Pre-marital property

[Roland5229]

Jurisdiction

Missouri

I own a property, which I bought before I was married, and just moved out of it to a new house with my wife. I plan on converting the previous property to a rental and am planning on forming an LLC for it. It is my understanding that the property is currently considered pre-marital property in the state of Missouri. If I were to move this property into an LLC would it still be considered pre-marital property?

 

[Redemptionman]

Is your name on it only? I would assume that assets you had in your name before the marriage would be considered pre martial property. When you make changes and/ or refinance or make business changes post marriage then that can be considered a martial asset. Basically anything you bring into a marriage is pre martial and everything done post marriage is martial/ split.

 

[zddoodah]

A few preliminary questions:

1. When were you married?
2. Is the property subject to a mortgage? If so, have you made mortgage payments since you were married? If so, how much in total have you paid?
3. Have you made any improvements to the property or paid any property taxes since the marriage?

I plan on converting the previous property to a rental and am planning on forming an LLC for it.

Why would you think forming an LLC would be beneficial? Have you considered the possibility that your interest in an LLC formed after your marriage would be considered marital property or that your spouse might have a marital interest in the LLC?

It is my understanding that the property is currently considered pre-marital property in the state of Missouri. If I were to move this property into an LLC would it still be considered pre-marital property?

Transferring title from yourself to an LLC will not alter the characterization. You would be wise to consult with a local attorney, who will probably advise that you should have your wife sign off on the transfer and give up any marital interest she might have in the property. I'm not saying that she has a marital interest, but having her sign off on this would help remove all doubt. It will also address the issue regarding the LLC ownership.

 

[adjusterjack]

I own a property, which I bought before I was married, and just moved out of it to a new house with my wife. I plan on converting the previous property to a rental and am planning on forming an LLC for it. It is my understanding that the property is currently considered pre-marital property in the state of Missouri. If I were to move this property into an LLC would it still be considered pre-marital property?

I had the same thing happen to me with a house I had before I was married and converted it to a rental when we bought a house together.

You're already married. Sorry, it's too late to prevent her marital interest in accruing. You've probably already made mistakes in how you handle the property. How long have you been married? A month? Two? Have you received paychecks during that time? Deposited them in your checking account? Paid even the smallest expense for the old house out of that checking account? If yes, then her marital interest is already accruing.

Without her written disclaimer (post-nuptial agreement) you'll be no more able to stop it than you would a freight train bearing down on you.

 

[Redemptionman]

Pre nup or post nup they all mean the same after 7 years they are SOL.

 

[adjusterjack]

Pre nup or post nup they all mean the same after 7 years they are SOL.

Bullschitt (until you cite your authority).

Here's mine:

See MO 451.220, 451.230, 451.240.

Missouri Revised Statutes Chapter 451 (2019) - Marriage, Marriage Contracts, and Rights of Married Women :: 2019 Missouri Revised Statutes :: US Codes and Statutes :: US Law :: Justia

Nothing in there limiting the amount of time that a pre-nup or post-nup is valid.

 

[Zigner]

Pre nup or post nup they all mean the same after 7 years they are SOL.

Please explain what you mean, with appropriate citations. Thank you.

 

[adjusterjack]

Please explain what you mean, with appropriate citations. Thank you.

Got in ahead of you this time, Zig.

 

[Roland5229]

A few preliminary questions:

1. When were you married?
2. Is the property subject to a mortgage? If so, have you made mortgage payments since you were married? If so, how much in total have you paid?
3. Have you made any improvements to the property or paid any property taxes since the marriage?




Why would you think forming an LLC would be beneficial? Have you considered the possibility that your interest in an LLC formed after your marriage would be considered marital property or that your spouse might have a marital interest in the LLC?



Transferring title from yourself to an LLC will not alter the characterization. You would be wise to consult with a local attorney, who will probably advise that you should have your wife sign off on the transfer and give up any marital interest she might have in the property. I'm not saying that she has a marital interest, but having her sign off on this would help remove all doubt. It will also address the issue regarding the LLC ownership.

1. Married 2017
2. Property is currently under a mortgage, it is only in my name, last refinanced before the marriage. Mortgage payments made monthly and have not changed since before marriage.
3. Have made roughly $30k in improvements post-marriage.

LLC for the property has not been formed yet, and my interest in forming the LLC is purely out of asset protection in the case of renters trying to sue me. LLC would be in my name only.

 

[Redemptionman]

They obviously vary state to state but I can tell you in most mid south states they pretty much get thrown out the window within 7-10 years but here ya go

Is my 30-year-old prenuptial agreement still valid? | Clos, Russell & Wirth, P.C. | Clos, Russell & Wirth, P.C.

most states have a specific martial split of assets and other grounds which they can be held invalid include duress and coercion when signing them.

 

[Zigner]

They obviously vary state to state but I can tell you in most mid south states they pretty much get thrown out the window within 7-10 years but here ya go

Is my 30-year-old prenuptial agreement still valid? | Clos, Russell & Wirth, P.C. | Clos, Russell & Wirth, P.C.

