My Neighborhood Covenant wasn't disclosed at closing.

[Alabama Chicken Guy]

Jurisdiction

Alabama

I bought my property from a builder in a sub-division that did not have an HOA. That was one of the key selling points for this house. At no time during the buying process was it disclosed that the neighbor hood had a covenant, and the covenant wasn't part of the deed. When I signed for the house there wasn't a declaration page to sign and the disclosure didn't mention a covenant. My question is, why am I held liable for something I had no idea existed until I was in violation of it and forced comply? How does a covenant hold so much power over my piece of land and is it worth it to go after the builder to get compensated for my losses? I thought living in the south would be different and less encumbering than some of the other places I have lived, but it seems all cities are alike. There is always someone looking to use their influence and money to force others to follow their rules. The covenant was originally for 25 years, but it seems it will continue forever because they put a stipulation that in it that it will renew for 10 years at a time until changed or disbanded by the neighborhood. Does this mean it will just go on indefinitely? As it turns out, yesterday was 35 years since it was filed. I guess another question I have is can I still seek to petition the neighborhood to change it, or did that have to be done before the 10 year interval (yesterday)?

 

[adjusterjack]

When did you buy your house?

How did you learn of this "covenant"?

 

[army judge]

My question is, why am I held liable for something I had no idea existed until I was in violation of it and forced comply?

Had you retained the services of a real estate attorney to represent and protect your interests during the buying and closing process, you would NOT find yourself surprised, put upon, and under the TOTAL control of a "Nazi styled" HOA.

Never trust the representations of the seller as enough for you (the prospective purchaser) to make purchase decisions.

Never sign any legal document of IMPORTANCE without having the document(s) reviewed and approved by YOUR attorney!

As far as what you can do today about the predicament in which you seem ensnared, consult and then retain an attorney to guide, advise, and protect you.

I almost forgot about one final option available to you today.

You can disrobe, bend over, grab your ankles, and enjoy the reamings that will regularly be provided by the "Nazi like" dictators that comprise the HOA board, as well as the community members who have grown quite fond of the regular "reamings".

 

[Alabama Chicken Guy]

When did you buy your house?

How did you learn of this "covenant"?

I bought this house in 2019, and I learned of the covenant by way of city counsel meeting. We have had Chickens on our property for close to a year now and one of our neighbors called the city on us. Now I have made a lot of mistakes on this one, but this one wasn't due to lack of research. Before we bought the chickens I search for city rules and regulations on having poultry on our property. I can even say that I didn't find the answer I wanted and stopped looking. No, I cross-referenced and re-worded the question to make sure I wasn't missing something. All I found was in the city of Dothan Chickens are allowed to be kept on your property and there wasn't a ban on roosters. Well that apparently isn't all the there is to it. The code was cited and and someone from the city came out to see if we had chickens or not. Now it turns out there are agricultural zones and the same rules don't apply to each zone. Literally 2 houses behind mine is where the no restrictions zone starts, but our zone requires and exception be filed with the city and decided upon by the city counsel. So I filed a request for exception. The city sent out notices to my 2 next door neighbors and the neighbors across the street who had no issues with us having chickens, and added it to the agenda for the next meeting 12/1/2021. While I was out of town for thanksgiving, a neighbor 4 houses down to my left went door to door with a petition against my chickens. 12 of the 40 households signed it. At the meeting my wife presented our defense of the chickens and then this neighbor brought forth the petition, a picture taken from on my property of the chickens, a failed attempt at recording my roosters crowing, and the covenant.
The committee didn't even allow my wife to speak again to defend claims made by the neighbor. All of this started with a call to the city. There wasn't a notice given to us. No face to face interaction with the neighbor. Nothing. I know that's not required, but most decent people would come and talk about an issue with the individuals causing the issue. The hardest part of this is that if the covenant was enough to justify no chickens, why did they drag this into a meeting with the city counsel. It doesn't make sense. We haven't had any issues with any of our neighbors at all. We greet everyone who walks by our house, and none of them ever approached us with any concern. I have had to rehome my chickens and yes it might be a little crazy, but they were a part of the family. This is way more than I was ever expecting to put on here, but it feels good to let out all the frustration on this page. Bottom line is, our chickens weren't hurting anyone. If they didn't like the crowing of the roosters why didn't they just come and say something. I would have given them up if I could keep my hens. They didn't smell and if I didn't have the roosters you never would have known we had chickens. You couldn't see them from the road unless you were on the road behind my house which is a busy street with no sidewalks, and to get a good look you would have to come onto my property.

 

[Alabama Chicken Guy]

Had you retained the services of a real estate attorney to represent and protect your interests during the buying and closing process, you would NOT find yourself surprised, put upon, and under the TOTAL control of a "Nazi styled" HOA.

Never trust the representations of the seller as enough for you (the prospective purchaser) to make purchase decisions.

Never sign any legal document of IMPORTANCE without have the document(s) reviewed and approved by YOUR attorney!

As far as what you can do today about the predicament in which you seem ensnared, consult and then retain an attorney to guide, advise, and protect you.

I almost forgot about one final option available to you today.

You can bend forward, disrobe, grab your ankles, and enjoy the reamings that will regularly be provided by the "Nazi like" dictators that comprise the HOA board, as well as the community members who have grown quite fond of the regular "reamings".

View attachment 3512

I don't have an HOA, just a Karen who lives down the street and thinks the neighborhood is hers.

 

[welkin]

Are you confusing a covenant with zoning ordinances? Not the same by any means.

 

[adjusterjack]

This "covenant" you've been referring to. Can you upload a copy so we can review it?

 

[Disabled Vet]

Are you confusing a covenant with zoning ordinances? Not the same by any means.

