Need Help.....

[TomL]

I will try to make this short, but need advice if this is a valid case. I know with the amount of money involved, Indiana small claims court won't take it but maybe valid for larger court?

My wife and I joined a martial arts college/school in Nov, 2002, and signed up for one year's worth of training ($1980). Services were rendered for the first 7 months at which time we then signed up in advance for 2 additional years ($4320) of martial arts training which would take effect beginning Dec, 2003. We were appointed by Mr. X (owner/operator) as assistant instructors in May, 2003 to assist Mr. X with classes. In July, 2003, Mr. X advised us to sign up in for 2 more years (Black Belt Club) since we were now assistant instructors and in order to be instructors we must become Black Belts and also the rates would be going up soon. We did not sign contracts for either membership but we did have discussions and shook hands and we do have receipts. Beginning in mid-late July through December, 2003, Mr. X failed to show up to class on Monday's and Wednesday's at 5 PM and 6:30 PM --the classes we were able to attend/instruct as per our discussion with Mr. X. As a result, Mr. X failed to provide the training for which we paid and refused to teach when we asked (not good to asked, a form of disrespect) we were told to "have one of the other assistant instructors teach you". We no longer wish to be part of this type of school due to the poor training and instruction we received. Additionally, while Mr. X was gone, we had to teach his classes for him. Being students only 7 months and assistant instructors only 2 months, we were in no way qualified to solely teach classes without his presence. We are asking for a refund due to lack of services rendered. When we approached Mr. X for a refund, he stated that he would have no problem refunding us (and that we deserved it) but it was up to the president of the school.
When we approached the president of the college/school, he said it was up to Mr.
X. Therefore, we were mislead by Mr. X. When we approached Mr. X a second time (Februray 6, 2004), he denied us a refund.

SETTLEMENT: Refund

SETTLEMENT EXPLANATION:
Due to the fact we no longer want to be a part of this school and it's practices, we request a refund of $5145.00, which includes the remaining 5 months of our original membership and the additional two years of membership.

PRODUCT: Martial arts training

 

[Michael Wechsler]

To begin, you should be aware that virtually all health clubs and the like try to sign you up for numerous additional years because of alleged price increases. Not usually beneficial unless you know what you are getting.

I don't understand everything. One day the Mr. X decided he was retiring from teaching? I think that Small Claims Court is probably the way to go if your court limit is $5,000. Unless you want to deal with filing fees and other formalities, it's the way to go. Here's an idea -- you can sue for the remaining amount on your contract in one case and file for the 2 year extension agreement in the other. There are two reasons for doing so. One is that you can legally state that you made agreements for each of these transactions on different dates. Technically that would qualify for two separate causes of action. The fact that Mr. X may have breached them on the same day does not change the transaction dates.

Second, you may have different arguments for each. Regarding the two year extension, it is arguable that you made this agreement based upon the representation that you were getting personal instruction from Mr. X. It doesn't seem that there was anyone else who could give you that instruction. You detrimentally relied upon Mr. X's representation and, in addition, there is no paper stating what Mr. X may claim as a defense. You should bring all your receipts to prove you spent the money. In the future, ALWAYS get your receipts.

Regarding the other 5 months, I don't know if you have a case. If it was conceiveable that other instructors might teach you then you may not have a basis to sue. In the absence of any agreement it is again a question of credability and it may be that Mr. X represented to you that he would be your personal instructor. Much depends upon the structure in the school.

Of note, I am a black belt in Tae Kwon Do so I understand something about how these schools work and they are frequently informal, based upon "honor." What you should do is write a demand letter for the return of your money if you cannot work out the dispute. Not only would you likely need this for court but you may also be able to convince Mr. X that it would be in his best interests not to have two, soon to be black belts, dissatisfied with his school. You don't bring in new students that way either...

I will try to make this short, but need advice if this is a valid case. I know with the amount of money involved, Indiana small claims court won't take it but maybe valid for larger court?

