear the perceived delay tactic as a aggravating factor for Judge, I come here to either nullify or justify my concerns.

I understand an Appeals attorney will not usually take a case when there is no merit, I have not met a local Attorney yet, that suggested I give up.

 

[mightymoose]

Was the one sentence summary of the tip sufficient to support probable cause for the search? Not likely. However combined with other efforts in the investigation it carried some weight. Apparently the tip was not the only source of information as you mentioned additional surveillance. Detailed results of that surveillance don't necessarily belong in the affidavit.
The one sentence summary you are concerned about is likely at least in part to protect the identity of the tipster. If details were given it could jeopardize their anonymity.
What do you hope to gain by obtaining a couple more sentences, assuming the document you seek exists? Do you think it will invalidate the rest of the investigation? Probably not.
The tip is probably what put them on your trail, but the evidence against you likely came from other means.

You might speak with your attorney and find out what significant difference it would make if you had the document you seek. It might make no difference at all, and by then you've lost your plea offer.

 

[Frozen Tundra]

During my consultations with local attorneys, they all remarked that the plea deal was surprisingly heavy in my favor, and that there must be a problem with the state's case. We were digging to try to find out what the problem was.

We have discovered since then, the tipster is a former friend who is paranoid schizophrenic, and the tip was not one sentence but a rambling, incoherent manifesto or confession of sorts.

Maybe grasping at straws, maybe trying to gather as much info or ammo as possible.

 

[ElleMD]

Who the tip came from is irrelevant. That person's motive and mental state are also irrelevant. You were charged because of the tip alone. Evidently there was an investigation which pointed to some sort of illegal behavior on your part. Police don't have to and should not dismiss tips because the source rambles or has a disability.

 

[Frozen Tundra]

The additional surveillance or further investigation is just a comment in affidavit that "numerous attempts were made to collect garbage and on many occasions the garbage was not out". It is a fair inference to make that there were other pulls with no contraband that was left out if affidavit. Also fair assumption there was other surveillance that bore no fruit, are these possible omissions? Or at very least valid reasons to request further discovery?

It is my understanding that , yes, all inculpatory info does not need to be in affidavit, but Judge rules on what's in front if him at time of application. So when reviewing, it's the affidavit
that is scrutinized.

 

[ElleMD]

No offender offends 24/7/365. The fact that there were times you might have been observed not doing whatever it is you plead guilty to is meaningless.

To take what I hope is an absurd example, if you murdered someone and stuffed them in a trash can, it would not matter one bit that you only did it the one time. You can't defend the instance where you did do it by saying if they had checked on Thursday, there was no body in the trash.

 

[mightymoose]

Maybe grasping at straws, maybe trying to gather as much info or ammo as possible.

Probably grasping at straws, but your attorney is apparently trying to consider every possibility for you.
If you have not obtained the documentation you seek then one can only wonder how you know the tip was rambling and incoherent.
Regardless, the tip was enough to lead to additional investigation that supported it. If the weight of the case was on that tip alone then maybe it would be more important.
Discrediting the tipster will not necessarily discredit independent investigation that followed.

 

[Frozen Tundra]

Probably grasping at straws, but your attorney is apparently trying to consider every possibility for you.
If you have not obtained the documentation you seek then one can only wonder how you know the tip was rambling and incoherent.
Regardless, the tip was enough to lead to additional investigation that supported it. If the weight of the case was on that tip alone then maybe it would be more important.
Discrediting the tipster will not necessarily discredit independent investigation that followed.

unsolicited, the tipster confessed to me out of guilt.

 

[Highwayman]

I have not met a local Attorney yet, that suggested I give up.

Then you really have issues... looking for people on an Internet forum to enable you and comfort you when what you SHOULD be doing is retaining one of these countless attorneys and getting down to business. I guess you just like wasting your time and ours.

 

[Frozen Tundra]

Then you really have issues... looking for people on an Internet forum to enable you and comfort you when what you SHOULD be doing is retaining one of these countless attorneys and getting down to business. I guess you just like wasting your time and ours.