I would assume it is a covenant he is speaking of. reason is because most covenants have a time frame. then they renew for 10 years unless they are changed by property owners. the way he described it, it sounds like a covenant.

 

[flyingron]

Alas, even if there was an HOA you're out of luck. HOAs are loosely regulated in Alabama and there's no obligation of disclosure of rules/covenants unlike some other states.

It's up to you to do your do diligence. Understand you won't ever typically find this in a "DEED". A deep is just a mechanism to covey an owners interest to another. You need to do a full historical title search to find out what actual ownership interests there are and any covenants, easements, or other encumbrances there.

I take it you didn't have owner's title insurance. I wouldn't even take a gift of property from my sainted aunt without owner's title insurance. Even then it might not help you. If you did have it, I'd check that.

Note that the fact that others are in violation doesn't necessarily mean you are not in violation. You mention "code," however. That's distinct from a covenant. If you are inviolation of a "code" you are in violation of the law. Again, there's no obligation of codes being disclosed to you.

About the only recourse you might have is if the previous owners were also violating the same code, knew that what they were doing was a violation, and failed to disclose that. Otherwise, any representations made (unless in writing) are spurious.

 

[welkin]

I would assume it is a covenant he is speaking of. reason is because most covenants have a time frame. then they renew for 10 years unless they are changed by property owners. the way he described it, it sounds like a covenant.

The reason I posed the question is because of OP posting the following:

I bought this house in 2019, and I learned of the covenant by way of city counsel meeting. We have had Chickens on our property for close to a year now and one of our neighbors called the city on us. Now I have made a lot of mistakes on this one, but this one wasn't due to lack of research. Before we bought the chickens I search for city rules and regulations on having poultry on our property. I can even say that I didn't find the answer I wanted and stopped looking. No, I cross-referenced and re-worded the question to make sure I wasn't missing something. All I found was in the city of Dothan Chickens are allowed to be kept on your property and there wasn't a ban on roosters. Well that apparently isn't all the there is to it. The code was cited and someone from the city came out to see if we had chickens or not. Now it turns out there are agricultural zones and the same rules don't apply to each zone.

Sounds like a zoning issue to me.

What once might have been a covenant between a seller and a buyer of property would be superseded by the passage of zoning laws established by a local jurisdiction or when the covenant is found to be unconstitutional like something saying that you can't sell to black people.

There are covenants in the original deed to my property that are completely unconstitutional and cannot be enforced as a matter of law today.

A covenant is nothing more than a contract. Since when do city counsels get involved in contract disputes?

 

[adjusterjack]

What once might have been a covenant between a seller and a buyer of property would be superseded by the passage of zoning laws established by a local jurisdiction

To clarify, zoning laws may be stricter than the deed restrictions but not less strict.

Example: If zoning laws allow me to build a garage in my back yard but the deed restrictions say no garage in the back yard, the end result is no garage.

If zoning laws allow a 3 car garage and the deed restrictions allow only a 2 car garage then the end result is a 2 car garage.

If zoning laws allow only a 2 car garage and deed restrictions allow a 3 car garage, the zoning law trumps the deed restrictions.

 

[flyingron]

Or properly, you're bound by the most restrictive of either of them.

 

[retic]

A covenant is nothing more than a contract. Since when do city counsels get involved in contract disputes?

Maybe it's a city ordinance and not zoning?

Either way it's public information so I don't think the seller needs to disclose it. If you want to raise chickens then get your neighbors together and push to have the zoning or the city ordinance changed.

 

[welkin]

Maybe it's a city ordinance and not zoning?

Either way it's public information so I don't think the seller needs to disclose it. If you want to raise chickens then get your neighbors together and push to have the zoning or the city ordinance changed.

Zoning laws (or code) are codified as ordinances.

 

[welkin]

Or properly, you're bound by the most restrictive of either of them.

So if there once was a covenant that said you can have chickens on your property and then a zoning ordinance establishes agricultural zones where you can have chickens and your property is not in one of those zones, you can't have chickens.

 

[Zigner]

Zoning laws (or code) are codified as ordinances.

Better way to say it is simply to call them "zoning ordinances".

 

[adjusterjack]

So if there once was a covenant that said you can have chickens on your property and then a zoning ordinance establishes agricultural zones where you can have chickens and your property is not in one of those zones, you can't have chickens.

The chickens will have to cross the road to get to the agricultural zones.

 

[zddoodah]

I bought my property from a builder in a sub-division that did not have an HOA. That was one of the key selling points for this house. At no time during the buying process was it disclosed that the neighbor hood had a covenant, and the covenant wasn't part of the deed.

Did the seller affirmatively represent that there was NO covenant? Did the title report you obtained before buying the property not disclose the covenant? You did obtain a title report and a policy of title insurance, right?

My question is, why am I held liable for something I had no idea existed until I was in violation of it and forced comply?

Being held liable by whom? Forced to comply with what?

The covenant was originally for 25 years, but it seems it will continue forever because they put a stipulation that in it that it will renew for 10 years at a time until changed or disbanded by the neighborhood. Does this mean it will just go on indefinitely?

"Until changed or disbanded by the neighborhood" seems pretty clear. Of course, I assume that's not the actual wording.

can I still seek to petition the neighborhood to change it, or did that have to be done before the 10 year interval (yesterday)

If a 10-year renewal recently occurred, then it will be in place until that renewal runs out.

I agree with those who have indicated this sounds more like a zoning issue. The city would not normally have any involvement in enforcing restrictive covenants.

 

[flyingron]

So if there once was a covenant that said you can have chickens on your property and then a zoning ordinance establishes agricultural zones where you can have chickens and your property is not in one of those zones, you can't have chickens.

Unless you are in a rare case where the ordinance specifically preempts things, you can't have chickens.