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POA conditions

Discussion in 'Power of Attorney & Living Wills' started by ZNCR, May 16, 2022.

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  1. ZNCR

    ZNCR Law Topic Starter New Member

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    Jurisdiction:
    Florida
    A family member was arrested he insisted that his bail be paid via his own debt card because he didn't want his arrest to be a financial burden on anyone.
    Evidently, the bail payment was viewed as suspicious by his bank and his account frozen. He was rearrested days later.

    A week later, he signed a paper that gave authorization to his bank account and gave explict instructions how the bank account could be used and by whom. He signed paper which was signed by a witness and then notorized. It also contained similar section that pertained to his impounded suv.

    The sheriff's dept had no problem honoring the paper's request and released the suv. However, the bank said they would only accept POA.

    Last week, I called the bank. The manager couldn't explain why the paper was rejected only saying that it needed to be a POA. She had me email her superior the paper and they would be sure to give me an answer tomorrow.

    It's been a week and no answer. Along with a photo of the paper I sent these cited links for the required state which support that paper meets the conditions of POA:

    "Florida law says very little about the content of a power of attorney."

    "In order to be effective, a Florida power of attorney must be signed by the principal and by two witnesses, and be notarized."
    Power of Attorney Requirements in Florida

    "There is no statutory rule that precludes a family member from serving as a witness on a POA. Therefore, under Florida law, a family member is permitted to witness the signature and execution of a POA."
    Can a Family Member be a Witness on a Power of Attorney in Florida? - The Rules - Jurado & Associates, P.A. Your Trusted Florida Probate Lawyers (305) 921-0976 Romy@juradolawfirm.com
     
  2. justblue

    justblue Well-Known Member

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    Is this the same family member from your other thread?


    px hx
     
  3. Zigner

    Zigner Well-Known Member

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    I'd like to point out that the document, as described, may not meet the requirements for a power of attorney.

    You may review the following page for more information. If you have additional questions, then it would behoove you to speak to an attorney.

    Consumer Pamphlet: Florida Power of Attorney – The Florida Bar
     
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  4. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

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    A power of attorney, although properly executed, doesn't mandate or require anyone or any entity to honor same.

    An entity or person can choose to honor a properly executed POA.

    That same entity or person can choose to not honor the POA.

    A POA isn't a court order, in fact, it has no legal relationship to any court.

    It is merely an instrument granting others to act on behalf of the person granting the POA. It can impose no duty that entities with which the person may have contractual or other entanglements to accept same. Those other entities may choose to reject the POA.
     
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  5. Zigner

    Zigner Well-Known Member

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    That may not be entirely accurate.

    From the Florida Bar link I shared above:

    What if the third party will not accept the power of attorney?
    If the power of attorney was lawfully executed and it has not been revoked, suspended or terminated, third parties may be forced to honor the document. The third party is required to give the agent a written explanation of the refusal to accept the power of attorney within a reasonable time after it is presented to the third party.

    Under some circumstances, if the third party’s refusal to honor the power of attorney causes damage, the third party may be liable for those damages and even attorney’s fees and court costs. Even a mere delay may cause damage, and this, too, may be actionable. It is reasonable, however, for the third party to have the time to consult with a lawyer or an internal legal department about the power of attorney. Delay for more than a short period may be unreasonable. Upon refusal or unreasonable delay, consult an attorney.
     
  6. adjusterjack

    adjusterjack Super Moderator

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    Then have your family member execute a POA.
     
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  7. Zigner

    Zigner Well-Known Member

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    Frequently, banks will have their own form for a POA that they would prefer be used. Ask them - it may help things go more smoothly.
     
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  8. ZNCR

    ZNCR Law Topic Starter New Member

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    Yes, and since he has been declared mentally incompetent, he would not be able give authority with a POA. It's my understanding the process would involve a guardianship which is an expensive and complicated.
    Yes, and since he has been declared mentally incompetent, he would not be able give authority with a POA. It's my understanding the process would involve a guardianship which is an expensive and complicated.
     
  9. Zigner

    Zigner Well-Known Member

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    Don't be so sure about his ability (or lack thereof) to execute a valid POA. You should speak to an attorney.
     
  10. ZNCR

    ZNCR Law Topic Starter New Member

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    The document, as described, may not meet the requirements of POA? Either it meets the requirements or it does not.

    I suspect that it does or the bank employees would've replyed with an explict reason. Instead they do not want be on the record. What are they trying to hide?

    I found one other example that involved a Florida county sheriff's office with impound requirements. If the requirements do not vary by county then based on Pinellas County, POA is required and the paper met the requirements of POA:
    "Release of an impounded vehicle to any individual who is not the registered owner:

    Any person not the registered owner of an impounded vehicle must have a valid notarized power of attorney which authorizes the person named to conduct business for the registered owner.

    The individual must present either the title or registration of the vehicle.

    The individual must present a valid state photo ID or valid state driver license."
    Impound Release FAQs -
     
  11. Zigner

    Zigner Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I agree. Either it does or it doesn't. I'm not sure what your point is by stating the obvious.
    Ask the bank for a written explanation to explain why they are refusing. Such an explanation is required by law.
     
  12. Tax Counsel

    Tax Counsel Well-Known Member

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    If he's not competent enough to execute a POA then the written instrument he did sign wouldn't be effective either. The level of competency needed to execute a POA is not real high, so you might want to consult an attorney to see if he can sign off on a POA.
     
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  13. ZNCR

    ZNCR Law Topic Starter New Member

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    That's what I attempted to do last week. I sent the document for review. They did not reply back. Yesterday, I called the main office and found that the e-mail address that was provided was incorrect.

    I called the local branch manager who couldn't find the correct e-mail address. After nearly 20 minutes, I asked if I needed to call the police then manger found the e mail address which just happened to be listed front and center on their website. I'm not sure why the bank is being so difficult
     
  14. Zigner

    Zigner Well-Known Member

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    Why in the WORLD would you even consider calling the police about this...much less threaten them in that way?
     
  15. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

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    :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
    :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
    :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
     
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  16. ZNCR

    ZNCR Law Topic Starter New Member

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    Do not imply I did anything wrong. No one should ever have to invoke the police just to get basic info from a business.
     
  17. Zigner

    Zigner Well-Known Member

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    Imply? I'll outright say it. It's wrong to waste the resources of the police department over what is PURELY a civil matter. It's also wrong to threaten to do such a thing.
     
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  18. ZNCR

    ZNCR Law Topic Starter New Member

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    Quit making excuses for a deceitful business. No resources were wasted, but if they had been then it would be entirely justifiable.

    I had one similar occasion, and it resulted in an insurance company employee being charged with fraud.
     
  19. Zigner

    Zigner Well-Known Member

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    I stand by my statement.

    Good day.
     
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  20. army judge

    army judge Super Moderator

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    Thread has served it's purpose, CLOSE!!!!
     
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