I do not want to waste your time. I especially do not wish to spend $10,000 on an appeals attorney when there has not been one glimmer of hope gleaned from these forums.

Enable and comfort me? Quite the contrary. However grateful for the reality check.

 

[mightymoose]

unsolicited, the tipster confessed to me out of guilt.

Still, you would need some way of proving something unlawful was done. It likely is not there. Even if the information was unreliable or questionable it can still be used. That is the whole purpose of additional investigation- to support the anonymous tip and establish probable cause to search.

I have not met a local Attorney yet, that suggested I give up.

I doubt they would encourage that, especially if they want you to pay them.
That there might be a nugget of information out there is one thing, but what you intend to do with that information if obtained is far more important.
I don't know the details of your case and don't need to, but I don't see any practical use for obtaining what you are seeking. How would it be used to change the outcome?

 

[Frozen Tundra]

Still, you would need some way of proving something unlawful was done. It likely is not there. Even if the information was unreliable or questionable it can still be used. That is the whole purpose of additional investigation- to support the anonymous tip and establish probable cause to search.



I doubt they would encourage that, especially if they want you to pay them.
That there might be a nugget of information out there is one thing, but what you intend to do with that information if obtained is far more important.
I don't know the details of your case and don't need to, but I don't see any practical use for obtaining what you are seeking. How would it be used to change the outcome?

At the time we requested it, reason was to build our defense and try to uncover any needle in haystack. This is just one example of many areas we requested discovery.

Nowadays I wonder if being denied discovery is an issue or not.

I was led to believe I would be getting representation that was to leave no stone unturned.

This thread got sidetracked and I sincerely appreciate your responses. Perhaps let me rephrase the question.

If there is an actual longer transcript(regardless of contents) and there was more surveillance w/accompanying narratives, can they deny providing them?

What issue could arise from denying discovery?

 

[army judge]

I do not want to waste your time. I especially do not wish to spend $10,000 on an appeals attorney when there has not been one glimmer of hope gleaned from these forums.

Enable and comfort me? Quite the contrary. However grateful for the reality check.

Fewer than 10% of convicted felons have their convictions overturned during the appellate process.

Most of those that do have deep pockets, or political connections.

I don't wish to criticize my brothers and sisters plying their craft before the appellate bar.

I will, however, point out that they make their living selling their professional services to people who find themselves in your unfortunate position.

I think you can connect the dots, mate.

 

[army judge]

If there is an actual longer transcript(regardless of contents) and there was more surveillance w/accompanying narratives, can they deny providing them?

What issue could arise from denying discovery?

As someone replied above, discovery isn't required UNLESS you go to trial.

If you plead guilty or take a plea, you deny yourself a "look see" at all that juicy stuff the prosecutor possesses.

Frankly, discovery is very often over rated.

I say that as a lawyer who has plied his craft in the military and civilian worlds defending hundreds of unfortunate souls who were alleged to have run afoul of THEIR MANY laws.

Whatever is possessed by the prosecutor isn't evidence, and won't become evidence unless admitted at trial.

There is no silver bullet mate, no immunization, or guarantee.

The only thing that protects a criminal defendant is our constitution and those 12 fine folks sitting in the "box".

 

[mightymoose]

If there is an actual longer transcript(regardless of contents) and there was more surveillance w/accompanying narratives, can they deny providing them?

What issue could arise from denying discovery?

First of all this longer transcript you are seeking may not exist, or if it does it is possible the prosecutor does not have it. It would have passed through various hands between Crime Stoppers and the prosecutor. They can't provide what they don't have.

Information regarding results of surveillance would surely be in the police reports. That information would certainly be provided in discovery or else it would never be admitted into evidence and used against you.

As noted by others, you apparently did not reach the point at which the prosecution would be obliged to reveal the information. If that was the case then you were not actually denied anything. It simply was not required yet.

If the prosecution deliberately withholds informatuon in discovery it could cause various problems, primarily with their ability to admit evidence. It does them no good at all to deliberately withhold anything and is unlikely to happen.