A MI (Michigan) citation is worthless for a MO (Missouri) matter.

most states have a specific martial split of assets and other grounds which they can be held invalid include duress and coercion when signing them.

So what? That has nothing to do with the claim you made.

 

[adjusterjack]

1. Married 2017
2. Property is currently under a mortgage, it is only in my name, last refinanced before the marriage. Mortgage payments made monthly and have not changed since before marriage.
3. Have made roughly $30k in improvements post-marriage.

Then it's way to late to avoid the marital interest issue.

LLC for the property has not been formed yet, and my interest in forming the LLC is purely out of asset protection in the case of renters trying to sue me. LLC would be in my name only.

If that's your aim, don't waste your time or your money as an LLC isn't going to help you if your tenant sues you. There may be other reasons to have an LLC (I never had one for my rentals) but for a single member LLC they aren't very helpful either.

Tax Counsel has information on the limitations of LLCs. He may post it shortly.

 

[adjusterjack]

here ya go

Is my 30-year-old prenuptial agreement still valid? | Clos, Russell & Wirth, P.C. | Clos, Russell & Wirth, P.C.

Seriously?

That's not even a "citation." It's just some lawyer's hype to convince potential clients to hire him.

True to form, R man.

 

[Redemptionman]

A MI (Michigan) citation is worthless for a MO (Missouri) matter.

So what? That has nothing to do with the claim you made.

Since no one on this forum is a law judge, and won't be making the judgement in this manner. I can tell you that most family law judges are very skeptical of nuptial agreements and depending on the judge could look for reasons to nullify them. All depends on the judge who will ultimately be making the decision.

The only states that I know of that hold them to the letter of the law are CA and FL.

 

[Zigner]

Since no one on this forum is a law judge, and won't be making the judgement in this manner.

That's an incomplete statement, but, once complete, it would include you.

I can tell you that most family law judges are very skeptical of nuptial agreements and depending on the judge could look for reasons to nullify them.

So, you admit you're not a judge, then go on to speak for "most" judges. Nice.

All depends on the judge who will ultimately be making the decision.

True, but that judge won't be looking at the length of time since an otherwise valid prenup has been signed in MO.

 

[Redemptionman]

That is correct but you could read case law, and did I say this one would be proven to be invalid. Once enough time passes they become less effective as martial assets intertwine. Anyway it is in material as the OP is not wanting a divorce but rather wanting to know what is considered a martial asset. Basically anything you owned and brought into the marriage prior to the marriage is a pre material asset and not subject to consideration as a martial asset. Everything you pay into or do after that regardless if it is in your name or not is a martial asset.

 

[zddoodah]

1. Married 2017
2. Property is currently under a mortgage, it is only in my name, last refinanced before the marriage. Mortgage payments made monthly and have not changed since before marriage.
3. Have made roughly $30k in improvements post-marriage.

OK...then your wife has a significant marital interest in the property.

LLC for the property has not been formed yet, and my interest in forming the LLC is purely out of asset protection in the case of renters trying to sue me. LLC would be in my name only.

I would suggest you confer with a local attorney to discuss at least the following: (1) whether forming an LLC and transferring your interest in the property to the LLC is a good idea; and (2) if it is your desire to ensure that this property and your ownership of the LLC are untouchable by your spouse in the event of a divorce, the best way to achieve that (probably a disclaimer of her marital interest prior to transfer to the LLC and a post-nuptial agreement).

P.S. I suggest you ignore the poppycock that "Redemptionman" is posting and the significant bickering that has already started and which is likely to continue. Get advice from a lawyer in your state about how to deal with this under your state's laws, as opposed anything that an anonymous stranger on the internet tells you.

 

[Zigner]

That is correct but you could read case law, and did I say this one would be proven to be invalid. Once enough time passes they become less effective as martial assets intertwine. Anyway it is in material as the OP is not wanting a divorce but rather wanting to know what is considered a martial asset. Basically anything you owned and brought into the marriage prior to the marriage is a pre material asset and not subject to consideration as a martial asset. Everything you pay into or do after that regardless if it is in your name or not is a martial asset.

What's a martial asset?
What's a pre material asset?

 

[Redemptionman]

Pre martial asset is anything that you brought into the marriage that was in your name only.

Martial assets are things that are acquired after and during the marriage, so even if a house is mortgaged in your name it is still a martial asset if acquired after/ during marriage.

Community assets vs Equitable Distribution

Arizona for example is a community asset which I assume would benefit the spouse with more assets and money while Equitable = screwed

 

[Zigner]

Pre martial asset is anything that you brought into the marriage that was in your name only.

Martial assets are things that are acquired after and during the marriage, so even if a house is mortgaged in your name it is still a martial asset if acquired after/ during marriage.

You are speaking of pre-marital and marital assets.