My wife and I joined a martial arts college/school in Nov, 2002, and signed up for one year's worth of training ($1980). Services were rendered for the first 7 months at which time we then signed up in advance for 2 additional years ($4320) of martial arts training which would take effect beginning Dec, 2003. We were appointed by Mr. X (owner/operator) as assistant instructors in May, 2003 to assist Mr. X with classes. In July, 2003, Mr. X advised us to sign up in for 2 more years (Black Belt Club) since we were now assistant instructors and in order to be instructors we must become Black Belts and also the rates would be going up soon. We did not sign contracts for either membership but we did have discussions and shook hands and we do have receipts. Beginning in mid-late July through December, 2003, Mr. X failed to show up to class on Monday's and Wednesday's at 5 PM and 6:30 PM --the classes we were able to attend/instruct as per our discussion with Mr. X. As a result, Mr. X failed to provide the training for which we paid and refused to teach when we asked (not good to asked, a form of disrespect) we were told to "have one of the other assistant instructors teach you". We no longer wish to be part of this type of school due to the poor training and instruction we received. Additionally, while Mr. X was gone, we had to teach his classes for him. Being students only 7 months and assistant instructors only 2 months, we were in no way qualified to solely teach classes without his presence. We are asking for a refund due to lack of services rendered. When we approached Mr. X for a refund, he stated that he would have no problem refunding us (and that we deserved it) but it was up to the president of the school.
When we approached the president of the college/school, he said it was up to Mr.
X. Therefore, we were mislead by Mr. X. When we approached Mr. X a second time (Februray 6, 2004), he denied us a refund.

SETTLEMENT: Refund

SETTLEMENT EXPLANATION:
Due to the fact we no longer want to be a part of this school and it's practices, we request a refund of $5145.00, which includes the remaining 5 months of our original membership and the additional two years of membership.

PRODUCT: Martial arts training

 

[keonne]

Ata?

This sounds like an ATA school. I wonder if it is?

 

[freebird]

I think I read your case somewhere else. If you want to sue for small claims you can, just not the maximum. I think I also read that you can bring two cases, one for the amount of the basic membership and then another case when you were induced to spend money on the extension. They happened on two different days. It's a great tactic.

By the way, crossposting the same issue isn't a good idea because then people may not answer it in the same thread. I know I see everything by checking out the new threads button and it works great.

 

[freebird]

This sounds like an ATA school. I wonder if it is?

What's an ATA school?

 

[keonne]

American Taekwondo Association.

I was in one of their schools. Same deal same boat, except I waited until my contract was up to get out.

 

[Michael Wechsler]

Fortunately I know my instructor for years. He's also very informal but the payments for the school are quarterly so there really is little issue of fraud and the monetary amount would be small. There is NO question that many of these Karate schools are alike in that regard, unfortunately. You can tell when there are many belts and there are "belting costs" each time you go up a belt. Be aware! If you are in New York City and looking for a great little Tae Kwon Do school with a well known, experienced and honest instructor, just let me know!

 

[TomL]

Thanks everyone for their comments/info! After some disscussion with our attorney, we have decided to file in a Superior court. Small claims in Indiana are $3000.00 max. We submitted our statement and received an "Appearance and Answer" along with "Affirmative Defenses". It's what we expected the defendants to answer "deny the allegations as written in paragraph (x)" in reference to our statements. This all seems hopeless if the defendants deny everything, but we do have prior emails from the defendant stating things such as "I let all my assistant instructors read all the email you have wrote me and I have replied. You don't want to know what they thinks of you now." (would this statement be deprivation of character?) and "It would be different if I terminate you, or I close the school." This later statement is backed by a letter we received from the BBB which the defendant stated that the issue was "closed" and "over" and that the we were no long allowed on the premises. I would think the later statement says it all and is why we went ahead and filed because it seems we are "terminated". A pre-trail has been set for the attorney's to meet and discuss? I do hope some type of resolution can be settled at this pre-trial? As others have posted about filinig seperate claims, I kinda wish we did and don't know if we can change at this point? Any thoughts on this, thanks again everyone.